Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Fahrad Wagner]

*snip*

I really like your approach on this. I understand that it would take a ton of resources though... but eh, a man can hope right?

I would be more than fine if we get those meta-zones in patches to give Blizzard more time to work on them. In the meantime though, I think they should not be available at all, instead of having old zones co-existing with new zones which destroys the immersion. Just put the whole of Cataclysm Azeroth in the Caverns of Time and rebuild from scratch. And if only a third of Azeroth is available at first: then good, it will create a sense of mystery again to a world we now know by heart. Rediscovering Khaz Modan or Stranglethorn Jungle in an updated, HD experience is much more exciting to me than any "new zone" would ever be, and the game really needs it. I remember Gilneas when it was just a closed giant gate south of Silverpine Forest, and man, that was something: because it added an element of mystery ot the game and made us wonder: what's going on there?

A timeskip would also help with explaining why some zones are unavailable at launch. It could bring some potential new plots and storylines such as the light inquisition in Lordaeron, political struggle in Khaz Modan leading to the whole kingdom shutting its borders until patch 10.X, pirate and Gurubashi raids in Stranglethorn, Qiraji and Titan-affiliated forces in Southern Kalimdor, etc.

There is so much to do with the current state of the world, and so many loose ends and races which have never really been used to their fullest potential: ogres, centaurs, high elves & void elves, furbolgs, and so many others.

BfA has turned the world into even more of a mess, but I think all things considered it's a good thing as it has allowed the world to move forward in terms of storylines and as it planted the seeds for future developments and a potential world revamp. Now I can only hope Blizzard will one day address the elephant in the room... the game has aged terribly and a fresh start would be more than welcome.

[Dracullus]

In the meantime though, I think they should not be available at all, instead of having old zones co-existing with new zones which destroys the immersion. Just put the whole of Cataclysm Azeroth in the Caverns of Time and rebuild from scratch. And if only a third of Azeroth is available at first: then good, it will create a sense of mystery again to a world we now know by heart. Rediscovering Khaz Modan or Stranglethorn Jungle in an updated, HD experience is much more exciting to me than any "new zone" would ever be, and the game really needs it. I remember Gilneas when it was just a closed giant gate south of Silverpine Forest, and man, that was something: because it added an element of mystery ot the game and made us wonder: what's going on there?

Sure, they could also made "Kalimdor expansion" and "EK Expansion", but doing it all for 10.0 would be.. something. Of course new world would be completely separate from Cata. Whole process should start from remaking Stormwind and Orgrimmar (or Silvermoon if they start from EK expansion) and redirect new characters there.

Mystery is key to keep things interesting, including life (which has basically archetype of mystery: "what happens after death?") and I agree that it has to grow in us for years. Imo that's my point why SL hype was relatively low.

Naturally final clash with Burning Legion, represented (by I dare to say) strongest image in WoW history - felstorm above Tomb of Sargeras (also place left to our imagination for years) is more interesting than completely new zone of Shabaluba, not matter how beautiful it is. We imagined how it will work for years (member that fake leaks with whole WoW roadmap and Burning Citadel as final WoW raid for level 100?).

That's why SL, although better structured than Legion, doesn't have that kick and hype. Especially world, it's just different dimension we didn't have clue about. Story has moments when it starts to explain - YEP - mystery about Arthas, Lich King and Nathrezim. So SL still has potential.

They do far better job with Void Lords, we had just name drop 6 years ago, and since then only few more hints, but our imagination already started working and they won't feel bland like (currently) Jailer when we finally will see them act.

[Weeps]

And what exactly makes you think that is the case?

It is a place where "souls" go in order to be judged. One covenant uses souls as batteries. One uses them to nurture nature (fae), etc.

It is literally just called Shadow Lands. It is the "in-between."

Bwonsamdi is the loa of death realm. We go there by using a mask. That... is the final realm.

We go in and we rescue souls or release them. Where do they go when they are released? Final death, where Bwonsamdi resides.

[Le Conceptuel]

It is a place where "souls" go in order to be judged. One covenant uses souls as batteries. One uses them to nurture nature (fae), etc.

It is literally just called Shadow Lands. It is the "in-between."

Bwonsamdi is the loa of death realm. We go there by using a mask. That... is the final realm.

We go in and we rescue souls or release them. Where do they go when they are released? Final death, where Bwonsamdi resides.

Bwonsamdi's realm is actually apparently connected to Ardenweald. Also, he's an Azerothian Loa - why would he have ultimate power over death? And he also seems to be subservient to both Mueh'zala and the Winter Queen.

