A future Turret system

[javierdsv]

It would be fun as a Tank mechanic. Where the turret is your "Taunt" and you can cast it from afar, more like the monk statue, except it also does damage and possibly be able to move and act as an offtank for a small period of time.

Also, don't mind the rude people dismissing your fan idea, they are just rude people with nothing else better to do than being bitter to others over the Internet.

[arkanon]

Yes, this is a thread pertaining to Tinkers since that would be the class that would contain this system. However, I'm not spamming anything. I'm continuing the conversation that started in the necromancer thread. What other Tinker threads are you talking about?

The one in your signature?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...pt-2018-(long)
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...class-for-10-0
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...future-classes
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Ranged-Tank

And these two threads you did nothing but discuss Tinkers:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...at-would-it-be
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...8#post53052018


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It would be fun as a Tank mechanic. Where the turret is your "Taunt" and you can cast it from afar, more like the monk statue, except it also does damage and possibly be able to move and act as an offtank for a small period of time.

Also, don't mind the rude people dismissing your fan idea, they are just rude people with nothing else better to do than being bitter to others over the Internet.

You mean EXACTLY like the monk statue / ox?

[Teriz]

It would be fun as a Tank mechanic. Where the turret is your "Taunt" and you can cast it from afar, more like the monk statue, except it also does damage and possibly be able to move and act as an offtank for a small period of time.

Also, don't mind the rude people dismissing your fan idea, they are just rude people with nothing else better to do than being bitter to others over the Internet.

Yes, I utilized the taunt attribute in the tank spec in my old Tinker concept. That's definitely a possibility. I also thought that being able to slow a target or use multi-shot would also be beneficial to a tanking spec.

As for the haters, it's fine. Some folks just can't help themselves. Thanks for the constructive post.

[TheRevenantHero]

Actually a technology-based class would be very marketable. Especially considering that there isn't one in WoW currently, and it contains multiple concepts that players want (a new physical ranged class, mail armor, new healing spec, a class that doesn't take from other classes, etc.).



I have no idea what you're talking about here.

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https://wow.gamepedia.com/Mechanical
vs


https://wow.gamepedia.com/Demon

So yeah, not just a skin. In addition, given the fact that they are mechanical thematically opens up different gameplay options.







Again, none of that applies to a turret system. You summon one type of turret versus over 20 different totems. You don't need to "feed" your turret to keep it from abandoning you. These "flaws" your mentioning are simply not applicable.

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Yep. Unfortunately some people are ignoring the facts and simply looking to hate for whatever reason.

Them being mechanical is nothing but a mechanical skin slapped on a totem. Just because they look different doesn't mean they don't accomplish the exact same thing. People hated totems and still do. I don't see turrets fairing any better. Turrets being mechanical, from a gameplay and mechanics perspective, is utterly irrelevant. They just wouldn't be different enough to totems.

Also, saying people are ignoring facts is especially rich coming from you since you perpetually ignore any facts that won't hold up your narrative.

[Teriz]

The one in your signature?

You mean the thread I made over three years ago?

[TheRevenantHero]

by that logic, every fucking class is the same, gameplay-wise. press button, do dmg. press button, heal, press button, global cd. all classes have resources to spend on attacks. the "system" they use is irrelevant.

This is an utterly asinine comment. There is absolutely no difference between a turret and a totem other than the turret looking mechanical.

[arkanon]

You mean the thread I made over three years ago?

The one in your signature?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...pt-2018-(long)
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...class-for-10-0
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...future-classes
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Ranged-Tank

And these two threads you did nothing but discuss Tinkers:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...at-would-it-be
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...8#post53052018

[Teriz]

Them being mechanical is nothing but a mechanical skin slapped on a totem. Just because they look different doesn't mean they don't accomplish the exact same thing. People hated totems and still do. I don't see turrets fairing any better. Turrets being mechanical, from a gameplay and mechanics perspective, is utterly irrelevant. They just wouldn't be different enough to totems.

Also, saying people are ignoring facts is especially rich coming from you since you perpetually ignore any facts that won't hold up your narrative.

Well you're ignoring the fact that there were over 20 different totems, and certain totems would cancel out other totems which would be frustrating because you may need both buffs and benefits at once but due to its limitations you couldn't get them.

Meanwhile with the turret system, we're talking about one type of turret. It's not remotely the same thing.

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The one in your signature?

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...pt-2018-(long)
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...class-for-10-0
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...future-classes
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...st-Ranged-Tank

Like I said, the first one was started three years ago.
The second one is about classes in general, not tinkers.
The third one is also about classes in general, not tinkers.
The fourth thread was started in August of 2019.

So me starting a Tinker thread every 16 months or so is spam?

And these two threads you did nothing but discuss Tinkers:
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...at-would-it-be
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...8#post53052018

In the first thread the OP asked which future class would you want. I'm not allowed to discuss Tinkers in such a thread?

Anyone is free to read through that Necormancer thread. They will see that I didn't just talk about Tinkers in that thread.

[TheRevenantHero]

Well you're ignoring the fact that there were over 20 different totems, and certain totems would cancel out other totems which would be frustrating because you may need both buffs and benefits at once but due to its limitations you couldn't get them.

