A future Turret system

[jellmoo]

I would argue that Pocket Factory is a very novel ability and mechanic that could be expanded into some interesting applications. I hope it makes its way into WoW.

Sure, it could be. It could also be remarkably similar to Force of Nature. I have no idea how Blizzard would implement it, but my feeling is that they would likely go more on the conservative side, considering what they did with Monks and Demon Hunters.

[Ielenia]

Refusal to answer the question, and outright deflection.

Not surprised.

There was no deflection. I am trying to stick to the point here which you keep trying to skirt to make unrelated claims. If you want to claim abilities are translated 1:1 you need to show player abilities because that is what matters. What NPCs can do is irrelevant, because they follow different rules.

And yet you keep trying to dodge the point by using NPC abilities to avoid the fact that when abilities from other games are used as inspiration for new class abilities in WoW, they do not come 1:1.

And funny how you think "avoiding a question" is something bad that should be called out, yet you see no problem at all when you are the one avoiding questions. There's a name for that: hypocrisy.

Paladins had an aura that increased armor, and they could shield themselves from damage as they bashed people. Holy Light and Rez were support abilities, showcasing the Paladin's dual role as a healer and a warrior.

Except the paladin had no offensive abilities at all. That's like saying the Mountain King "proved its role as a warrior and a ranger." Or that the archmage has proven its role as a "mage and a healer".

As for Demon Hunters, they had Evasion which made them almost impossible to hit, and Immolation that burned targets around them. You combine the inability to hit the Demon Hunter and the DH burning you down with immolation and its basic attack, and they were a nightmare to deal with in duels.

Basic attacks which became ranged when he used his ultimate, and his single offensive ability being a ranged one.

Neither is anything like the Tinker playstyle, which was more backline, disrupting forces at range while protected by melee units.

Except they are. It's funny how you dismiss the paladin's ranged abilities as being "support abilities", yet count the Tinker's 'Pocket Factory' as ranged. And the tinker was never a "ranged" one. Heavy evidence of that is that Gazlowe in HotS is also a melee character.

[LilSaihah]

You do know that the guns on top of tanks and warships are also called turrets right?

When you're talking about 'turrets' in the context of a video game it carries with it the implication that it's something that you place which does not move. It'd be like if I said 'walking totem'; it's a nonsense phrase because the entire conceit of totems is that you place them and they do not move.

If you're gonna have a thread about turrets make a thread about turrets not a thread about mechs or warships or tanks or whatever.

Sure, it could be. It could also be remarkably similar to Force of Nature. I have no idea how Blizzard would implement it, but my feeling is that they would likely go more on the conservative side, considering what they did with Monks and Demon Hunters.

Yeah it'd just straight up be a cooldown, you plonk it down and then some weenies come out of it, they attack things and maybe they taunt them. I wouldn't expect it to be anything more interesting.

[Directionalk9]

A past totem system.

[Teriz]

Sure, it could be. It could also be remarkably similar to Force of Nature. I have no idea how Blizzard would implement it, but my feeling is that they would likely go more on the conservative side, considering what they did with Monks and Demon Hunters.

You think Touch of Death, Double Jump, or Rain from Above are conservative?

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Except the paladin had no offensive abilities at all. That's like saying the Mountain King "proved its role as a warrior and a ranger." Or that the archmage has proven its role as a "mage and a healer".

Correct, he had defensive abilities. Those defensive abilities allowed him to stay alive, fight in melee, and support their units. Tanks in WoW do the exact same thing.

Basic attacks which became ranged when he used his ultimate, and his single offensive ability being a ranged one.

And a ridiculously strong defensive passive that allowed the Demon Hunter to stay alive and deal damage. Also Metamorphosis lasted 1 minute but had a 3 minute cooldown. What form do you think Demon Hunters were spending the most time in?

Except they are. It's funny how you dismiss the paladin's ranged abilities as being "support abilities", yet count the Tinker's 'Pocket Factory' as ranged. And the tinker was never a "ranged" one. Heavy evidence of that is that Gazlowe in HotS is also a melee character.

They were both healing abilities. How were they not support abilities?

Pocket Factory was pumping out waves of killer robots that would blow up and decimate weaker units. One particularly potent tactic was to toss pocket factory into the backline where there were archers and spellcasters, and let the clockwerks rip them apart. How you can compare something like that to a heal is beyond me.

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When you're talking about 'turrets' in the context of a video game it carries with it the implication that it's something that you place which does not move. It'd be like if I said 'walking totem'; it's a nonsense phrase because the entire conceit of totems is that you place them and they do not move.

