They don't need to so there will always be friction for PvP, but the developers can and definitely will let us play together at some point.
They don't need to so there will always be friction for PvP, but the developers can and definitely will let us play together at some point.
Well, I'm going to be blunt but Nazi Germany did much worse to Polish people and other nations, and yet we live in peace now.
Sometimes, the light of the moon is a key to other spaces. I've found a place where, for a night or two, the streets curve in unfamiliar ways. If I walk here, I might find insight, or I might be touched by madness.
Ashran is a mess because how far should a treaty allow? When one side is found out to be making plays for their own advantage and possible moves what does it matter.... This is similar to the later Silithus fiasco where SI:7 was hounding the goblins with some other fallout that is largely ignored (cause it really muddies up the stated events of the 'Fourth' war.... which is really the 5th war because the lore team can't count apparently).
But yeah, the only shit Genn Started was Stormheim and some people will argue that should be a casus belli for a larger war like what BFA turned out to be (one of a few events that make for better casus belli then Sylvanas felt like starting war and thus the story said so)
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actually.... it wasn't THAT long ago. Some parties responsible are still alive. An example just got exiled out of the USA within the past couple months. Granted it has been much longer timewise for the RL events at 80~ years now vs... what? 10~20 in game with the current timeline since the first war being around 40 years total?
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actually the horde is younger than the alliance. The current horde wasn't formed till post 3rd war and the alliance is the remains of what forces united against the first orcish invasions.
A problem is both share names with organizations going back further and there have been at least 5 different hordes in the history under different leadership. Like Doomhammer, Blackhand, Guldan... Thrall and Garrosh (Gary having two different hordes that affected the MU setting).
So even if we're talking the Alliance of Stormwind that included Quel'thalas and ironforge (from the third war) that's still older than the horde that was founded under Thrall.
The Alliance of Lordaeron is younger than the Horde that was around during its inception. Regardless of whether that Horde was this Horde or that Alliance was this Alliance, the Alliance is far younger than the 10k year history that the original poster was citing for Alliance crimes.
But yeah, the Horde (Shadow Council's, Doomhammer's, Ner'zhul's, Thrall's, Garrosh's first, Vol'jin's, and Sylvanas's all used the unqualified moniker "Horde"), True Horde (Garrosh's second), Iron Horde (Garrosh's third), Dark Horde (Rend Blackhand's), and Fel Horde (Magtheridan's and Illidan's) can lead to confusion. I personally consider the Shadow Council's Horde under Blackhand to be the same ruled by Doomhammer after he beat Blackhand, to be the same as Thrall's when Doomhammer gave him the title, to be the same as Garrosh's first when Thrall handed down the title, to be the same as Vol'jin's when Thrall gave it to him, to be the same as Sylvanas's when Vol'jin named her Warchief, to be the same as the one currently ruled by the Horde Council. I consider Ner'zhul's Horde and the Dark Horde to be splinters (given they took over in a power vacuum caused by Doomhammer's capture but were not officially named by Doomhammer or seized via combat) and thus not part of the "Horde", with the True Horde a splinter formed by Garrosh's machinations, and the Fel Horde being a splinter of Ner'zhul's (the orcs remaining on Draenor). I recognize that some people draw additional distinctions (e.g. the aforementioned Thrall's Horde being separate from Doomhammer's), though given there's a solid line of succession between Blackhand and Sylvanas, I personally think of it as the same organization.
I disagree, the horde that Doomhammer lead was beaten into submission, broken and captured or scattered to the wind. Regardless of whether Thrall was named his successor or not the whole thing was scattered to the wind with no holds to call home and no allies remaining.
Thrall's escape to Kalimdor and founding of Orgrimmar was an entirely new entity with new almost entirely membership with very few beings or groups from the prior established horde and was hostile with the horde that came to exist. In a way it's like calling the current human nations of the alliance the seven kingdoms... despite that only one of the Seven originating nations remained as an established nation in it's own right.
