Making flying better

[Sondrelk]

Flying as it exists in WoW needs to be changed, the version we have is so stupidly broken as a movement option that the only possible way ot balance content around it is to completely remove it.
Alternative movement options completely fail when compared to the option that is mounting up and flying from anywhere.

The current compromise offered players is that flying is disabled entirely until later in an expansion, which does work in giving flying, but doesnt really satisfy either camp. Those who want the convenience of flying only getting it when the content is mostly deprecated, whereas those that doon't want flying to instead focus on better open world content essentially having their preferred version fo the game removed halfway through.

What I then propose is a rework of flying that instead nerfs it in such a way that most of the convenience, in this case quick movement is preserved, with ground content still being a regular part of the game.


Quite simply, flying is now only allowed from set points in a zone.
To help visualize how thios would work imagine the zone of Maldraxxus. In this system flying could for example only be possible starting from the Seat of the Primus, you could then use flying to reach wherever you wanted on the map unhindered, though when you land and engage in content on the ground you would be locked to the ground, necessitating the use of ground mounts, with all the pros and cons that comes with it.

In this way flying could be introduced earlier as the essential factor of ground content being a part of the game is preserved.
Secondly it would also make the rules of flight more transparent. Absolute no-fly zones like Throne of Thunder or Argus would not be ground mounts only because flying is disabled, but instead because there does not exist areas that allow you to start flying.

Another great factor to this version would be that flying could more easily be made easier or harder simply by adding more areas that allow flying in a zone. If Blizzard wants to use, say, the Barrens as a questing zone, they do not need to dismount players who fly, or similar tricks, but instead simply remove the areas in the Barrens that would allow you to start flying, allowing a far more organic and seamless exploration of the world that both allows flying and also doesnt completely undermine the idea of the game being ground based.


Further discussion on alternatives to the current flight system as a whole welcome.

[willtron]

Flying as a concept is fine, personally I think making them the fastest mounts in the game is the issue.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

What they should do with flying is have it available in 9.0 but unlocked with Renown or whatever and make it disabled for War Mode. That's it.

[Sondrelk]

OK... but, why?

Because the current incarnation of flying is beyond broken a movement option.

It is by far the fast means of transportation, has no restrictions placed on where you can start using it, and completely bypasses ground content where the game actually exists.

The kind of flying we have in WoW is pretty much the same as what you might see in "games" like Garry's mod. Even sandbox games that place emphasis on pure catharsis like GTA or Just Cause has more inherent restriction to flying than WoW does.

I don't want the game ot languish because players essentially want the ability to teleport. But I equally don't want flying to be completely removed. What I want is for flying to be reined in so it actually has reasons not to use it that enhance the game.

[munkeyinorbit]

The most boring part of wow is the travel. It actually stops me from wanting to play the game. I don't want to sit down to play the game only to have to wait 5 mins to get my character to where he needs to be and then to spend another 5 mins riding around a mountain. Travelling is not content. It is a barrier.

[Sondrelk]

What they should do with flying is have it available in 9.0 but unlocked with Renown or whatever and make it disabled for War Mode. That's it.

That doesnt fix the problem that the version of Flying we have is completely beyond broken.
There are those that want the game to have really good ground based content and for that content to eb somewhat relevant throughout the game, not just removed halfway because some players don't want to actually play the game.

What I am proposing is an actual compromise that keeps most of the convenience offered by flying as a quick movement option, while at the same time nerfing it in such a way that ground based mounts and contents doesnt suffer massively from it.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

That doesnt fix the problem that the version of Flying we have is completely beyond broken.
There are those that want the game to have really good ground based content and for that content to eb somewhat relevant throughout the game, not just removed halfway because some players don't want to actually play the game.

What I am proposing is an actual compromise that keeps most of the convenience offered by flying as a quick movement option, while at the same time nerfing it in such a way that ground based mounts and contents doesnt suffer massively from it.

Because I don't see it as a problem.

[Sondrelk]

The most boring part of wow is the travel. It actually stops me from wanting to play the game. I don't want to sit down to play the game only to have to wait 5 mins to get my character to where he needs to be and then to spend another 5 mins riding around a mountain. Travelling is not content. It is a barrier.

I am not even sure what to say to that...

Travelling is an essential part of an open-world game. We already have portal everywhere, and this version of flying is as fast as the game can realistically get without allowing instant teleports to anywhere.

[cparle87]

The most boring part of wow is the travel. It actually stops me from wanting to play the game. I don't want to sit down to play the game only to have to wait 5 mins to get my character to where he needs to be and then to spend another 5 mins riding around a mountain. Travelling is not content. It is a barrier.

Hyperbole is not cool. You could get from the most remote side of one zone, fly to another one, and get to the most remote side of another in five minutes.

[Sondrelk]

Because I don't see it as a problem.

YOu don't see it as a problem that some players are so apathetic to the game that they openly admit ot not wanting to engage in it? Surely the game should actually be desigend in such a way that players enjoy it.

You don't get good content if the developers capitulate and allow players to ignore it at every juncture.

