Mistake in chronicle 3

[darkoms]

Regarding the Lich King, I wouldn't trust anything from Dave Kosak years ago, especially since he's not only been wrong before, but Shadowlands has also wanked the power of Frostmourne, and other Domination pieces.

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This is wrong. "Arbitrary", like what? So, ignore the fact that we needed the Titan spirits, the Aritfacts, and the Legendaries to help us face Argus? Forget the fact we legit only distracted Deathwing while Thrall and the Aspects were doing the real shit? Ignore the fact that we legit LOST to the Lich King, and only won cause Tirion clutched a victory with his final blessing within both himself and the Ashbringer? IGNORE THE FACT THAT WE'RE CAPABLE OF FIGHTING DENATHRIUS CAUSE OF THE ANIMA AMPS, DOMINATION GEAR AMPS, ETC?!?!

Dude...

I mean, dude, come on now. We definitely had help. Lots of help...

We exist on borrowed power. Cause, reminder, that without borrowed power, we cannot even defeat Nathanos...

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Yeah, Mannoroth is kind of a dumbass. He's strong, but he can easily get slapped when he's distracted. Grom killing him in the main timeline was a shock attack cause Mannoroth downplayed Thrall and Grom to shit, and the second time was when Mannoroth was distracted and arguably blinded by the Iron Star's explosion.

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Doesn't he legit call himself a weakling cause of his stupid ass failures when Gul'dan was tryna resurrect him? We basically face the TRUE, undistracted and unrelenting power of Mannoroth there, and we only won cause of the Legendary Rings clutching us. And reminder that the Legendary Rings are made by the primordial powers of Draenor itself. So, yeah no, Mannoroth is not really weak. He's just dumb.

I don't care much what you think of Kosaka, it's still canon. And where did he go wrong?

I know that Mannoroth is dumb, that does not mean that he is 1 by 1 weaker than the Lich King. Kosak also said that the Lich King is smarter than Lei Shen, but Lei Shen is still stronger.

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damn, once again u manage to ignore all basic logic in favour of your fav characters.
lei shen would definitely not "eat" the LK. hed win, yeah, but it would probably be a good fight, IF daves quote is still considered canon, considering theyve retconned much about the LK this addon.
We know that mannoroth and cenarius fought 1v1. To say it in your words: "Read the Chronicles". Theres literally a picture of them fighting, and it looks pretty equal. Add that plus Mannoroths WC3 quote "Id relish the chance to face him in combat again". Thats not how you talk about someone whos definitely below or above you. Thats how you talk about someone whos roughly on your level.
all in all, go play WC3 and read chonicles vol. 3 again.

Favorite characters? My favorite characters are Azshara, KilJaeden, Maiev, Kindi (Jaina's apprentice if you haven't read Tides of War) and Garrosh before Pandaria. Forgive me that I'm just not happy with what nonsense you are talking about without knowing the ENT. In fact, you are literally twisting the lore to make the Lich King (actually your favorite character) appear stronger. You claim without any reason that the Lich King is MUCH stronger than Mannoroth because of their performance against completely different orcs, whose only common characteristic is the ax.

True? How did you define it? Because I said it to ridicule you saying that Xuen would eat Cenarius. See, it's not very easy to argue when there is absolutely no proof, is it? So how did you determine how difficult the battle between Xuen and Cenarius would be? How did you determine how difficult the battle between the Lich King and Lei Shen will be?
We have no idea about their battle. If you looked CAREFULLY at this art, you would see that it is not only Cenarius and Mannoroth. Demons, dragons, children of Cenarius, night elves and other wild gods fight around them. In fact, you can spot Malorne looking at Mannoroth very angrily. All we see is Mannoroth swinging at Cenarius and Cenarius using some kind of nature spell in Mannoroth's face. We have no idea who had the advantage in this duel and how long it lasted. I said so, Cenarius and Mannoroth are on the same level and MAYBE Cenarius is A LITTLE weaker. See how different this is from your claim that 100% The Lich King is MUCH stronger than Mannoroth? I am not asserting what I am not sure of. I know lore ten times better than you, and you can infinitely accuse me of arrogance, but I know that some things can only be guessed at. Also, it would not be strange for Mannoroth to meet someone who is weaker than him, but whom he hates very much. Mannoroth is not some honorable warrior, he is a destroyer and he is very aggressive. He would like this meeting to unleash his rage on Cenarius. Why should I explain such simple things to you? Did you find out about the character of Mannoroth only from this topic, quickly read about him on Wowpedia and decided that you knew everything about his strength and character?

