ION Answers the "Farming Legion Raids" in Shadowlands Question

[Excaliban]

It's disappointing to see how out of touch Ion is with the player base. I was still hoping for a proper legacy buff soon, but now I've lost that hope.

[Shyning]

So many people throw tantrums when they learn they might need to cooperate with other players in an MMO lol

[Syegfryed]

The fnny thing is how he made out that principle just now, is easy to just give a lame ass excuse than deal with the problem

i honestly can't believe that it was easy to do legion raids in BfA than in shadowlands, and they are literally making things worse so you spend more time in the game

by the end of shadowlands hum? so by the end i come back

[munkeyinorbit]

Here is Ion's quote from Blizzcon:

Ion Hazzikostas
Q: the route of certain old raids are very complicated, have you considered adding more teleports? Also people are having difficulty soloing old content, for example even if you have the best gear right now Eonar in Antorus is still very difficult, have you considered make them easier to farm?

A: generally in the end of the dungeon there will be npcs or other ways for you to teleport out of the instance, but if players still find it difficult we will consider adding more. In terms of the difficulty in farming, our principle is: at the end of an expansion, you will be able to solo the content two expansions ago fairly easily. So by the end of Shadowlands, you should be able to kill the legion raid bosses fairly easily-- might not be able to one shot them, but you will be able to. When that time comes the majority of players will be able to go back farming legion content, and even BFA, perhaps with a small group of people.


Sorry Farmers of Things in Old Content ..... you will just have to wait 1 1/2 years. Until then, just keep running the Maw. What a lazy answer from Mr. Developer and Mythic Raider who probably has never mount farmed or transmog farmed in his Elitest Jerk career.

Tbh this is a really lazy take from his answer. The typical "I don't like the answer so blizzard is lazy" attitude is pathetic. You got your answer now deal with it.

[Lucetia]

The fnny thing is how he made out that principle just now, is easy to just give a lame ass excuse than deal with the problem

It's not an excuse. It's been like this ever single TBC. Most of the playerbase can't solo an expansion past worth of content and if they do it's by no means "easy". That doesn't come until two expansions later.

i honestly can't believe that it was easy to do legion raids in BfA than in shadowlands, and they are literally making things worse so you spend more time in the game

Except you weren't doing Legion raids easily by the end of BFA. You were still struggling and the only reason you were able to do it "easily" was in 8.3 when you had corruptions that were so overpowered it was essentially having another expansions worth of power in terms of legacy content. Remove corruptions and drop your stats down to the usual levels and you wouldn't be easily doing them. You'd be struggling/able to do some just like always.

If that's how you want to perceive easy then fine. You should be asking at this point for corruptions to return then so you can get back to that power level to do them easily. Or wait until 9.X when we get back there in terms of power.

[Lazy Gecko]

They really should just work on integrating legacy raids into the LFG leveling system. It's the most straightforward way of keeping the content somewhat relevant and not just tossing it to the soloing trash heap where these things happen. For me, leveling through legacy dungeons also doubles as a nice way of getting a chance to collect any appearances or other collectibles I might not have (which BC dungeons are a goldmine for). They basically did the same thing by adding BFA island expeditions as a leveling option, which has a ton of collectibles up for farming. The same principle can easily apply for old raids.

[Vintersol]

It's not an excuse. It's been like this ever single TBC. Most of the playerbase can't solo an expansion past worth of content and if they do it's by no means "easy". That doesn't come until two expansions later.

You were able to solo everything since the first item squish when you were 11 level above the content because of the extra damage boost. You were able to solo all of MoP when legion were current but not WoD. You were able to solo WoD when BfA was current but not Legion. Now you can't still solo all Legion content. They broke the rule, simple as that.

[Syegfryed]

It's not an excuse. It's been like this ever single TBC. Most of the playerbase can't solo an expansion past worth of content and if they do it's by no means "easy". That doesn't come until two expansions later.

who the fuck is talking about an expansion parth?

do you think we are asking to do BfA raids easily? we are asking to do LEGION content easily, since it should be possible to do now, since is 2 expansions past, but they are telling us to wait until the final of THIS expansion, because they NOW have a principle, lmao

Except you weren't doing Legion raids easily by the end of BFA. you were still struggling

Is this another version of "you think you do but you don't"?

You didn't do easy you strugled, i know your game better than yourself

and the only reason you were able to do it "easily" was in 8.3 when you had corruptions that were so overpowered it was essentially having another expansions worth of power in terms of legacy content.

so i did or i didn't? you are giving me mix feelings, and even if it was because corruption we are talking about ONE expansion past, im talking about TWO expansions pasts

Remove corruptions and drop your stats down to the usual levels and you wouldn't be easily doing them. You'd be struggling/able to do some just like always.

