Minimum Wage increase Good? Bad? Ugly?

[SirBeef]

This is such a bizarre thing to read as a non-US person.

We don't tip, ever, and everyone gets their service at the same speed. If not, the waiter simply gets fired if they can't perform their job.

I don't tip and I live in the US. I also haven't gone out to eat in over 20 years. I can my own food, more often better, for far less. I don't need the "experience" of restaurants either, so overrated.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Friendly reminder that Bezos grew his fortune by over $60 billion US in 2020, while people working for him were depending on food stamps. Let's also not forget that Amazon runs on the back of USPS and doesn't pay much for it- not even in terms of tax.

https://fortune.com/2020/10/07/billi...20-jeff-bezos/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...ps-in-9-states
https://thecounter.org/15-minimum-wa...art-mcdonalds/

$15 per hour minimum wage isn't even a lot, it's money that wouldn't hit the top end of Amazon at any significant percentage.
As some of these articles point out:
- Amazon and Bezos hardly pays tax.
- Amazon use USPS for next to no fees.
- Amazon workers are on food stamps in at least 9 US states (thousands and thousands of people).

The truth of the matter is that Amazon and Bezos gets amazong tax cuts from the US government ...then they get to use the US governments mail system for extremely cheap ...and to top it of Amazon workers have to turn to US government food stamps to not go into debt.
To me it sounds like American taxpayers are gifting Amazon all their success, while getting ZERO back for it.

[Raeph]

I think it is good but I do worry that in some areas it will artificially inflate wages and then people with low skills will be priced out of the job market as employers innovate some low skilled jobs away.

We have the opposite problem in my region of the US. Starting salary at the local Walmart and McDonalds is $12 an hour with your first wage increase after you finish your 90 day training period. Last time I checked Walmart had 30+ open positions, all levels including an Assistant manager, that were open for greater than six months. This was pre-pandemic.

The one thing stopping them filling positions was 8/10 people failed either drug test or background check.

Wages in many sectors could be higher, retain and hospitality are big ones, but from where I sit the major problem keeping people from earning higher wages is that a good portion of job seekers seem to think that "adulting" is something they don't have to care about, ever.

[Elegiac]

For example I would prefer to not be a waiter because there's a certain slavish quality to it where I would have to be highly attentive and responsive to customers in order to get a big tip

Man it's almost like a higher base pay would remove the need to be slavishly obsequious to the customers because their compensation wouldn't be contingent on tips.

Grats on refuting your own point, as said.

- - - Updated - - -

I think it is good but I do worry that in some areas it will artificially inflate wages and then people with low skills will be priced out of the job market as employers innovate some low skilled jobs away.

People say this but then they don't explain why they worry about it beyond "because" and then ignore all the evidence to the contrary anyway, so.

[Zan15]

Friendly reminder that Bezos grew his fortune by over $60 billion US in 2020, while people working for him were depending on food stamps. Let's also not forget that Amazon runs on the back of USPS and doesn't pay much for it- not even in terms of tax.

$15 per hour minimum wage isn't even a lot, it's money that wouldn't hit the top end of Amazon at any significant percentage.
As some of these articles point out:
- Amazon and Bezos hardly pays tax.
- Amazon use USPS for next to no fees.
- Amazon workers are on food stamps in at least 9 US states (thousands and thousands of people).

The truth of the matter is that Amazon and Bezos gets amazong tax cuts from the US government ...then they get to use the US governments mail system for extremely cheap ...and to top it of Amazon workers have to turn to US government food stamps to not go into debt.
To me it sounds like American taxpayers are gifting Amazon all their success, while getting ZERO back for it.

The USPS angle has been disproven over and over again even by the USPS. the handful of articles people use as sources of this also have been disproven over and over again by the USPS. There is a reason why the Trump Admin did nothing about it, because it wasn't true or a problem. They get to use it at the standard rates as everyone else, with the standard contract terms and agreements based on their size and volume.

Amazon is also getting the same tax cuts as every other corporation as far as the federal system goes, to call them out individually is silly. to use them as an example would have been more appropriate.

BTW the Walton Family worth at least $215 billion, increased by 20% in 2020. its been 15+ years of people pushing for min wage change using them as an example of how many Walmart employees on welfare. And still nothing has happened.