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Cenarius didn't die to Grommash alone though. A bunch of Orcs were on his ass. Also, Gorehowl isn't really "weak". It's literally refined Orcish steel made into a badass, Warsong weapon. So, Grommash's raw power increasing the force of the Axe is definitely not impossible. I mean, the Axe of Cenarius when wielded by Broxigar was strong enough to bring about a small little cut through Sargeras' titan skin. Sure, it wasn't much of anything, but a cut is a cut.

Also, Cenarius is not like a keeper whatsoever. The Keepers are moreso comparable to Wild Gods, or some shit like that. Cenarius is a step below them.

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Their battle never finished, but sure? Warcraft 3 is a better source in that they were equal.

Implied that both are formidable in power against one another, but Cenarius is crafty and isn't all that open in combat, which arguably gives him an advantage. Power wise though, they're kinda equal, sure. Hell, Tichondrius even states that because Mannoroth's power is also formidable, giving the Orcs more of his blood could actually give them a fighting chance against the lurking Demigod, or, in his words "They would be unstoppable", which in context just means Cenarius won't be able to stop their fury.

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Like I said, Mannoroth isn't weak. He's just dumb, and has underestimated the Orcs twice now in combat.

The chronicles show that Cenarius was killed in a 1v1 battle against Grommash. You also must not forget that Grommash's ax has tremendous power thanks to the hearts of 6 legendary Gronns.
Gorehowl was forged three generations before Grommash inherited it. Grommash's great-grandfather used Gorehowl to kill six legendary gronn. Their hearts were sealed into the blade, granting it untold strength. [1]

The Cenarion Ax is MUCH more powerful than the Gorehowl. Here, read my topic about this and you will understand everything.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...xe-of-Cenarius

Cenarius is actually listed as one of the greatest wild gods in the Chronicles and I think that due to the fact that he inherited the power of Malorne (the strongest wild god), he is stronger than most other wild gods (at least he is stronger than Ursoc because he is more late boss in the raid). And I don't think the person you answered meant the titan Keepers . He just meant the keepers of Azeroth.

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The video provides a good point. It wasn't just Mannoroth's blood - it was dropped into a Moonwell - waters from the original Well of Eternity, blessed by Elune, and corrupted by a Pit Lord. That's powerful juice.

This is not a moon well.
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Fountain_of_Health

[Destructor]

FACTS ABOUT CENARIUS:
1) Cenarius with Malorne are 2 the most powerful Wild Gods
2) He was the the biggest threat to Burning Legion during 3rd War (not dragon aspects, not Stormrage, or Tyrande….but Cenarius). That’s why Archimonde wanted to eliminate him before invasion, because he remembered how big problem Cenarius was for Legion 10 000 years ago
3) Cenarius was the son of Malorne and ELUNE !!!! so his power is at least equal to Malorne. Malorne gave very good fight against Archimonde before he lost …… and what do you think? Did Lich King (Guy with a sword) would be able to fight against Archimonde or Kil Jaeden for longer than 5 seconds? Hahaha….Archimonde > Cenarius >>>>>>>>>>>Lich King. Cenarius would wipe floor with Lich King too. Sylvia has recently showed how overrated the Lich king is.
4) In the War of Ancient during the battle to stop Cenarius Archimonde had to concentrate all legions attack (thousands of demons) into Cenarius because he was killing everything which standed against him
5)His power is equel or even a bit higher than Mannoroth who would crashed Arthas like a child.
6) Cenarius created weapon which hurt Sargeras!
7) Cenarius was master (Shan'do) of Malfurion who is much more stronger than grom 1 vs 1
8) Lich King would beat Grom easily 1vs 1……Lei Shen would beat Lich King (confirmed by Kosak)…….and Cenarius vs Lei Shen 1 vs 1 is still a joke ….Cenarius would rip off Lei Shen’s head easily.

Thats why was needed at least hundreds angry fel orcs to kill Cenarius…… not 1 orc….

[KOUNTERPARTS]

I don't have a copy of Chronicle Volume 3, but I know the wowpedia.org website keeps up to date with the lore and cites all updated lore. On the Cenarius and Grom pages it still reads as "Grom and orcs" killing Cenarius.


Can anybody link the excerpt from Chronicle that apparently says it was a 1v1?

[Gaidax]

Chronicle takes precedence over your personal head canon or whatever slapdash lore that came before it.