If that's how you want to perceive easy then fine. You should be asking at this point for corruptions to return then so you can get back to that power level to do them easily. Or wait until 9.X when we get back there in terms of power.

Again, im not asking to solo BFA raids, AKA one expansion past" easily, im asking to do TWO expansions past content easy, that should already be possible by now, waow that was some white knight defending blizzard next lv.

[Lucetia]

do you think we are asking to do BfA raids easily? we are asking to do LEGION content easily, since it should be possible to do now, since is 2 expansions past, but they are telling us to wait until the final of THIS expansion, because they NOW have a principle, lmao

You do realize 2 expansions past content is only The Emerald Nightmare / Trial of Valor? The rest still isn't technically 2 expansions past. The Emerald Nightmare I had no issues solo'ing so not sure what that complaint is. Again 2 expansions past means at the end of the current expansion you should be able to solo everything from 2+ expansions past. That has always been the case. Throughout this current expansion you will have some people who can solo various Legion raids but it will be by no means "easy" like it will until the end.

Even if you use the Legacy raid buff that has never been activated for a few expansions in the past until the next one is released (ie next expansion pre-launch then Legion would fold into it)

Is this another version of "you think you do but you don't"?

No, it's another version of common sense. People were doing Legion raids to some extent, but not all were easily soloable. Mythic KJ is one and Antorous a lot struggled solo'ing. This was in patch 8.2. In patch 8.3 things were still hard to do at first but then once we were swimming in corruptions it became easier for some because you were were an entire expansions worth of power boosts in corruptions alone.

so i did or i didn't? you are giving me mix feelings, and even if it was because corruption we are talking about ONE expansion past, im talking about TWO expansions pasts

Nice misquote and adding in words that was never said. Read the above quote that talks about corruptions and my previous and it'll make sense to you.

Again, im not asking to solo BFA raids, AKA one expansion past" easily, im asking to do TWO expansions past content easy, that should already be possible by now, waow that was some white knight defending blizzard next lv.

It might be hard for you to read, but if you read what I wrote I mentioned Legion a lot not solo'ing BFA content. It's not "white knight", but believe if you want. The way solo'ing 2+ expansions has worked has always been the same. Nothing has changed and people are just wanting it "now" because "Shadowlands is 2 expansions past Legion so that means I should be able to do it now!!!!!!! Though this has never been the case. Give me what I want" is the attitude most are giving off in some form.

[Lei]

Blizzard STRONGLY underestimates just how much of their playerbase are the collectors

Oh they know it well. What do you think why we have personal loot level gap thing, and now this "oopsie squish fucked it up, honestly who would've known, anyways now we have new rules" thing?
As Anduin said: LOOK AROUND YOU!

[Asrialol]

You couldn't easily solo BC stuff in WotlK, nor Vanilla stuff in BC etc. I don't see the reasoning in allowing the immediate previous expansion to become solo-farmable.

I remember soloing Kael in Tempest Keep, took like 30-45 min on my hunter, I think in Cata? Back then you had to los the boss most of the time and let your pet damage him, since he mind controlled you if you were in los. Even if you were solo, you'd get mcd.

So I think it's fine you can't really solo Antorus easily. Though Eonar on mythic, still undoable? Or did they change that mechanic?

- - - Updated - - -

Blizzard STRONGLY underestimates just how much of their playerbase are the collectors

There's no estimates here, they have detailed statistics of what every player does and has done. You're a minority.

[Syegfryed]

You do realize 2 expansions past content is only The Emerald Nightmare / Trial of Valor? The rest still isn't technically 2 expansions past.

lmao, "technically" come on now, stop defending their dumb decision, is damn old ass content from 2 expansions ago, it should be easy and/or at least solable by now, like we did before, simple as that

Again 2 expansions past means at the end of the current expansion you should be able to solo everything from 2+ expansions past.

it was nto like this before, why it is just now?

That has always been the case.

not for me at least the beginning of mop already let me farm ICC for the invincible easily, explain that to me.

No, it's another version of common sense. People were doing Legion raids to some extent, but not all were easily soloable.

and im not asking to do BfA content in legion, neither im asking to do Legion content in BFA, im asking to solo two expansions past, who should not be hard, no amtter how hard you try to defend that

Mythic KJ is one and Antorous a lot struggled solo'ing. This was in patch 8.2.

and thats fine because it was just one expansion old, since its two already, it should be easy, period.

