New major problem with current direction of development

[WowIsDead64]

It's not 100% guaranteed every time but keep doing random dungeons, LFR, callings, mythics, battlegrounds dungeon quests, Bolvar quests, weekly world bosses or raids and you'll earn renown. Don't forget you also have to complete any regular renown quests from your Covenant too.

At least things like callings and quests show in advance, whether they will grant Renown or not, so I can decide not to do them. LFR isn't option for me, as it requires 170ilvl and obviously I don't have it at low Renown levels. And dungeons don't show, if they'll grant Renown or not. I just hate such systems. You waste your effort and there is no guarantee, that it will pay off. For example there can be hidden time-gated Renown cap, i.e. I'll do 100500 dungeons and will get nothing anyway. I just don't want to risk this way.

P.S. Is there any addon, that would allow me to rate WQs, i.e. set 1..5 stars rating, so I would know, what WQ I should do and what shouldn't. Problem with WQs - is that they have RNG rewards assigned to them, while having different difficulties, that usually don't match. For example just yesterday this WQ granted 105 anima, but now just 35. There are many of them. It's hard to remember them all. Remember, which ones are worth doing and which ones aren't.

[cparle87]

Flying is very important. I do Revendreth campaign now and it's Suramar 2.0 navigation hell, where anti-daze is 100% mandatory. Flying will help a lot there. Plus Maw, where avoiding overtuned mobs is very important, I said before. But Maw isn't going to have flying. And it's problem. It should become 100% optional then. Not mandatory for leveling + mandatory for campaign, that is base xpack's content and can't be avoided. It's easier to avoid whole game, i.e. stay unsubbed.

Put on the anti daze equipment, and learn where the NUMBEROUS ramps, elevators, and bat statues are.

- - - Updated - - -

At least things like callings and quests show in advance, whether they will grant Renown or not, so I can decide not to do them. LFR isn't option for me, as it requires 170ilvl and obviously I don't have it at low Renown levels. And dungeons don't show, if they'll grant Renown or not. I just hate such systems. You waste your effort and there is no guarantee, that it will pay off. For example there can be hidden time-gated Renown cap, i.e. I'll do 100500 dungeons and will get nothing anyway. I just don't want to risk this way.

P.S. Is there any addon, that would allow me to rate WQs, i.e. set 1..5 stars rating, so I would know, what WQ I should do and what shouldn't. Problem with WQs - is that they have RNG rewards assigned to them, while having different difficulties, that usually don't match. For example just yesterday this WQ granted 105 anima, but now just 35. There are many of them. It's hard to remember them all. Remember, which ones are worth doing and which ones aren't.

The only time you can't get catchup renown is when you have a standard method of getting renown, such as the anima/souls weeklies, or campaign quests. I swapped covenants on a Tuesday, got to 7 on that day. Then hit a dry spell where nothing I did gave me renown. Was still 7 when I logged in Saturday. Got one renown from a dungeon, which unlocked a campaign which I did, more dungeons, more campaign, rinse and repeat. Was 24 when I went to bed Saturday. There's no "hidden time gated renown cap" that's just you strawmanning hoping someone who doesn't know better will believe you and come to share in your hatred of the game you're addicted to.

[WowIsDead64]

The only time you can't get catchup renown is when you have a standard method of getting renown, such as the anima/souls weeklies, or campaign quests. I swapped covenants on a Tuesday, got to 7 on that day. Then hit a dry spell where nothing I did gave me renown. Was still 7 when I logged in Saturday. Got one renown from a dungeon, which unlocked a campaign which I did, more dungeons, more campaign, rinse and repeat. Was 24 when I went to bed Saturday. There's no "hidden time gated renown cap" that's just you strawmanning hoping someone who doesn't know better will believe you and come to share in your hatred of the game you're addicted to.

It's good thing, if Renown catch-up system doesn't have hidden cap. Because there were moments in the past, when I definitely encountered that "no matter, if you try to do more content to increase your chances to get RNG reward - we won't give you till some pre-defined time anyway".

[EasyE]

Dont ever do Revendreath then, the ending quest for them is the SAME COPY pasta as maldraxxus.

[cparle87]

It's good thing, if Renown catch-up system doesn't have hidden cap. Because there were moments in the past, when I definitely encountered that "no matter, if you try to do more content to increase your chances to get RNG reward - we won't give you till some pre-defined time anyway".

Do you have an examples, or are you just going to use some vague, waves your hand and tell me to look around and I'll see it argument that can't be beaten because it can't be defined or discussed.

Btw, are you aware that with your name and your posting history you're like the kid below on average 1.5 times per day for the past near six years?

https://www.google.com/search?q=stop..._xi03r0lKGzfjM

[SirBeef]

Is this primarily a flying whine thread?

Because this game has more difficulty settings than ever.

15 dungeon difficulty levels (and more for fun) ontop of the base normal, heroic, and mythic-0
4 raid difficulties
8 Torghast layers plus twisted corridors

It has everything from braindead simple to face melting hard.

Also, what are you talking about with BFA's "no catchup model?" It had tons of catchup. Catchup has been around in earnest since the IoQ patch in TBC when they made a new 5 man and new badge gear equal or better than T5. The players want it.