That's what is actually there:



So OP is a tad out of context there and Chornicle is fine. Cenarius was given all the bells and whistles, but as stated black on white - it was not enough vs demon blood empowered orcs/Grom.

It's not like some plain ol' orc just did this all by himself - a lot more going on here.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

Chronicle takes precedence over your personal head canon or whatever slapdash lore that came before it.

That's what is actually there:



So OP is a tad out of context there and Chornicle is fine.

Thats why was needed at least hundreds angry fel orcs to kill Cenarius…… not 1 orc….

Well, guess who is wrong.

[darkoms]

FACTS ABOUT CENARIUS:
1) Cenarius with Malorne are 2 the most powerful Wild Gods
2) He was the the biggest threat to Burning Legion during 3rd War (not dragon aspects, not Stormrage, or Tyrande….but Cenarius). That’s why Archimonde wanted to eliminate him before invasion, because he remembered how big problem Cenarius was for Legion 10 000 years ago
3) Cenarius was the son of Malorne and ELUNE !!!! so his power is at least equal to Malorne. Malorne gave very good fight against Archimonde before he lost …… and what do you think? Did Lich King (Guy with a sword) would be able to fight against Archimonde or Kil Jaeden for longer than 5 seconds? Hahaha….Archimonde > Cenarius >>>>>>>>>>>Lich King. Cenarius would wipe floor with Lich King too. Sylvia has recently showed how overrated the Lich king is.
4) In the War of Ancient during the battle to stop Cenarius Archimonde had to concentrate all legions attack (thousands of demons) into Cenarius because he was killing everything which standed against him
5)His power is equel or even a bit higher than Mannoroth who would crashed Arthas like a child.
6) Cenarius created weapon which hurt Sargeras!
7) Cenarius was master (Shan'do) of Malfurion who is much more stronger than grom 1 vs 1
8) Lich King would beat Grom easily 1vs 1……Lei Shen would beat Lich King (confirmed by Kosak)…….and Cenarius vs Lei Shen 1 vs 1 is still a joke ….Cenarius would rip off Lei Shen’s head easily.

Thats why was needed at least hundreds angry fel orcs to kill Cenarius…… not 1 orc….

1. We have no idea how powerful Cenarius is compared to Xuen or Goldrinn or Agamaggan.
2. Aspects of Dragons did not participate in the 3rd war at all, if they were at this moment in Kalimdor, the demons would have no chance at all, which is why Cenarius was the main threat, and also because he was the leader of the forest creatures and he could also collect the remaining wild gods to help mortals.
3. Cenarius inherited power from Malorne, he did not receive power from Elune (Warcraft encyclopedia). He is much weaker than Malorne, as shown in the War of the Ancients.
4. Cenarius crashed into the crowd of demons and he did so when most of the wild gods were already dead. He was one of the last, so Konencho Archimonde ordered to destroy him as quickly as possible.
5. It really is.
6. Not really. Read my post and you will understand what exactly makes the Ax so powerful.
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...xe-of-Cenarius
7. Not really. Malfurion is indeed much stronger in magic, but Grommash is a warrior. It was Cenarius' fault to fight Grommash in close combat and not just kill him with lightning or something.
8. We have no idea Arthas will defeat the corrupted Grommash 1v1 by magic? Yes Easy. But if he fights in melee like Cenarius instead of using magic, he might lose. We have no idea who is stronger than Cenarius or Lei Shen, I don’t understand where you got such information that Cenarius will easily win.

Chronicle 3 explicitly states that Grommash will defeat Cenarius on his own. Its hundreds of orcs fought against night elves and forest creatures.

[Eazy]

But in the Chroniles it's said that Cenarius died because of the army of orcs, there wasn't any 1v1 just with Grommash.

And even in Wc3 if you try to 1v1 with him with just Grommash you'd be dead faster than you can say Lok'thar ogar.

[darkoms]

But in the Chroniles it's said that Cenarius died because of the army of orcs, there wasn't any 1v1 just with Grommash.

And even in Wc3 if you try to 1v1 with him with just Grommash you'd be dead faster than you can say Lok'thar ogar.

Oh realy?
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53071342
orc's supernatrural might
orc's

[Josyel]

lol @ people trying to POWER LEVEL Warcraft Heroes. We are talking about creatures that power fluctuates between ages, their fighting terrain, who summoned them, who is channeling them power, what artifacts they posses in that particular time, etc.

This isnt Dragon Ball, go away.