If you're gonna have a thread about turrets make a thread about turrets not a thread about mechs or warships or tanks or whatever.

What about auto turrets in Final Fantasy? They're flying turrets;

[cocomen2]

What about auto turrets in Final Fantasy? They're flying turrets;

WOW people call thing like this a Drone.

[Teriz]

WOW people call thing like this a Drone.

Merely pointing out that the term "turret" doesn't always mean a stationary device you place on the ground.

[LilSaihah]

What about auto turrets in Final Fantasy? They're flying turrets;

I'd probably say its a mistranslation.

[Ielenia]

Correct, he had defensive abilities. Those defensive abilities allowed him to stay alive, fight in melee, and support their units. Tanks in WoW do the exact same thing.

By that logic I can say that the ranged abilities on the tinker allowed him to stay alive and fight in melee by distracting the enemy ranged units while the tinker attacked the melee units.

And a ridiculously strong defensive passive that allowed the Demon Hunter to stay alive and deal damage. Also Metamorphosis lasted 1 minute but had a 3 minute cooldown. What form do you think Demon Hunters were spending the most time in?

And now you're moving the goalposts, because we're not talking about timers, we're talking about class design and how auto-attack in WC3 dictates if a class in WoW is melee or ranged. On top of that, one solid minute with a ranged auto-attack is a long time. That's usually how long fights last in the RTS before one side retreats or is wiped out.

[Chaelexi]

Really? Do you have a poll or any shred of evidence to support your notion that the MAJORITY of the playerbase wouldn't want a turret system?

The fact that you are one of the few that keeps beating this drum..... TO DEATH!!!!

You maybe one of a few that want to play a tinker. To the point where everyone else in this thread is does not want to see this happen ever.

[Teriz]

By that logic I can say that the ranged abilities on the tinker allowed him to stay alive and fight in melee by distracting the enemy ranged units while the tinker attacked the melee units.

Except the Tinker wouldn’t fight in melee unless it had a major numbers advantage with its robotic summons. Ironically, in that sense the Tinker played quite a bit like the Necromancer, where they would sit back and let their summons take and give the brunt of the damage.

And now you're moving the goalposts, because we're not talking about timers, we're talking about class design and how auto-attack in WC3 dictates if a class in WoW is melee or ranged. On top of that, one solid minute with a ranged auto-attack is a long time. That's usually how long fights last in the RTS before one side retreats or is wiped out.

No, I’m pointing out that 90% of the time you were in DH form fighting in melee, not lobbing balls of chaos in demon form. Heck, Evasion was such a strong spell that once maxed out, DHs were one of the best tanking heroes in the game.

Also that ranged auto-attack in demon form wasn’t transferred to WoW. Again showing that auto-attacks in WC3 don’t always dictate a spec or ability’s range in WoW.

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The fact that you are one of the few that keeps beating this drum..... TO DEATH!!!!

You maybe one of a few that want to play a tinker. To the point where everyone else in this thread is does not want to see this happen ever.

Actually, the Tinker tends to win future class polls around these parts rather easily. Much to the surprise (and chagrin) of many vocal posters here.

[Chaelexi]

Except the Tinker wouldn’t fight in melee unless it had a major numbers advantage with its robotic summons. Ironically, in that sense the Tinker played quite a bit like the Necromancer, where they would sit back and let their summons take and give the brunt of the damage.




But that ranged auto-attack in demon form wasn’t transferred to WoW. Again showing that auto-attacks in WC3 don’t always dictate a spec or ability’s range in WoW.

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Actually, the Tinker tends to win future class polls around these parts rather easily. Much to the surprise (and chagrin) of many vocal posters here.

There is no need for any future classes. Wow currently has the caster/ranged classed covered(Mage, Warlock/Necro pet style caster style in lock, Another Dark arts in SP, Elementalist in Shaman and Druid and a physical ranged in hunter), the melee classes more than covered, healers are good and tanks are more than good. There is no room for another class. They win cause there is no other classes. You are winning out of the garbage blizzard has not made... And most of these polls always leave out we do not need another god damned class as an option.

[jellmoo]

You think Touch of Death, Double Jump, or Rain from Above are conservative?

Absolutely. 100%. They are abilities with some level of uniqueness, but nothing that fundamentally alters how the game is played. They aren't like letting all three specs of class be both tank and dps like the DK used to. Or like the original plan for Monks not having an auto attack and using a combo move system.

