[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Companies making simple sandbox games have staff of over 2k and take 8-9 years to make a single player game, a team of 600 making a space MMO is very small considering the game being made, the game now is nothing close to what they would of made from the kickstarter.

I can think of no game that had 2,000 developers. No, a credits list of over a thousand people does not mean that there were 1,000 developers (like an Assassins' Creed game, which usually has a development studio of no more than a few hundred). Office assistants who turn on the coffee machine are not developers. People who were consulted and given special thanks are not developers. Outsourcing is a very grey area.

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a team of 600 making a space MMO

what

A team this size is near unprecedented.

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Also Brook's law is very much in effect here

[kenn9530]

I can think of no game that had 2,000 developers. No, a credits list of over a thousand people does not mean that there were 1,000 developers (like an Assassins' Creed game, which usually has a development studio of no more than a few hundred). Office assistants who turn on the coffee machine are not developers. People who were consulted and given special thanks are not developers. Outsourcing is a very grey area.

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what

A team this size is near unprecedented.

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Also Brook's law is very much in effect here

It takes more than just developers to make a game, around 10% of the staff CiG have are not developers so yes the team CiG have is still small.

Man it'd take a real idiot to not hire enough people to make the game then. Wouldn't you agree? Maybe there just isn't enough talent in Los Angeles, Austin, Manchester, or Frankfurt?

They have been hiring throughout the whole project, you cant just hire anyone with some basic game development knowledge and there is only so many ppl in each area that could even apply, not many ppl would want to move just for a job either.

There is not an endless supply of devs that are even suitable to apply.

[Edge-]

not many ppl would want to move just for a job either.

In the gaming industry this isn't remotely true. Especially in the areas where their offices are, which are not in the middle of nowhere. LA isn't the biggest tech hub, but it's been growing. Frankfurt similarly has a pretty decent development scene, though I can't say about their UK offices. Austin is one of the big tech hubs in Texas, too.

So they're going where the talent is, and again, the gaming industry is one where people often move around "just for a job", often times because their last job laid them off after a project was complete or the studio closed.

[Littlechamp]

Companies making simple sandbox games have staff of over 2k and take 8-9 years to make a single player game, a team of 600 making a space MMO is very small considering the game being made, the game now is nothing close to what they would of made from the kickstarter.

I know plenty MMOs with less staff and development time so sell your BS somewhere else.

You know nothing about gaming business, just lies.

[Henako]

a year is not a date is it

Hi! I did this the last time you went down this (insane) rabbit hole, but I may as well do it again since this thread is cyclical.

What does the year at the end of a video mean? Also, and maybe more importantly... if a year is not a date, what is it? :3

In the three times I've seen you fall into this lunatic spiral during my time reading this thread, you've never answered this question. It's a habit of yours. You just say things, and when people ask you to qualify what you're saying, you don't answer them.

[kenn9530]

I know plenty MMOs with less staff and development time so sell your BS somewhere else.

You know nothing about gaming business, just lies.

Sandbox MMOs are much easier to develop, space games are very hard to do right so its not BS, otherwise there would be a ton more space games than we have currently.

In the gaming industry this isn't remotely true. Especially in the areas where their offices are, which are not in the middle of nowhere. LA isn't the biggest tech hub, but it's been growing. Frankfurt similarly has a pretty decent development scene, though I can't say about their UK offices. Austin is one of the big tech hubs in Texas, too.

So they're going where the talent is, and again, the gaming industry is one where people often move around "just for a job", often times because their last job laid them off after a project was complete or the studio closed.

Not everyone wants to move house just for a job especially if you have a family and especially currently noone is going to be moving anywhere atm for a job so the past year its probably been very slow at getting new hires for most companies. Manchester is a large city but is nots really a tech focused area as most jobs would be around london but that would be expensive to setup a company there.

[Edge-]

Sandbox MMOs are much easier to develop, space games are very hard to do right so its not BS, otherwise there would be a ton more space games than we have currently.

SC is a sandbox game, dude. And if you're doing it right, they're incredibly complex and difficult.

They're not "not making" space games because they're hard. It's because there's not a market for a huge number of space games. If there's money to be made, companies will go for it.

Anything is hard to "do right", this is nonsense and not remotely based in fact or reality.

[banmebaby]

*snip*

Don't post memes or fake mod messages. Infracted. -Edge

Edited: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...9#post52520969

[Thestrawman]

It takes more than just developers to make a game, around 10% of the staff CiG have are not developers so yes the team CiG have is still small.