Meanwhile with the turret system, we're talking about one type of turret. It's not remotely the same thing.

I really don't care what turrets USED to be. And the amount of totems is literally why that mechanic was replaced. Players hated totems. There is no way turrets would fair any better. Most players would rather just focus on their character's actions and not micromanage spells. If the turret has no micromanaging, it's worthless and would barely contribute to dps. If the turret DOES have micromanaging, a lot of players will hate it as much as they did totems and the turrets would go back to being a worthless piece of dps.

[arkanon]

Like I said, the first one was started three years ago.
The second one is about classes in general, not tinkers.
The third one is also about classes in general, not tinkers.
The fourth thread was started in August of 2019.

So me starting a Tinker thread every 16 months or so is spam?


In the first thread the OP asked which future class would you want. I'm not allowed to discuss Tinkers in such a thread?

Anyone is free to read through that Necormancer thread. They will see that I didn't just talk about Tinkers in that thread.

You are missing the point being made (very clearly, i might add): There are multiple threads were you are actively pushing your (lol) Tinker fantasy, there is absolutely no need to create yet another thread for you to regurgitate the same tired old arguments again and again.

[Teriz]

I really don't care what turrets USED to be. And the amount of totems is literally why that mechanic was replaced. Players hated totems. There is no way turrets would fair any better.

There being ONE type of turret to drop instead of 20 would be a start.

Most players would rather just focus on their character's actions and not micromanage spells. If the turret has no micromanaging, it's worthless and would barely contribute to dps. If the turret DOES have micromanaging, a lot of players will hate it as much as they did totems and the turrets would go back to being a worthless piece of dps.

Do players hate demonology, beastmastery, and unholy specs? You'd be doing as much micromanaging in a turret-based spec as you do in those classes. Last I checked, those three classes were rather popualr.

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You are missing the point being made (very clearly, i might add): There are multiple threads were you are actively pushing your (lol) Tinker fantasy, there is absolutely no need to create yet another thread for you to regurgitate the same tired old arguments again and again.

Yeah, I'm not going to necro a thread from almost 2 years ago to discuss this topic. Like I said, I began this thread to continue a discussion in another thread that was rightfully stopped by a mod. If you don't wish to continue that discussion, you're free to stop posting in this thread.

[TheRevenantHero]

There being ONE type of turret to drop instead of 20 would be a start.



Do players hate demonology, beastmastery, and unholy specs? You'd be doing as much micromanaging in a turret-based spec as you do in those classes. Last I checked, those three classes were rather popualr.

With the specs you mentioned, their additional unit they summon can actually move. A turret would be stationary forcing a player to constantly unsummon then resummon when they get into combat. It's frustrating even THINKING about it. Also, shamans don't have 20 totems anymore. Hell, we barely have any totems NOW. So bringing up 20 totems is irrelevant because it's not a thing anymore.

[Zigrifid]

If they bring the engineer from torchlight 2 i would definately want that :P turrets shooting enemies or healing turrets ! HECK even the robots you made for battles were awesome

[javierdsv]

With the specs you mentioned, their additional unit they summon can actually move. A turret would be stationary forcing a player to constantly unsummon then resummon when they get into combat. It's frustrating even THINKING about it. Also, shamans don't have 20 totems anymore. Hell, we barely have any totems NOW. So bringing up 20 totems is irrelevant because it's not a thing anymore.

Lol, did you miss the wheels from the picture in the OP?
The turret would be able to move, it could even have some traits of pets for further interactivity. Just because another class already have something similar it doesn't mean a new one can't iterate on something that's already popular.

People loved being able to tame mechanical pets, so just "stumping a mechanical skin" into something can be something good too.

[Diaphin]

Actually a technology-based class would be very marketable. Especially considering that there isn't one in WoW currently, and it contains multiple concepts that players want (a new physical ranged class, mail armor, new healing spec, a class that doesn't take from other classes, etc.).

I think the fact that technology based races in the game are among the least popular kind of proves you wrong. Especially since there is not really any marketable expansion scenario which would thematically fit a tinker as the new class.

I have no idea what you're talking about here.

Literally the Gnomes being beaten into submission by troggs to the point where they had to nuke their own city, which wouldn't even defeat the trogs? Or the fact that basically the entirety of the playable goblins would have been slaughtered by rogues if it wasn't for the help of a shaman?

[Swnem]

Yup, it's a unique system and a unique fantasy.

It would become a niche that is not filled in the ranged defender. Low mobility, but very strong within it's zone, in this case the rock-it turrets.
Then there are funny interactions such as the grav bomb that would become great utility in dungeons and raids. It's basically a ranged grip. Finally the AoE dynamite with a stun. A delayed explosion that deals massive damage. It allows protection of their personal zone in case someone rushes gazlowe/the caster.

Playing Gazlowe in Heroes was what made me want a Tinker class in WoW.

[Teriz]

With the specs you mentioned, their additional unit they summon can actually move. A turret would be stationary forcing a player to constantly unsummon then resummon when they get into combat. It's frustrating even THINKING about it. Also, shamans don't have 20 totems anymore. Hell, we barely have any totems NOW. So bringing up 20 totems is irrelevant because it's not a thing anymore.