I think it's more that somewhere along the way we have an organization that is totally different from inception that it's not the same in any respect... and that the organization was wiped out utterly and completely. On top of that we have to realize that the orcs as a racial group (and the authors) are very bad at picking names and keep using the same one for every large group mobilizing under singular leadership.
I mean... Andy is the High King, i.e. the highest ranked military officer in the entire Alliance. If he cannot properly punish a subordinate who clearly disobeys him, and is responsible for a major diplomatic incident (to say the least) on top, then either a) the High King title is completely empty, since it carries no weight whatsoever, or b) Anduin was implicitly in agreement with Genn, in which case his mellow "peace" rhetoric is nothing but a hogwash.
Doomhammer had already broken out and was Warchief at the time Thrall did things. The orcs he commands were Doomhammer's orcs, the plate he wears is Doomhammer's plate, ditto the hammer he uses, which is quite literally the Doomhammer. Doomhammer passes him leadership directly and nothing structurally changes in the way the Horde works, Blood Oath and all.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
nothing changes beyond new base of operations... totally new roster of followers and leaving behind most of the people that would have been Doomhammer's forces since it was only 4 ships crossing the ocean.
Fact remains that there's little if anything left of what passes as the horde of Doomhammer fleeing the Eastern Kingdoms on those few ships.
Doomhammer quite literally appoints Thrall Warchief, Thrall wears his duds, changes nothing about the structure of the Horde save for allowing other races which make the same oath as the orcs and names his capital city after him and other outposts after members of the Horde. The New Horde is like New Labour, a branding exercise and directional change, not a whole new group.
Last edited by Super Dickmann; 2021-03-06 at 10:13 AM.
Dickmann's Law: As a discussion on the Lore forums becomes longer, the probability of the topic derailing to become about Sylvanas approaches 1.
Tinkers will be the next Class confirmed.
Personally I'm very curious to see how Anduin will come out of this ordeal. He is gonna be a changed person but by how much. What if he suddenly turns into something different. Imagine a scenario where Anduin blames the Horde for what happened from Cataclysm till now and starts a whole crusade in all of Azeroth using every means nessesary.
I think you might be mistaken about character development. Garrosh was always a bad apple from the moment he set foot on Azeroth. Sylvannas was the same bad apple the moment she died and came back as a Banshee. They certainly did not do a 180 turn overnight. They were always like that. Anduin however wasn't written to be a bad apple. That is why I am curious if this whole ordeal will change him and make him like the hypothetical scenario.
Incorrect. Having actual flaws =/= being "a bad apple".
So the isolationist, fiercely independent Sylvanas of WC3/early WoW who saw her undeath as a disgrace, became first an imperialist moron with messianic undertones (undeath is a superior state, embrace it guyz!), and then she relinquished her freedom by tying her fate to the guy who is ultimately responsible for all the !@#$ she went through. Remember when she chastised the dreadlords in WC3? Now she's their handmaiden lul. Yeah, top character development there.
When I say he was a bad apple I meant that he was always like this and that was the words of the devs not mine. Sylvannas as a character was scarred the moment she died becoming a Lie, Backstabbing person who used everyone else (Forsaken,the Horde) to get her Revenge on Arthas while she also had an agenda to turn on the living at some point. Seeing the Jailer and allying with him simply gave her more weapons to achive that.
Source please.
And she didn't even get her revenge on Arthas, which was reserved to Tirion Sue. Also that "agenda to turn on the living at some point" was pulled straight out of Afrasiabi's rear and promptly dropped, as it happened with many of his "ideas". Pre BtS Sylvanas is incompatible with her BtS depiction, and the latter is also incompatible with her BfA depiction... which in turn is incompatible with her SL depiction (so far). Indeed, top character development there. There is nothing in common between the four iterations of Sylv, other than a generic af "undead bad gurl" motto.