[StationaryHawk]

But in the Chroniles it's said that Cenarius died because of the army of orcs, there wasn't any 1v1 just with Grommash.

And even in Wc3 if you try to 1v1 with him with just Grommash you'd be dead faster than you can say Lok'thar ogar.

The proof is only a couple posts above your own. Blizzard retcons lore regularly, so there's no reason to be surprised that gameplay from a game released 19 years ago is no longer an accurate depiction of the lore.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

lol @ people trying to POWER LEVEL Warcraft Heroes. We are talking about creatures that power fluctuates between ages, their fighting terrain, who summoned them, who is channeling them power, what artifacts they posses in that particular time, etc.

This isnt Dragon Ball, go away.

But Grom had... to go... even fuRTHER... BEYOND!

aaaAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[TheVaryag]

Cenarius vs Grom ...
In chronicle is written that Grom Hellscream beat Cenarius in 1 vs 1 fight. It is obvioulsly nonsense because entire Warsong clan with hundreds of orcs beat Demigod. Cenarius is nearly as powerful as Archimonde, more powerful than Lich King and probably 10 times stronger than Malfuriion and Illidan. Did the writter of this book read War of Ancients or at least play Warcraft 3? It's funny because in fact Cenarius was fuc*ing huge and muscular but this picture in chronicle suggest that he looked like a dryad with anorexia.

All of the Chronocles Is up in the air since their new Lead Lore guy said "Its from the perschpective of the titanz" instead of you know, being written in stone final lore that Chris Metzen was trying to do. So good job for fucking that up a few years after the last chronocles came out, Steve.

Also don't overthink the power levels, blizzard has always been terribly bad at characters and their powerlevels. Prime example: Sylvanas SOMEHOW defeating Bolvar

[Ardenaso]

Cenarius didn't say whosyourdaddy

The video provides a good point. It wasn't just Mannoroth's blood - it was dropped into a Moonwell - waters from the original Well of Eternity, blessed by Elune, and corrupted by a Pit Lord. That's powerful juice.

that's not a moonwell that's a fountain of health, same stuff Arthas finds in Brill

[Syegfryed]

Cenarius vs Grom ...
In chronicle is written that Grom Hellscream beat Cenarius in 1 vs 1 fight. It is obvioulsly nonsense because entire Warsong clan with hundreds of orcs beat Demigod.

Grom also single handed killed Manoroth, who was more of a match against Cenarius.

Warsong clan didn't had "hundreds" of orcs, as far i remember, and, Grom was juiced by demon blood.

Cenarius is nearly as powerful as Archimonde, more powerful than Lich King

are nuts? i think you are the one committing the mistake here, Cenarius more powerful than lich king and same lv as archimonde is completely nonsensical

[Maljinwo]

Chronicles retconned a lot of shit
. Why are we acting like the story was consistent

[darkoms]

Grom also single handed killed Manoroth, who was more of a match against Cenarius.

Warsong clan didn't had "hundreds" of orcs, as far i remember, and, Grom was juiced by demon blood.




are nuts? i think you are the one committing the mistake here, Cenarius more powerful than lich king and same lv as archimonde is completely nonsensical

Archimonde>Cenarius>Lich King

[Shadowferal]

As long as retcons are a thing, there won't be any consistency.
Sylvanus >>>everybody

[Eazy]

Oh realy?
https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53071342
orc's supernatrural might
orc's

The proof is only a couple posts above your own. Blizzard retcons lore regularly, so there's no reason to be surprised that gameplay from a game released 19 years ago is no longer an accurate depiction of the lore.

Oh. I thought it's "orcs". You are right. Weird though...

[Razion]

Cenarius didn't say whosyourdaddy



that's not a moonwell that's a fountain of health, same stuff Arthas finds in Brill

Weird. Wowpedia cites Fountain of Health as also blessed by Elune via the manual. If anyone has access to the manual, can anyone confirm if these weren't made by Illidan? And if these weren't made by Illidan, does that mean the citizens of Lordaeron were worshiping Elune? Wouldn't that mean Forsaken would have Druids?

[Combatbutler]

Weird. Wowpedia cites Fountain of Health as also blessed by Elune via the manual. If anyone has access to the manual, can anyone confirm if these weren't made by Illidan? And if these weren't made by Illidan, does that mean the citizens of Lordaeron were worshiping Elune? Wouldn't that mean Forsaken would have Druids?

Not all fountains of health are tied to elune, one was. What makes the rest so special is never clarified, also Illidan only every created one well, the new well of eternity.