All he does is whine. Plus, look at his name.

[huth]

Put on the anti daze equipment, and learn where the NUMBEROUS ramps, elevators, and bat statues are.

One of the reasons i can't stand when somebody asks where something is, and all anybody responds with is coordinates. Yeah, sure, that defines the spot, but it doesn't tell you how to get there and constantly relying on GPS addons means you'll never learn how to properly navigate.

[WowIsDead64]

Tried to do 5ppls, but current M+ mentality, that is brought everywhere, even to normal dungeons, is just unbearable for me. Joined group between 1st and 2nd boss. Guys tried to skip mobs, but failed, so we wiped. Then I realized, that they skipped so much, that I just don't know, how to get back to our wipe location without pulling anything else. This "skip as much, as possible" mentality just isn't fun for me. Back in my times 5ppls were about "clearing" them. It was actually safer and therefore faster. Because this 5ppls are so easy, that it's faster to simply AOE things, than to risk and skip them. And AOEing things was actually fun. Time running mentality just isn't for me, sorry.

[Dhrizzle]

Tried to do 5ppls, but current M+ mentality, that is brought everywhere, even to normal dungeons, is just unbearable for me. Joined group between 1st and 2nd boss. Guys tried to skip mobs, but failed, so we wiped. Then I realized, that they skipped so much, that I just don't know, how to get back to our wipe location without pulling anything else. This "skip as much, as possible" mentality just isn't fun for me. Back in my times 5ppls were about "clearing" them. It was actually safer and therefore faster. Because this 5ppls are so easy, that it's faster to simply AOE things, than to risk and skip them. And AOEing things was actually fun. Time running mentality just isn't for me, sorry.

I kinda agree, not about AoEing things being that fun, I much preferred nuking priority targets, but I'm not a big fan of how the current crop of dungeons seem to have been designed with a lot of obscure routes to skip large numbers of mobs. It was particularly annoying when I came to play my prot warrior alt. Admittedly one group was lovely - very patient with a friendly DK marking which groups to take next - but others have been impatient and in one case inept which is very much discouraging me from going into heroics.

[cparle87]

One of the reasons i can't stand when somebody asks where something is, and all anybody responds with is coordinates. Yeah, sure, that defines the spot, but it doesn't tell you how to get there and constantly relying on GPS addons means you'll never learn how to properly navigate.

Blizzard has even gone so far as to put in their own map ping feature ingame, making coordinate mods pretty much obsolete. There's really no excuse for the elevators, though, they're bright red and on the zone map. Ramps and the bat statues you just need to learn. There's like 4 leaving the town for the four corners, some back from the low ground to town, from the ember ward back to Sinfall, and from ember ward back up to the castle.

[huth]

Blizzard has even gone so far as to put in their own map ping feature ingame, making coordinate mods pretty much obsolete. There's really no excuse for the elevators, though, they're bright red and on the zone map. Ramps and the bat statues you just need to learn. There's like 4 leaving the town for the four corners, some back from the low ground to town, from the ember ward back to Sinfall, and from ember ward back up to the castle.

Most importantly, from the Darkhaven Flight Master right to the Umbrella WQ.

[munkeyinorbit]

Tried to do 5ppls, but current M+ mentality, that is brought everywhere, even to normal dungeons, is just unbearable for me. Joined group between 1st and 2nd boss. Guys tried to skip mobs, but failed, so we wiped. Then I realized, that they skipped so much, that I just don't know, how to get back to our wipe location without pulling anything else. This "skip as much, as possible" mentality just isn't fun for me. Back in my times 5ppls were about "clearing" them. It was actually safer and therefore faster. Because this 5ppls are so easy, that it's faster to simply AOE things, than to risk and skip them. And AOEing things was actually fun. Time running mentality just isn't for me, sorry.

Playing the game isn't for you either. All you have done in this thread is lie. You haven't done anything. You haven't done your campaign. You haven't done WQ. You haven't done The Maw. You have no gear and you won't do dungeons. All of this you have actually said in this thread. If you're not actually playing the game then why are you subbed? I don't actually believe you are subbed and your arguments about why you don't like the game are just echos of what people have been saying for 15 years.

What is the point of this thread? Is it quitters remorse? Do you have some need to get other people to hate the game like you do? Get over it. The vast majority of the player base like the game. There are valid concerns that have been brought up on this site and blizzard are likely to fix them in 9.1 but the game hasn't been this healthy since Cata.

[cparle87]

Most importantly, from the Darkhaven Flight Master right to the Umbrella WQ.

Yeah, that was one of the 4 leaving the towerpart. There's another to another spot by Nathria, and one towards the crypts where the Avowed grinding is. And one down in the pit back up to where the umbrella WQ ends. Some lesser known ones are right above the tea party WQ will take you up to the burned ramparts FP, and one at the chain ghosts and light elemental pet battle will get you back to Sinfall.