They have been hiring throughout the whole project, you cant just hire anyone with some basic game development knowledge and there is only so many ppl in each area that could even apply, not many ppl would want to move just for a job either.

There is not an endless supply of devs that are even suitable to apply.

Funny how that isn't a problem for any other video game company on the face of the planet. But let me guess it's because SC is just too complex for mere mortals to completely understand. That's why CiG can't even manage to hire 100 people a year. Right?

[KrayZ33]

If you assumed it was a release date when they didnt even state is was being released that year then it was just yourself making that assumption, a year is not a release date, the only plan they even put into one of the presentations is the first episode of SQ42 was going to be made available, it is then up to them to decide if they wanted to still do that or not.

If you quote me, at least bother to answer the question and not just say the same thing twice in a row.
The question was "what else was that date supposed to mean/tell us."


Are you in some kind of cult or just some kind of broken robot?

It's not like I expect anything other than garbage from you, but at least try a little.

[kenn9530]

SC is a sandbox game, dude. And if you're doing it right, they're incredibly complex and difficult.

They're not "not making" space games because they're hard. It's because there's not a market for a huge number of space games. If there's money to be made, companies will go for it.

Anything is hard to "do right", this is nonsense and not remotely based in fact or reality.

SC is not defined as a sandbox game, it has similar features but the size of the actual game are far beyond most sandbox games, space games are the hardest to get right, and when you want to add depth it becomes even more challenging, im saying making a game set in a specific map is much easier than creating a universe with massive cities and hundreds of different space ships.

If you quote me, at least bother to answer the question and not just say the same thing twice in a row.
The question was "what else was that date supposed to mean/tell us."


Are you in some kind of cult or just some kind of broken robot?

It's not like I expect anything other than garbage from you, but at least try a little.

Its just an advertisement to buy the game, CiG didnt state anywhere it was actually launching that year, there has been no official release dates mentioned, if it was going to launch that year they would of stated it outright.

Funny how that isn't a problem for any other video game company on the face of the planet. But let me guess it's because SC is just too complex for mere mortals to completely understand. That's why CiG can't even manage to hire 100 people a year. Right?

Hiring appropriate staff is an issue for every single company, the large studios have already got the staff they require for most projects, and the past year with lockdowns also would be very difficult to hire more staff.

[Edge-]

SC is not defined as a sandbox game, it has similar features but the size of the actual game are far beyond most sandbox games, space games are the hardest to get right, and when you want to add depth it becomes even more challenging, im saying making a game set in a specific map is much easier than creating a universe with massive cities and hundreds of different space ships.

Sandbox vs. Theme Park is well trodden territory, this isn't some nebulous, vague notion.

Theme Parks are more akin to WoW - The game primarily just give you things to do. You check out dungeons and events. You kill raid bosses. You run open world missions etc. It's all "hey, do this thing we made for you because we haven't given you the tools to really create your own experiences."

Sandboxes, in contrast, are not games where the primary "content" are tightly designed and specific activities designed to progress you from one set of activities to another. Instead, it mixes in some of those curated experiences alongside expansive tools to create your own gameplay experiences with others.

Like, you talking about how expansive the universe will be is one of the key things in a lot of sandboxes - huge open spaces for players to explore and make their own fun. As compared to the much more tightly designed play-spaces in a theme park.

Its just an advertisement to buy the game

Advertising what though? What year it is? I think we're all aware of that.

You have to be willfully blind to not associate that tagging the inference/implication that it was going to be coming out that year. Hence why they've not kept it up with "2017" and "2018" and "2019" and "2020" and now "2021" tagging on all their videos.

CiG didnt state anywhere it was actually launching that year, there has been no official release dates mentioned, if it was going to launch that year they would of stated it outright.

So...it's just scummy and misleading then? I'm not sure how that's any better, dude.

[KrayZ33]

Its just an advertisement to buy the game, CiG didnt state anywhere it was actually launching that year, there has been no official release dates mentioned, if it was going to launch that year they would of stated it outright.

"What-does-the-2016-mean at the end of an official SQ42 trailer". English - do you speak it?
Are you telling me they made a teaser video for the year 2016 that is unrelated to the game and CR just wanted to inform us that "in 2 months, it's year 2016" - thanks for the heads up CR!

The trailer says "SQ42 2016" though.

Why are you so hung up about them naming a specific date in 2016? The point is that it was planned for it to happen in 2016 and they couldn't make it work.
When someone says "beta is planned to start Q2 of 2020" then it means that the beta is planned and supposed to start somwehere in Q2 2020, if they didn't start the beta in Q2 2020 or even 2020 in general, they failed to meet their plans.
What's so difficult to understand? What is there even to deny?