Nice misquote and adding in words that was never said.

you literally said to me what i was doing, you think you now my game better than me

It might be hard for you to read, but if you read what I wrote I mentioned Legion a lot not solo'ing BFA content. It's not "white knight", but believe if you want.

it might be hard for you to read with all the whiteknighting blizzard thing

but we are not talking about soloing bfa content in legion, or soloing legion content in BfA

we are talking about soloing two expansions old content, like it was possible to do before

The way solo'ing 2+ expansions has worked has always been the same. Nothing has changed and people are just wanting it "now" because "Shadowlands is 2 expansions past Legion so that means I should be able to do it now!!!!!!! Though this has never been the case. Give me what I want" is the attitude most are giving off in some form.

I could do ICC by the start of MOP and even attempt cataclysm raids
In the start of WOD i could easily do cataclysm and even MOP raids
In Legion i could easily do MOP and even WoD raids
In BfA i could easily do WOD and even attempt some Legion raids.

now we can't do Legion raids and of course we can't attempt to do BfA

and you are telling me nothing has changed and people are just crying

come on now

[Lucetia]

it might be hard for you to read with all the whiteknighting blizzard thing

but we are not talking about soloing bfa content in legion, or soloing legion content in BfA

we are talking about soloing two expansions old content, like it was possible to do before

This tells me that you do not want to have any rational discussion and instead attempt to insult anyone who tries to offer something that differs from your view and can't read what others write. Either way good luck in your crusade.

[Syegfryed]

This tells me that you do not want to have any rational discussion and instead attempt to insult anyone who tries to offer something that differs from your view

you are the one who claim i can't read well and outright lied about the situation(since we have many examples od doing old content like this) and im the one who don't want to have any rational discussion?

[Lei]

Funny thing is, this is from an interview on the topic from 2019:

There will probably be updates to talents. We're still working through all of those particulars - we don't have a lot of the details to talk about here. But the key piece is: if I log on to the new expansion, day one, after I was playing Battle for Azeroth, I will still be able to do all of the same content, all of the same raid content. I'll still be able to go back and farm old raids for transmogs. I'll be able to do the same stuff.

I remember this was the same goal with the pre-wod squish as well. 2014 dev attitude:

In order to bring things down to a more understandable level, we'll be reducing the scale of stats throughout the game and smoothing out those obsolete spikes, so that power scales linearly through questing content from levels 1 to 85. This applies to creatures, spells, abilities, consumables, gear... everything. And while that means your numbers for stats and damage are being reduced by a huge amount, the same goes for creatures' health and damage output. For example, a Fireball that previously hit a creature for 450,000 out of his 3,000,000 health (15% of its health) may now hit that same creature for 30,000 out of its 200,000 health (still 15% of its health). It's important to understand that this isn't a nerf—in effect, you’ll still be just as powerful, but the numbers that you see will be easier to comprehend. This also won't reduce your ability to solo old content. In fact, to provide some additional peace of mind, we're implementing further scaling of your power against lower-level targets so that earlier content will be even more accessible than it is now.

And then the whole legacy loot mode thingy in bfa (for legion) that was first reasoned and decided against then enabled, dancing around the "what's old content?" question. Ehh.

[Unzipped]

There's no rational excuse for Legion content not to receive a Legacy damage buff. The scaling is clearly broken and their refusal to address it properly is ridiculous and unacceptable. They either deliberately want to prohibit us from soloing old content until the end of Shadowlands (engagement metrics perhaps?) or they are too lazy to fix the scaling that they've broken.

[terminaltrip421]

the people claiming ION isn't outright lying are either apologists or ill-informed. the clearest evidence is that 10 levels and and 100 ilvls and mythic legion is still harder than it was at 50 pre-squish. either it was intentional when tuning to artificially inflate amount of content for players compared to what they already had and would otherwise be given or just a happy coincidence on their part either way the end of the expansion line like many others "you don't know what's best for you, we do" is complete bullshit.

[Lei]

You mean in the expansion where the powercreep was so insane that we were able to solo WORLD BOSSES from the start AND middle of the expac? Impossible!

And who is "at fault" for that? Who is "responsible" for that? The players? Why punish the players for it? Not to mention how it is irrelevant because they said "If you could solo before the squish, you should be able to solo after the squish as well." They used to take this seriously.

[Freedom]

Draw up semantics and shitty arguments all you like, you have to admit (surely...) that it is a bad feeling to go from being able to clear old content at 120 to being unable to do it at 60 after yet another squish. Even if corruption is or were a huge outlier, going down in actual power after ostensibly "gaining" power is not something that is desirable given common sense and human psychology. I still remember being dissapointed in Legion prepatch that old MoP raids had become harder and more importantly buggier than they were late WoD.

[Stormspark]

Yep, he outright lied about the squish, and people are leaving in droves over it. This expansion has the fastest drop since WOD...it's actually losing players quicker than WOD did. No, soloing old raids isn't the only reason people are leaving, there are a lot of others, but it's a big one.