[WowIsDead64]

Playing the game isn't for you either. All you have done in this thread is lie. You haven't done anything. You haven't done your campaign. You haven't done WQ. You haven't done The Maw. You have no gear and you won't do dungeons. All of this you have actually said in this thread. If you're not actually playing the game then why are you subbed? I don't actually believe you are subbed and your arguments about why you don't like the game are just echos of what people have been saying for 15 years.

What is the point of this thread? Is it quitters remorse? Do you have some need to get other people to hate the game like you do? Get over it. The vast majority of the player base like the game. There are valid concerns that have been brought up on this site and blizzard are likely to fix them in 9.1 but the game hasn't been this healthy since Cata.

Yeah, it's problem with both some Wow players and even some devs. If you don't understand motivations of other players, then it doesn't automatically mean, that they lie.

[Naiattavain]

i think legion to bfa and now was bad design.

[Big Thanks]

I dont know if im depressed or something but i feel like nothing really matters and people will never be happy with the game by their own fault.

WoW gameplay is nothing more than a "punching bag with meaning and purpose" (mobs to kill with a reward and progression system)
And what happens when you "finish" your reward structure and progression? You are back to having no meaning and purpose to your punching bag.

So...

I think this means...the journey is the most important part...together with the sense of acomplishment of completing said journey...and then...GAME OVER

-----

The problem i still see is that players are NEVER happy about the gameplay if they dont have a progression system/reward.
Can WoW be played as if it was a League of Legends or a Call of Duty?
It seems that for the people complaining...it CANT (for them)

-----

I personally reached the conclusion nothing really matters and you better start enjoying the small things in MMORPGs.
For me is "roleplaying" and doing stupid crap with friends or people you met ingame.

[WowIsDead64]

The problem i still see is that players are NEVER happy about the gameplay if they dont have a progression system/reward.
Can WoW be played as if it was a League of Legends or a Call of Duty?
It seems that for the people complaining...it CANT (for them)

Don't compare PVP games with PVE ones. Again, there just a few motivations to play games. Exploration, achievements (not achievements themselves, but achieving something - like completing game for example), competition (PVE progression, PVP), socialization. May be some others, like self-expression. Motivations depend on personal preferences of every player, but player can initially have all of them. Problem is - different motivations last for different time. Exploration fades first. Achievements fade next. Etc. And MMOs are about providing all that motivations in order to keep players playing for as long, as possible. But you can't expect content to last for infinite amount of time. You also can't expect patch/xpack releases to fully reset that motivations to their initial state. For example player explores world for 1-2 weeks, but then it's no longer interesting for him and it becomes less and less interesting with every subsequent patch/xpack, because player gets, that some things are repetitive and obvious. Or sometimes player agrees to grind something for the first time, but don't want to repeat this route again, again and again. At some point player chooses things, he likes the most. And developer have 2 options here. Alienate that player and make him quit game forever. Or just give in and let him play his way. That's it.

I'm not new player. Yeah, when I was new, I tried different kinds of content. Just for the sake of trying. Even PVP and HM raids. But at some point I realized, that I shouldn't try to overcome myself. I should play, what I like. I don't actually demand too much. It's just Blizzard, who are too stubborn to realize it. Realize, that they lose players due to stupid reasons.

[Wuusah]

Visions were never intended to be about exploration.

What do you mean? You didn't explore these rare places that you never get to outside of visions?

[Caerrona]

Don't compare PVP games with PVE ones. Again, there just a few motivations to play games. Exploration, achievements (not achievements themselves, but achieving something - like completing game for example), competition (PVE progression, PVP), socialization. May be some others, like self-expression. Motivations depend on personal preferences of every player, but player can initially have all of them. Problem is - different motivations last for different time. Exploration fades first. Achievements fade next. Etc. And MMOs are about providing all that motivations in order to keep players playing for as long, as possible. But you can't expect content to last for infinite amount of time. You also can't expect patch/xpack releases to fully reset that motivations to their initial state. For example player explores world for 1-2 weeks, but then it's no longer interesting for him and it becomes less and less interesting with every subsequent patch/xpack, because player gets, that some things are repetitive and obvious. Or sometimes player agrees to grind something for the first time, but don't want to repeat this route again, again and again. At some point player chooses things, he likes the most. And developer have 2 options here. Alienate that player and make him quit game forever. Or just give in and let him play his way. That's it.

I'm not new player. Yeah, when I was new, I tried different kinds of content. Just for the sake of trying. Even PVP and HM raids. But at some point I realized, that I shouldn't try to overcome myself. I should play, what I like. I don't actually demand too much. It's just Blizzard, who are too stubborn to realize it. Realize, that they lose players due to stupid reasons.

Yeah but why should they make the game for you? And not for me? Or bob? Or random poster #703932?

This is the game they made. Quit if you don't like it. I don't go and voluntarily pay money to a restaurant I don't like then yell at them for not giving me something I do like.

I didn't enjoy or care for cata, so you know what I did...... drum roll...... I didn't play.

I played/did other shit and the world of warcraft was still spinning. No one cares about your sub.

[dewd]

starting with bfa they deliberately made the game worse for the sake of everything taking longer. as if the subscription is minute/hour based and not a fixed 30 days. self sabotage at its finest

its so many little annoying things that add up to just hating even logging in