[Henako]

if it was going to launch that year they would of stated it outright.

They did. That's what the "2016" was at the end of the video

If you disagree with this, tell me what the "2016" at the end of the video means.

[kenn9530]

snip

They have not really done many SQ42 videos anyway since back then just one or two in the past few years, they dont put the year in videos anymore just because ppl like to assume things like a game might be released that year when the company has not stated it anywhere, they may of had a plan to release something that year but it was never officially said regardless.

The game will be ready when its ready, gamers are way too impatient these days and it just leads to dissapointment in the long run, so keep your expectations reasonable, i base all my expectations on the current version of SC.

"What-does-the-2016-mean at the end of an official SQ42 trailer". English - do you speak it?
Are you telling me they made a teaser video for the year 2016 that is unrelated to the game and CR just wanted to inform us that "in 2 months, it's year 2016" - thanks for the heads up CR!

The trailer says "SQ42 2016" though.

Why are you so hung up about them naming a specific date in 2016? The point is that it was planned for it to happen in 2016 and they couldn't make it work.
When someone says "beta is planned to start Q2 of 2020" then it means that the beta is planned and supposed to start somwehere in Q2 2020, if they didn't start the beta in Q2 2020 or even 2020 in general, they failed to meet their plans.
What's so difficult to understand? What is there even to deny?

Its just a year it doesnt mean anything until the company actually states the game will be released in that year, there was no official plan that even the backers were informed about to launch anything in 2016.

There could of been a plan to release something about SQ42 in 2016 but no official statement was released, its still up to the company to decide what they want to do or not, so a year means nothing in a video unless its backed up by the company stating something would release that year.

[Edge-]

They have not really done many SQ42 videos anyway since back then just one or two in the past few years, they dont put the year in videos anymore just because ppl like to assume things like a game might be released that year when the company has not stated it anywhere

Because that's literally what dates at the end of any promotional trailer mean for every other game in existence. Like, literally. It's a scummy as fuck tactic if they knew it wasn't going to launch in 2016, or you're seeking any way to rationalize this not being a launch window in your mind.

The game will be ready when its ready

You cool with that if it's like...2040? Just wonder if there's a cutoff time for your patience or if it's nearly endless.

[KrayZ33]

Its just a year it doesnt mean anything until the company actually states the game will be released in that year, there was no official plan that even the backers were informed about to launch anything in 2016.

?????


it's pretty funny, because you are partially right, there was no "plan" (CR doesn't have a plan)... but an "official plan" nonetheless.

[Edge-]

?????


it's pretty funny, because you are partially right, there was no "plan" (CR doesn't have a plan)... but an "official plan" nonetheless.

Also - https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...happy-new-year

This coming year will be an even bigger year than 2014 – the FPS module will go live to backers, we will be giving our first drops of the Persistent universe, starting with the Planetside social module, the multi-crew Arena Commander and the first Episode of Squadron 42.

Directly from Roberts own blog post, a 2015 target date for SQ42 E1.

[Kyanion]

I can think of no game that had 2,000 developers. No, a credits list of over a thousand people does not mean that there were 1,000 developers (like an Assassins' Creed game, which usually has a development studio of no more than a few hundred). Office assistants who turn on the coffee machine are not developers. People who were consulted and given special thanks are not developers. Outsourcing is a very grey area.

It is kenn and Anderson's usual tactic to list anyone who had anything to do with the creation of a game as a developer.

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Its just a year it doesnt mean anything until the company actually states the game will be released in that year

And there we have it, you have no idea what you're talking about. I guess every other gaming company just does it differently and CIG is out there setting a new trend. Oh by the way, your opinion isn't any kind of official on the record opinion from CIG so stop trying to explain what their actions mean as if you worked for them and know their plans.

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SC is not defined as a sandbox game, it has similar features but the size of the actual game are far beyond most sandbox games

CIG is setting new trends and making up new genres in gaming as well apparently.

Star Citizen: Far beyond most sandbox games. 2016.
Oh whoops silly me can't add the year because it means nothing.

[Jetpistol]

?????


it's pretty funny, because you are partially right, there was no "plan" (CR doesn't have a plan)... but an "official plan" nonetheless.

Bro i cannot believe they actually put that there and I'm glad you found this. There's two sides and one of them will win. It's either believers who think Star Citizen will release or Those who believe it won't come out.

I hope to see the winner soon