Also the 60 billion is not coming out of Amazon's pocket. Its paper worth based on stock.
Its not like Amazon has to find a way to give Bezos 60 billion and thus caused people to have shit pay and shit benefits.

[Elegiac]

BTW the Walton Family worth at least $215 billion, increased by 20% in 2020. its been 15+ years of people pushing for min wage change using them as an example of how many Walmart employees on welfare. And still nothing has happened.

Is your argument seriously that Amazon isn't a shit company because Walmart is also a shitty company, lol?

[Mihalik]

The whole "Minimum wage increase will destroy jobs" argument is basically the business world's equivalent of "But, think of the children!"

It's an irrelevant emotional appeal disconnected from reality.

[Elegiac]

The whole "Minimum wage increase will destroy jobs" argument is basically the business world's equivalent of "But, think of the children!"

It's an irrelevant emotional appeal disconnected from reality.

The same people who complain about the minimum wage destroying jobs will then immediately balk at the suggestion of reducing the working week to 30 hours, to boot.

[Mihalik]

sip

By the way. About your sig.

"Multiculturalism has failed!"....2 out of the 3 words that make up that statement in a Germanic language are drawn from French...a Romance language, and one is prefixed with a straight up Latin prefix. The irony in those 3 little words is like a layer cake.

[Zan15]

Is your argument seriously that Amazon isn't a shit company because Walmart is also a shitty company, lol?

Never said that, or even came close. My point was we are in a circle jerk because people vote against their own benefit especially in the case of min wage.


But honestly I don't think they are a shit company. Do you know how it was in warehouses before amazon came in?
No benefits, the lowest of the low pay, shit everything...
Amazon came in and drove up wages and offered benefits. Hardly an other warehouse type employer even came close before. Now its massive competition where ever there is an amazon warehouse. Amazon here by the airport starts at 16.00. The other warehouses in the area all are pushing higher wages because Amazon always gets first pick because of their name/powerful recruitment.


They might push the envelope for treatment of employees to a ridiculous detailed level but lets be real here its just amazon expecting 8 hours of work when you are scheduled for 8 hours of work. Any real abuse I have ever seen reported at amazon was at the local level and was not condoned or sanctioned by the corporation or its rules/regulations.


I think our tax system is a shit system.
I think our healthcare is a shit system.
I think our employee protections is a shit system
I think wage laws and minimums are shit.

Do i think amazon is a shit company because of this? Nah, they are just taking advantage of the system for max profit.
Same way i do on my taxes for mileage. My little sedan does not cost 57 cents a mile to operate but hell i sure take the 58 cents write off whenever i can!!
When my daughter comes to work with me to make some money, I expect her not to take 11 bathroom/smoke breaks and spend 45 minutes texting on the toilet!!!

Guess i am shit too?

[nonameelf]

Demand side economics works. Supply side economics doesn't.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

You ever heard of doing things right the first time so you don’t have to keep doing the same thing?

It was never going to be a one off win. It's going to be an ongoing fight.

It’s called insanity fighting to keep raising an arbitrary number rather than a COLA and percentage.

You can keep fighting for the perfect solution...but until you get it it...people will still be going to bed hungry. That's what happens when you let perfect become the enemy of good. $15/hr will help people out a lot while you keep fighting for more.

At some point progress has to look like something or it’s just insanity.

$15/hr min wage looks like something. It doesn't mean you stop there...you keep fighting to get COLA and percentage...and more. But $15/hr means less people go to bed hungry.

[Zan15]

Sad part is CA already proved there is a work around to minimum wage.

Just vote to force an entire section of the workforce to be classified as "independent contractors" and you no longer have to pay min wage!


People will laugh, but wait till this moves from ridesharing to warehouses to fast food to Walmart then to nursing to administrative staff to the general workforce......

Our state has seen multiple min wage increase but jobs like Ridesharing, newspaper delivery, food delivery, etc etc all have seen no wage increases and have actually seen it decrease because of inflation and reduced compensation by corporations.
And the state department of labors could give two shits. Hell they even declared newspaper delivery for every major outlet a salary position and it was illegal to employ them as IC's in 2006 but have done nothing about it.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Anyone who claims there would be mass unemployment and inflation:

1. Go look at the graph that shows US minimum wage increases over the years.
2. Overlay that map with an unemployment graph.
3. Overlay that map with inflation graph.
4. Realize just how much you've been tricked by conservative media over the years.
5. Pretend you saw nothing and go back to shaming minimum wage work.

