Now that its been proven min maxes are the majority will content change?

[Halfaheart]

If you ignore that the best covenant also often are the best fit themeatically, sure.

This. My DK and druid are in their respective covenants based on how the aesthetics fit each character and they just so happened to be the best covenants for the classes.
The 'evidence' OP is referring to is circumstantial

You can give me a 100% buff to Shackle the Unworthy and I still won't switch my DK to Kyrian lol

[Donald Hellscream]

I think it is more likely they just googled whats best, and picked that to avoid other people sperging out in groups because they picked what someone perceive to be the wrong covenant.

[MrLachyG]

Where’s the proof that this is the case?

[Doffen]

That's absolute bullshit.

Night Fae is best covenant for most specs and Night Fae only really fits Druid and Hunter thematically. Don't even try to say that Night Fae fits Rogues and Warlocks.

Venthyr is the least played covenant overall despite it being the most popular covenant thematically.

And what does rogue and warlock fit themeatically? Or shamans?

Venthyr can't be the most popular and the least played. I mean for me it is, but still personally I chose NF for hunter, Necro for DK, Paladin will be Kyrian and my druid is NF. My mage however is an Void Elf so venthyr felt good for that one.

All these are fit for their covenants themeatically. My rogue, dh, shaman or warlock? No idea, they dont really fit many, though I see many warlocks in my Necrolord Covenant sanctum.

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Thematics are up to personal preference which makes your entire argument a moot point since different people enjoy different types of art and such. while one person wants a war based dk with necrolords, another wants a spirit dk with bastion.

No, it really is not. So you are saying druid fits sinners or people that live for war?

No sir, your argument isn't good enough.

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This. My DK and druid are in their respective covenants based on how the aesthetics fit each character and they just so happened to be the best covenants for the classes.
The 'evidence' OP is referring to is circumstantial

You can give me a 100% buff to Shackle the Unworthy and I still won't switch my DK to Kyrian lol

Yeah, same. I am Frost so its pretty much the same what I choose. I am not really into the theme necrolord is from before, but with SL, my DK, my main, that was an easy choice. And I really love the Venthyr. But theme is a theme. Spirit DK. Lol

[schwarzkopf]

Covenants, specs, classes, gear ... it's all min max - short of making everyone exactly the same - there will always be a 'best'.

Nothing will change... balance and uniqueness are opposite sides of the coin.

[Doffen]

Except for the part where Night Fae is the best covenant for the highest amount of specs despite thematically fitting maybe three classes. Followed by Kyrian, that fits two.

Except I said often.

Just checking the api. 1.25 million of the 2.45 mill NF are druids and hunters. Half. That fits themeatically. Then mage with 450k. But mage doesnt really fit any Covenant. Rest got a spread, which besides 3 classes where two screams Night Fae, are only 1/3 of the Night Fae.

I am not debating if people go for whats best or not, they often do, we often do. Blizzard did a good job to match power and theme for those obvious ones. Which is, well obvious. And very good imo.

[Squigglyo]

Min Maxing isnt what matters to the majority.
Getting invited to groups and not being attacked for being sub-optimal matters though.


Depending on what you read at release, Covenant abilities were sold as a 'be this or you will do a LOT less damage'.

The issue isnt min-maxing. Its tying it to a choice. For many people the choice was min-max or pick what they wanted.
Never EVER in the game have people been forced to make that locks them out of a part of the game if they want to min-max.



The majority dont care about min-maxing. If they did youde see eveyone walking around with socketed gear. You dont, because most hate the maw and wont go out of their way to get the sockets.
Covenant picking is a simple choice that requires no further effort.

[Archibalde]

All these are fit for their covenants themeatically. My rogue, dh, shaman or warlock? No idea, they dont really fit many, though I see many warlocks in my Necrolord Covenant sanctum.

Warlocks and Demon Hunters fit Necrolord perfectly in terms of lore. Demon Hunters sacrifice everything in the name of glory and conquest. They corrupt their very souls with the power of their enemies to gain every advantage they can over them. Warlocks are shunned by their own people for toying with dangerous power that could easily turn on them. They summon these incredibly powerful beings with plans of enslaving them to do their bidding, and just like Demon Hunters they utilize their enemy's power against them. They are the ultimate risk/reward class and that is the Necrolords to a T.

Shamans would fit the Night Fae the best. They have a strong connection to nature and that's really the most basic tie to Night Fae. Rogues are as ambivalent as warriors but would fit Venthyr the most. Outlaws, thieves and assassins. The ones that are repentant would seek redemption for their sins. The others would likely go straight to the Maw.

[Echo of Soul]

Cool. Another thread where someone thinks what the "majority" of the player base does. It's amazing how many people in the gaming community doesn't understand the definition of majority.

As Blizzard once said (because they would know), the majority of the player base never makes it to max level. So, it's hard to believe that the "majority" min/max.

I think he's basing his "proof" on this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0eJBv_MDw8&t=2s
So in the m+ environment a lot of people minmax. Wow, chocking that high end players go for high end builds.

[Doffen]

Warlocks and Demon Hunters fit Necrolord perfectly in terms of lore. Demon Hunters sacrifice everything in the name of glory and conquest. They corrupt their very souls with the power of their enemies to gain every advantage they can over them. Warlocks are shunned by their own people for toying with dangerous power that could easily turn on them. They summon these incredibly powerful beings with plans of enslaving them to do their bidding, and just like Demon Hunters they utilize their enemy's power against them. They are the ultimate risk/reward class and that is the Necrolords to a T.