[Makorus]

It is a place where "souls" go in order to be judged. One covenant uses souls as batteries. One uses them to nurture nature (fae), etc.

It is literally just called Shadow Lands. It is the "in-between."

Bwonsamdi is the loa of death realm. We go there by using a mask. That... is the final realm.

We go in and we rescue souls or release them. Where do they go when they are released? Final death, where Bwonsamdi resides.

What?

That's completely wrong. Fresh souls get ferried to Oribos by the Kyrians and then get judged by the Arbiter and then go to their final destination, i.e. Bastion, Maldraxxus etc..

Once they die there, they are dead.

De Other Side is just a pocket dimension within Ardenweald (maybe?) where Troll souls might end up.

[Raetary]

It is a place where "souls" go in order to be judged.

The Shadowlands don't judge the Souls, the Arbiter does, and for that to happen the souls have to be brought to Oribos.
Any and every mortal that dies ends up in the Shadowlands.

One covenant uses souls as batteries. One uses them to nurture nature (fae), etc.

Covenants using souls in certain ways is absolutely not relevant to whether the Shadowlands are "the real afterlife" or not.

It is literally just called Shadow Lands. It is the "in-between."

...What?

Bwonsamdi is the loa of death realm. We go there by using a mask. That... is the final realm.

Bwonsamdi is an Azerothian loa, who has his little pocket dimension where he stores the souls of his troll devotees and sacrifices.
The mask we interacted with early on has absolutely no bearing on anything, it was just a tool Bwon used to talk to us from a distance.

We go in and we rescue souls or release them. Where do they go when they are released?

Every soul we rescue from the Maw is just released into the zone of whatever covenant we picked.
They don't go anywhere.

[Wangming]

De Other Side is just a pocket dimension within Ardenweald (maybe?) where Troll souls might end up.

Kinda offtopic but the way the Shadowlands is structured is kinda weird. If you are nice, you go to Bastion. If you have sins but not too much, you go to Revendreth. If you have a strong drive or whatever you go to Maldraxxus. If you are an irredeemable asshat you go to the Maw. If you are in any way connected to the Wild Gods or Elune, you got to Ardenweald or one of its pocket dimensions. And if you are a demon you go to the Twisting Nether and wait for respawn there.

[Makorus]

Kinda offtopic but the way the Shadowlands is structured is kinda weird. If you are nice, you go to Bastion. If you have sins but not too much, you go to Revendreth. If you have a strong drive or whatever you go to Maldraxxus. If you are an irredeemable asshat you go to the Maw. If you are in any way connected to the Wild Gods or Elune, you got to Ardenweald or one of its pocket dimensions. And if you are a demon you go to the Twisting Nether and wait for respawn there.

I mean, not really.

Thats what it feels like, but the fact that there are supposedly infinite realms makes it so that you only go to a certain place if you are 100% aligned with the ideals.

Now, the fact that the Forsworn exist to begin with kind of throws a wrench into that, but atleast thats what Blizzard was aiming for.

[Weeps]

Bwonsamdi's realm is actually apparently connected to Ardenweald. Also, he's an Azerothian Loa - why would he have ultimate power over death? And he also seems to be subservient to both Mueh'zala and the Winter Queen.

It’s not connected anywhere in the sense you believe. He is the Loa of Death. He has his own rea in which he stays in most of the time.

He simply has temple in Nazmir. He came to Ardenweald to ask Winter Queen for help.

There is a mask you are given to be able to go into his realm.

Troll King in BFA made a deal with Bwonsamdi

Bwonsamdi’s realm is separate from Shadow Lands.

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The Shadowlands don't judge the Souls, the Arbiter does, and for that to happen the souls have to be brought to Oribos.
Any and every mortal that dies ends up in the Shadowlands.


Covenants using souls in certain ways is absolutely not relevant to whether the Shadowlands are "the real afterlife" or not.

...What?



Bwonsamdi is an Azerothian loa, who has his little pocket dimension where he stores the souls of his troll devotees and sacrifices.
The mask we interacted with early on has absolutely no bearing on anything, it was just a tool Bwon used to talk to us from a distance.



Every soul we rescue from the Maw is just released into the zone of whatever covenant we picked.
They don't go anywhere.

He is not an azerothian loa. He is loa of death. He had temples by Trolls. Does not mean he is azerothian. It is a mere plane of existence that which Bwonsamdi collects from. If he was Azerothian, he wouldn’t have the ability to traverse multiple different planes of existence. He is death. Bound to no place but his own

You are simply wrong on many counts.

Look up his Wiki page.