Again, you're simply ignoring the facts. Yeah Shaman don't have 20 totems anymore, but they still have multiple totems that you have to sift through. Once again, there is only ONE type of turret a Tinker would have to consider dropping. Any utility would already be built into the turret. For example, if you picked up the "Overcharged Capacitors" talent, every turret you drop would increase the Tinker's ability damage by X%.

Also if we look at Demonology, one reason Warlocks don't mind the imps is because they spawn passively via Hand of Gul'dan and/or Inner Demon.

The Tinker could operate in a similar fashion where certain abilities also passively spawn turrets. We already see this in HotS with the Ark Reactor Talent;

Ark Reaktor (Level 16)World of Warcraft Gazlowe
Reduce the cooldown of Xplodium Charge by 2 seconds. Casting Xplodium Charge creates 3 miniature Rock-It! Turrets that last for 3 seconds.

If this were an ability or talent in WoW, I would make it actual turrets and give them a longer duration. I think they could also expand upon that idea and offer the Tinker an actual ability that allows you to launch a projectile that summons 3 turrets at a location. This ability could share a cooldown with the main Rock It Turret ability.

In addition, a Tinker could have the ability to summon their turret to them (have it pop out some treads on the bottom and have it race towards them!) and have the turret transform into a temporary cannon either on the back of their claw pack or on the arm of a mech;



In short, there's multiple ways to make this system interesting and far different than the mess that was the Shaman totem system. You're simply fishing for problems.

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I think the fact that technology based races in the game are among the least popular kind of proves you wrong. Especially since there is not really any marketable expansion scenario which would thematically fit a tinker as the new class.

Yeah, they're the least popular races in the game because they're technology-based races without technology-based classes to play as.

As for a marketable expansion scenario;

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Undermine

Literally the Gnomes being beaten into submission by troggs to the point where they had to nuke their own city, which wouldn't even defeat the trogs? Or the fact that basically the entirety of the playable goblins would have been slaughtered by rogues if it wasn't for the help of a shaman?

So you're saying that Blizzard wouldn't bring in a Tinker class because the Gnomes were overrun by Troggs in Gnomeregan, and because the Bilgewater castaways needed help from the Horde? Yeah, that makes zero sense.

[Vasilisa]

I've played Guild Wars 2 for quite some time as Engineer. Turrets are nice but until they are summoned once and follow you (like hunter pets) they're nuisance. It's really good mechanic on paper but in reality outside of pvp it's just irritating that you have to spend few extra seconds each time to start dealing damage.

[vian]

The two turret classes in warhammer online were some of the more interesting classes I've ever played. I'm all for it.

[Teriz]

Yup, it's a unique system and a unique fantasy.

It would become a niche that is not filled in the ranged defender. Low mobility, but very strong within it's zone, in this case the rock-it turrets.
Then there are funny interactions such as the grav bomb that would become great utility in dungeons and raids. It's basically a ranged grip. Finally the AoE dynamite with a stun. A delayed explosion that deals massive damage. It allows protection of their personal zone in case someone rushes gazlowe/the caster.

Playing Gazlowe in Heroes was what made me want a Tinker class in WoW.

Yeah, the HotS Tinker is a very interesting hero. I'm very happy to see Blizzard integrating it's abilities into WoW. It's a very good sign.

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I've played Guild Wars 2 for quite some time as Engineer. Turrets are nice but until they are summoned once and follow you (like hunter pets) they're nuisance. It's really good mechanic on paper but in reality outside of pvp it's just irritating that you have to spend few extra seconds each time to start dealing damage.

Honestly the GW2 turret system is very similar to the Shaman totem system. The HotS turret system is a lot more dynamic, and more than likely the system that Blizzard would adopt.

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If they bring the engineer from torchlight 2 i would definately want that :P turrets shooting enemies or healing turrets ! HECK even the robots you made for battles were awesome

Yeah, the Construction skills from TL2 would be an interesting way to utilize support bots. I definitely think a Tinker should have aspects of construction within their ability set, like having two or more summons combine to form a more powerful summon, or (like I mentioned earlier) the ability for a summon to fuse with the Tinker in some fashion and create a temporary weapon.

The WC3 Tinker ability Pocket Factory could be a big facilitator for that concept, allowing you to continuously produce robotic summons while fighting. For example, you could deploy the factory, it's producing temporary clockworks that are fighting for you, and if you have 3 or more active clockworks you can fuse them together to form a spider bot that lasts a bit longer and has more firepower. If you have 3 active clockworks and a turret you can construct a Gun Bot that pretty much acts like a more powerful mobile turret. And of course you can summon that Gunbot back to your Tinker and it can form a temporary weapon, like a laser cannon or a railgun that that Tinker can use in a limited fashion.

You could even push this with stronger summons. For example, you summon a healbot, and if you need a bit more mobile protection you can fuse your healbot with a turret and now your healbot can heal and attack. I think that would be quite an interesting style of gameplay if properly implemented. Obviously you'd have to make sure to not make it too complex or convoluted.