[cparle87]

I am not even sure what to say to that...

Travelling is an essential part of an open-world game. We already have portal everywhere, and this version of flying is as fast as the game can realistically get without allowing instant teleports to anywhere.

Sadly this mindset is becoming more and more common. That's the problem with a game becoming mainstream. Instead of people who love and accept MMORPG situations we have people from the gatcha store games and instant gratification phone games and battle arena games demanding that WoW be changed to tailor them.

[baksheesh]

The most boring part of wow is the travel. It actually stops me from wanting to play the game. I don't want to sit down to play the game only to have to wait 5 mins to get my character to where he needs to be and then to spend another 5 mins riding around a mountain. Travelling is not content. It is a barrier.

so in other words you'd rather the whole game was just a lobby with menus which instantly teleports you to content, sorta like dungeon finder on steroids?

[gunnmen01]

There is a by far easier answer to flying. Max level, pathfinder part one....that's it. The people crying about flying, don't have to fly. Those who want to fly should be able to. You don't get to dictate how I enjoy playing the game. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, it's not a broken system. It is a very simple system that works perfectly.

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so in other words you'd rather the whole game was just a lobby with menus which instantly teleports you to content, sorta like dungeon finder on steroids?

There is no "instantly teleporting" when you fly.

[Rendark]

Or how about we unlock it we hit max level/ get loremaster of the new zones. That would work way better.

[Sondrelk]

There is a by far easier answer to flying. Max level, pathfinder part one....that's it. The people crying about flying, don't have to fly. Those who want to fly should be able to. You don't get to dictate how I enjoy playing the game. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel, it's not a broken system. It is a very simple system that works perfectly.

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There is no "instantly teleporting" when you fly.

You don't see it as a problem when a portion of the playerbase actively campaigns for a version of the game where they don't have to play it?

I don't want flying gone, I want flying to not be detrimental to the game.


And honestly, what about the current system works perfectly? Its only a compromise in the jokey ssense that it is a solution that neither party agrees with. We end up with one half of the game where content on the ground matters and is actually a game while one half whines about not being able to skip it, and then another half where those that don't want flying can only lament that a portion of the game has been unceremoniously gouged out.

Make flying something that can actually exist in the game alongside ground travel without having to cater to players that want to skip the game.

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Or how about we unlock it we hit max level/ get loremaster of the new zones. That would work way better.

Why not just make the game a lobby so that those who don't want to engage in the game can just teleport directly to raids.

Players who want flying the current way clearly don't want ot engage in the gameplay part of WoW.

[Myradin]

You don't see it as a problem when a portion of the playerbase actively campaigns for a version of the game where they don't have to play it?

Running through mobs with no collision detection and circling hills is not playing the game anymore than flying above them and landing on a spot that looks decent without pulling 30 of them by accident.

[Sondrelk]

Running through mobs with no collision detection and circling hills is not playing the game anymore than flying above them and landing on a spot that looks decent without pulling 30 of them by accident.

Running on the ground requires a level of understanding of how the map is laid out. You need a basic level of knowledge on where the paths are, possible shortcuts, whether running in a straight line even takes you to where you need to go or if you have to take a more circuitous path.

The mobs themselves can also daze you, giving the players a tiny amount of choice in whether to run through the mobs or around them, this is further emphasized with options given to bypass being dazed altogether.

Most importantly though questing areas can be laid out like miniature maps in themselves, which can organically push for useage of abilities like stealth or freeze trap.


With flying all of this is condensed to "Fly in a straight line unless it is in a cave", and "fly to next mob/node"

[Darknessvamp]

Flying as it exists in WoW needs to be changed...

Yeah no it doesn't and your idea of limited take off points is dreadful. Content being designed around flying is the way forward.

[Sondrelk]

Yeah no it doesn't and your idea of limited take off points is dreadful. Content being designed around flying is the way forward.

How in your opinion can content be designed around flying?

Storm Peaks is something shown as a zone that is designed around flying, but it didnt really od much more than make it impossible to traverse with a ground mount, the problems in questing inherent with flying was still there. You didnt navigate the zone so much as point your character towards the next objective and clicking autorun, and mobs were still completely bypassed.

[Jujudrood]

Hold on... You mean, like, Flight Paths? But not flight paths?
Start in location X, options to fly to Locations A, B, and C?
Am I not reading this right?
So like, instead of talking to the flight master, you just mount when you're "close enough", fly to a place, then ride your ground mount back (or take a regular Flight Path) until you are in the "happy flight zone" and can start up again?
Seems clunky.

At this point, I would just say give it away at the start once you hit max level and finish all the story in each zone (loremaster).
You've seen the game how it was designed, you've walked/ground mounted around and "did the things"; just let the people who want to zip around like the busy little bees that they are do so.
If that's so "breaking" to the game, dial back flight speed so you don't have to worry about people divebombing areas at breakneck speeds.
Hell, make early flight 60% like back in BC (the poor man's version that many of us had to deal with for a while), where you are slower than a ground mount but have the benefit of being able to go up, point, and hit autopilot.