Shamans would fit the Night Fae the best. They have a strong connection to nature and that's really the most basic tie to Night Fae. Rogues are as ambivalent as warriors but would fit Venthyr the most. Outlaws, thieves and assassins. The ones that are repentant would seek redemption for their sins. The others would likely go straight to the Maw.

Not disagreeing with you, but they are still not cut and clear as the others mentioned. Night Fae is nature based, but Shamans are not using the elements as druids uses nature. Shamans could fit Maldraxxus as Shamans uses the elements offensively, as in combat. Agree with DH, but they also fit venthyr as much. Warlocks as you say, definitely agree. Rogues look like Venthyr and Necrolord to me. A part of Necrolords is being being a cunning assasin. Draka is doing all the things a rogue do in the cinematic, learned from her stay in Maldraxxus.

All good examples you bring here, dont get me wrong, but they are still not as clear as paladins going Kyrian, druids and hunters going Night Fae and DKs going Necrolord. Though Kyrian Demon Hunters makes little sense, I agree.

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I think he's basing his "proof" on this video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0eJBv_MDw8&t=2s
So in the m+ environment a lot of people minmax. Wow, chocking that high end players go for high end builds.

Yeah, what is he really basing it off? Api can be a folly tool. Wish Blizzard could come with official info. But they might dont dare

[Asrialol]

AHAHAH really? That's hilarious. Is that PVP specific? I can't imagine what NL offers over Fae.

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You might want to learn to read before you spout off you fucking child. I *am* playing druid.

The problem with these sources that people use is that it's based off of characters doing either pvp, m+ or raids - something that the majority of the playerbase doesn't actually participate in.
So we have data of the minority, showing a majority of them chosing what's best. Then people like the OP thinks the numbers shows the majority of the playerbase.

Tldr; people doesn't understand what they're using as arguments.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

Its not as simple as this i'm afraid

During beta there were times when the Best covenant was a poor fit in terms of flavour and player were outraged for being forced to play fairie death knights and Angel locks, blizzard nerfed such cases almost as if they wanted the Best covenant to be the Best fit

Is anyone surprised that palas are kyrian and druids/Hunters night fae?

How likely is it for some one Who mains druid to not want to be night fae? If on the other hand all druids were venthyr due to performance your arguement would be bulletproof

My Havoc DH ist a good night fae fit i agree all that green fire is what night faes are about

[Ragnarohk]

So how do you explain the classes that don't fit any of the themes?

The only spec. Not class but spec with a healthy break down is havoc and to be honest that seems to be a dead spec.

Like the poster above said, people that read guides.

Icy veins says x, people do x. This doesn't make they are mim-maxers. People that optimize secondary stats, use flasks and pots, coordinate to use CDs optimally, etc aren't the majority.

I usually use icy veins and whatnot to follow the main recomendations, but tend to deviate a little if I feel that another option is more fun or adapts better to my playstyle.

[Kumorii]

I don't get the argument. Even if it's true, why is choice bad? Should we remove majority of classes because of min max? Choices doesn't affect min maxers at all. And that's coming from one who enjoys min maxing and try to incorporate that everywhere. Having a choice between covenants doesn't affect me at all. It's for flavour for those who do care about it.

[qwerty123456]

Warlocks and Demon Hunters fit Necrolord perfectly in terms of lore. Demon Hunters sacrifice everything in the name of glory and conquest. They corrupt their very souls with the power of their enemies to gain every advantage they can over them. Warlocks are shunned by their own people for toying with dangerous power that could easily turn on them. They summon these incredibly powerful beings with plans of enslaving them to do their bidding, and just like Demon Hunters they utilize their enemy's power against them. They are the ultimate risk/reward class and that is the Necrolords to a T.

Shamans would fit the Night Fae the best. They have a strong connection to nature and that's really the most basic tie to Night Fae. Rogues are as ambivalent as warriors but would fit Venthyr the most. Outlaws, thieves and assassins. The ones that are repentant would seek redemption for their sins. The others would likely go straight to the Maw.

Demon Hunters don't sacrifice for glory and conquest they do so for revenge and the greater good. Venthyr is a better fit for them imo. Just think of Illidan's "I am my scars" sinstones are the spiritual version of that. Warlocks I would say are Venthyr too. I don't see them wanting to fight in the arena all day but I could see them torturing souls and ordering lesser beings around like the Venthyr do.

Considering the Necrolords had the house of eyes I'd say the rogues fit Necrolord pretty well.

[Azerate]

Necrolord definitely what I think about when I see "Resto Druid"

Love to look at those kinds of statistics, what's the website?

[Skylarking]

There is also the peer pressure effect going on as well. Every hunter is nightfae so if you aren't then people see you as a bad player and troll

[Verdugo]

You've shown an excellent example of what is known as the tyranny of the majority.

Its called democracy, not tyranny.

[tikcol]

Yes, night fae definitely thematically fits my jawless undead fire mage. Especially those fairy wings and blinking around as a fabulous unicorn.

[Tyris Flare]

Love to look at those kinds of statistics, what's the website?

https://www.pvpleaderboard.com/

Crawling info from the API for PvP in all specs, including RBGs and arena.

Very few exception where a given spec isn't 70%+. Many of them are 95%++