[Sole-Warrior]

Bad idea, will only cause inflation IMO.
Just like rent control doesn't work and actually cause problems in the long run.
I think we should address the root causes of poverty.

[beanman12345]

Anyone who claims there would be mass unemployment and inflation:

1. Go look at the graph that shows US minimum wage increases over the years.
2. Overlay that map with an unemployment graph.
3. Overlay that map with inflation graph.
4. Realize just how much you've been tricked by conservative media over the years.
5. Pretend you saw nothing and go back to shaming minimum wage work.

exactly. can't fix stupidity.

[Sole-Warrior]

Anyone who claims there would be mass unemployment and inflation:

1. Go look at the graph that shows US minimum wage increases over the years.
2. Overlay that map with an unemployment graph.
3. Overlay that map with inflation graph.
4. Realize just how much you've been tricked by conservative media over the years.
5. Pretend you saw nothing and go back to shaming minimum wage work.

Correlation isn't causation dude... I don't know how to put it out there. But has the minimum wage DECREASED poverty?

- - - Updated - - -

Friendly reminder that Bezos grew his fortune by over $60 billion US in 2020, while people working for him were depending on food stamps. Let's also not forget that Amazon runs on the back of USPS and doesn't pay much for it- not even in terms of tax.

https://fortune.com/2020/10/07/billi...20-jeff-bezos/
https://www.foxbusiness.com/technolo...ps-in-9-states
https://thecounter.org/15-minimum-wa...art-mcdonalds/

$15 per hour minimum wage isn't even a lot, it's money that wouldn't hit the top end of Amazon at any significant percentage.
As some of these articles point out:
- Amazon and Bezos hardly pays tax.
- Amazon use USPS for next to no fees.
- Amazon workers are on food stamps in at least 9 US states (thousands and thousands of people).

The truth of the matter is that Amazon and Bezos gets amazong tax cuts from the US government ...then they get to use the US governments mail system for extremely cheap ...and to top it of Amazon workers have to turn to US government food stamps to not go into debt.
To me it sounds like American taxpayers are gifting Amazon all their success, while getting ZERO back for it.

I'm for a 20 dollar minimum wage for all these woke corporatists monopolies. Same goes for Facebook, Twitter, and other companies. They preach about being "woke", how about they act on what they advertise. But a high minimum wage will destroy small local businesses. Minimum wage should be industry specific, not universal. I don't see why the local restaurant should have to deal with a 15 dollar minimum wage.

[Shadowferal]

Correlation isn't causation dude... I don't know how to put it out there. But has the minimum wage DECREASED poverty?

It used to. Up until the early 70s a person could work a min wage job...and out of poverty. Heck, one could afford a decent apt off of a single 40hr paycheck.

[Endus]

Correlation isn't causation dude... I don't know how to put it out there. But has the minimum wage DECREASED poverty?

You really haven't bothered to look at history, like, at all, have you?

During the Industrial Revolution, it wasn't unusual for a family to have both parents working 14-16 hour days, 6-7 days a week, and making so little money that they could not afford to feed their children, and thus their children were forced to work starting at around 6-8 years old, or they wouldn't get fed.

That's what minimum wage keeps society away from. That kind of poverty. And the question as to whether it decreased it; that answer is an unequivocal and statistically obvious "yes".

Since the '30s, though, the minimum wage has been depressed and worked against consistently by right-wing views, and thus very little ground has been made up beyond that point, because right-wingers largely want a return to that level of abject human suffering and loss of dignity. It's a right-wing tentpole maxim, the use of human suffering to drive workers through duress.

[Zan15]

I'm for a 20 dollar minimum wage for all these woke corporatists monopolies. Same goes for Facebook, Twitter, and other companies. They preach about being "woke", how about they act on what they advertise. But a high minimum wage will destroy small local businesses. Minimum wage should be industry specific, not universal. I don't see why the local restaurant should have to deal with a 15 dollar minimum wage.

Or maybe those local small businesses should'nt have a business model that depends on paying someone in 2021 a 1970 wage....maybe?

Poor poor small businesses that mostly go out of business because of poor managment and bad decisions not wages. they just like to blame it on that