I didn’t say Shadowlands judges. It is limbo. It is not true death realm. The areas are keeping souls to serve their ends.

That is not the final realm.

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What?

That's completely wrong. Fresh souls get ferried to Oribos by the Kyrians and then get judged by the Arbiter and then go to their final destination, i.e. Bastion, Maldraxxus etc..

Once they die there, they are dead.

De Other Side is just a pocket dimension within Ardenweald (maybe?) where Troll souls might end up.

Wrong again.

https://i.imgur.com/NEy6usN.jpg

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Between each realm is a cloudy space known as the In-Between which was once rich with streams of anima connecting the different domains, but the current anima drought has caused the realms to become cut off from one another, breeding fear and mistrust among the inhabitants.[8]

Souls are not necessarily permanently stuck in their assigned afterlives. When the machinery of Death functioned the way it was supposed to, souls who had completed obligations in one realm sometimes had the opportunity to travel to some of the other realms of the Shadowlands. For example, romantic partners who are initially sent to different realms may eventually find an afterlife they can share together.[10][13

Repeatedly you will see “shadow lands is ON THE EDGE of reality.”

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Bwonsamdi isn't that big of a character, Blizz stated originally he wasn't going to be in Shadowlands but due to how popular he was he got put in.

[Wangming]

I mean, not really.

Thats what it feels like, but the fact that there are supposedly infinite realms makes it so that you only go to a certain place if you are 100% aligned with the ideals.

Now, the fact that the Forsworn exist to begin with kind of throws a wrench into that, but atleast thats what Blizzard was aiming for.

Was aiming for. Well I'm sure Rise of Skywalker and Mulan weren't aimed to be cautionary tales against film making, but here we are. It's a really confusing realm. Buuut at least it leaves plenty of rooms for future content updates. I bet my stocks on us visiting at least two of those in the 9.x cycle.

And both Arthas and Garrosh will be included somehow.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Bwonsamdi is an Azerothian loa, who has his little pocket dimension where he stores the souls of his troll devotees and sacrifices.
The mask we interacted with early on has absolutely no bearing on anything, it was just a tool Bwon used to talk to us from a distance.

Yeah it's like a Loa cellphone lol

[Wangming]

Bwonsamdi isn't that big of a character, Blizz stated originally he wasn't going to be in Shadowlands but due to how popular he was he got put in.

Well Pandaren began as an April Fools joke and ended up having an expansion centered around them with probably the deepest lore of every other race.

[LemonDemonGirl]

It’s not connected anywhere in the sense you believe. He is the Loa of Death. He has his own rea in which he stays in most of the time.

He simply has temple in Nazmir. He came to Ardenweald to ask Winter Queen for help.

There is a mask you are given to be able to go into his realm.

Troll King in BFA made a deal with Bwonsamdi

Bwonsamdi’s realm is separate from Shadow Lands.

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He is not an azerothian loa. He is loa of death. He had temples by Trolls. Does not mean he is azerothian. It is a mere plane of existence that which Bwonsamdi collects from. If he was Azerothian, he wouldn’t have the ability to traverse multiple different planes of existence. He is death. Bound to no place but his own

He was born on Azeroth though. Whereever his parents are is still up for debate, but we now know that he was a former mortal troll.

I think there's just multiple entrances to De Other Side, and Ardenweald has one of them. Think of it as a cave with multiple entraces

[Weeps]

Bwonsamdi isn't that big of a character, Blizz stated originally he wasn't going to be in Shadowlands but due to how popular he was he got put in.

He gets more and more powerful the more souls he has.

[Raetary]

He gets more and more powerful the more souls he has.

So does literally everyone else.

[Weeps]

He was born on Azeroth though. Whereever his parents are is still up for debate, but we now know that he was a former mortal troll.

I think there's just multiple entrances to De Other Side, and Ardenweald has one of them. Think of it as a cave with multiple entraces

Ok I can accept that

[Raetary]

He is not an azerothian loa.

He quite literally is.
He was a troll priest that gained loa-hood by bargaining with Mueh'zala.

If he was Azerothian, he wouldn’t have the ability to traverse multiple different planes of existence.

What?
Yes, he fucking would.

Being Azerothian has absolutely no relevancy on whether someone can travel through dimensions or not.

[Weeps]

The maw is theoretically hell, clearly

The realms in between oribos and maw is what I perceive to be limbo

[LemonDemonGirl]

He quite literally is.
He was a troll priest that gained loa-hood by bargaining with Bwonsamdi.

Umm... I think you meant to say Mueh'zala?