[Teriz]

There is no need for any future classes. Wow currently has the caster/ranged classed covered(Mage, Warlock/Necro pet style caster style in lock, Another Dark arts in SP, Elementalist in Shaman and Druid and a physical ranged in hunter), the melee classes more than covered, healers are good and tanks are more than good. There is no room for another class. They win cause there is no other classes. You are winning out of the garbage blizzard has not made... And most of these polls always leave out we do not need another god damned class as an option.

Uh, where’s the technology-based class? Pretty much every MMO with a steam-punk element has one, and there’s obviously a group of players who like to play such classes. We also have three classes that feel a bit out of place because there’s no technology-based class.

Also what about a third class that wears mail? What about another physical ranged class to compete with Hunters for bows/guns?

[Ielenia]

Except the Tinker wouldn’t fight in melee unless it had a major numbers advantage with its robotic summons.

Wrong. The tinker would fight in melee, because a good portion of its damage comes from its melee auto-attacks.

No, I’m pointing out that 90% of the time you were in DH form fighting in melee,

And 90% of the time the tinker would be fighting in melee, as well, despite its ranged abilities. Like all the other melee units.

Also that ranged auto-attack in demon form wasn’t transferred to WoW.

Further reinforcing my claim that abilities are not translated 1:1 to WoW, like you say they do.

Again showing that auto-attacks in WC3 don’t always dictate a spec or ability’s range in WoW.

Except they apparently do, save rare exceptions.

Actually, the Tinker tends to win future class polls around these parts rather easily.

Except the tinker has been steadily loosing popularity to other class ideas.

[Teriz]

Wrong. The tinker would fight in melee, because a good portion of its damage comes from its melee auto-attacks.

Incorrect. It’s most damaging ability is pocket factory by far.

And 90% of the time the tinker would be fighting in melee, as well, despite its ranged abilities. Like all the other melee units.

Incorrect again. 90% of the time the tinker is in the back line letting his bits do the work. The only time see him in the front is in Robo-Goblin mode, and that’s mainly to demolish buildings. A Tinker wading into a melee fight would be dead in seconds

Further reinforcing my claim that abilities are not translated 1:1 to WoW, like you say they do.

They were translated, just to the Warlock class instead. The DH class got the HotS version of the spell.

Except they apparently do, save rare exceptions.

Which means they don’t.

Except the tinker has been steadily loosing popularity to other class ideas.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...at-would-it-be

In that thread the majority of posters picked the Tinker class, and that thread is only four months old.

[arkanon]

Incorrect. It’s most damaging ability is pocket factory by far.




Incorrect again. 90% of the time the tinker is in the back line letting his bits do the work. The only time see him in the front is in Robo-Goblin mode, and that’s mainly to demolish buildings. A Tinker wading into a melee fight would be dead in seconds



They were translated, just to the Warlock class instead. The DH class got the HotS version of the spell.




Which means they don’t.




https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...at-would-it-be

In that thread the majority of posters picked the Tinker class, and that thread is only four months old.

See, I asked why you stopped posting in that very active, 200+ page thread, and you said it was too old. But could it possibly be because the conversation didn't go the way you wanted, so you threw your toys out of the crib and left?

At this point further discussion on this topic is pointless. I'll see you in the fall with the next expansion announcement.

that was what, a week ago? Around the time you created this thread, to better control the narrative?

[razorpax]

See, I asked why you stopped posting in that very active, 200+ page thread, and you said it was too old. But could it possibly be because the conversation didn't go the way you wanted, so you threw your toys out of the crib and left?



that was what, a week ago? Around the time you created this thread, to better control the narrative?

He left because he got caught in BS and can’t say “well the devs were wrong about the reasoning behind their development choices”

[Teriz]

See, I asked why you stopped posting in that very active, 200+ page thread, and you said it was too old. But could it possibly be because the conversation didn't go the way you wanted, so you threw your toys out of the crib and left?

Nope, it was because the topic got too old. However, the point of me bringing up that thread was the frequency of the Tinker being mentioned as the preferred class by the majority of posters.

that was what, a week ago? Around the time you created this thread, to better control the narrative?

The reason I began this thread is discussed in the OP.

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He left because he got caught in BS and can’t say “well the devs were wrong about the reasoning behind their development choices”

Let’s not derail this thread with your wild fantasies Raz.

[razorpax]

Nope, it was because the topic got too old.




The reason I began this thread is discussed in the OP.

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Let’s not derail this thread with your wild fantasies Raz.

You mean like your fantasies that DH wasn’t in TBC because vanilla had 9 classes

You’re right let’s stick to the fact the turret system would have to either operate off the pet AI which according to your posts is too much like hunter

Or it would be like a totem which is like old shaman according to your posts