Why skilled player got so mad about casual getting better loot?

[arkanon]

If you don't race then why do you need a sportscar? If you're not a food taster why do you need to eat tasty food? If you're not a supermodel why do you need fancy clothes?

Because a sports car is not a race car. Thats an absolutely TERRIBLE comparison. Ironically, your other two comparisons are purely about cosmetics / subjective preference. We have suggested more than one system where solo players have cosmetic rewards to work towards (fancy clothes / tasty food) and they have been rejected outright, because they dont offer any power.

Many want the same rewards as an F1 driver, for doing a few laps, by yourself, with no time limit, and no other cars, on your local kids go-kart track with the speed limit set to 5mph

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Casual != Solo. Casuals do group content all the time.

Again, you must be new to this thread - multiple people are arguing they DO want mythic ilvll gear from SOLO play. You guys dont even know what you want anymore, all you know is you want more of it.

[Lost controller]

Because a sports car is not a race car. Thats an absolutely TERRIBLE comparison. Ironically, your other two comparisons are purely about cosmetics / subjective preference. We have suggested more than one system where solo players have cosmetic rewards to work towards (fancy clothes / tasty food) and they have been rejected outright, because they dont offer any power.

Many want the same rewards as an F1 driver, for doing a few laps, by yourself, with no time limit, and no other cars, on your local kids go-kart track with the speed limit set to 5mph

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Again, you must be new to this thread - multiple people are arguing they DO want mythic ilvll gear from SOLO play. You guys dont even know what you want anymore, all you know is you want more of it.

Can't you get 197 items from solo play? I am wracking my brain to remember the base ilv but you can get pretty close to mythic zero solo.

[arkanon]

Can't you get 197 items from solo play? I am wracking my brain to remember the base ilv but you can get pretty close to mythic zero solo.

Add in your legendary, and a DMF trinket or similar, and you are into the 200s. Someone did the math earlier on, and apparently the number is 206 or 207 without doing any group content, but iirc it included World boss loot, which obviously isnt super common, due to weekly lockout, but it also isnt hard to get, and you can literally just stand around until someone attacks it and get the kill - im reluctant to include it, as I know some clown will jump up and down and say "but you cant SOLO it".

North of 200 for sure.

Edit for clarity - when I say some in this thread are asking for mythic quality loot from solo play, I mean mythic RAID loot - 226 gear, without ever interacting with another player.

[potis]

The current Legendary upgrade system is an example of how gear progression could work across the board. The currency to upgrade items is acquired more quickly by highly skilled players, but given enough chances and effort, more casual players can also upgrade their piece.

Were you blind the first two weeks or what?

"WTS carry to floor 8" spam in Torghast?

Changing it the way you imply will only lead to 1 thing, instead of "WTS weekly chest/AoTC and eventually Mythic" runs, it will just be everywhere, for everything, EVERYTHING.

The problem with the game is only one, it spoilt the players with freebie loot for years and whenever anything "Delays" it, they spasm and panic and call dear murder and dead game.

It doesnt matter if they start giving 230 gear for free, then you people will whine for something else, "Why is KSM mount at +15, put it at +5", "Why is cutting edge mount at Mythic, put it at LFR" with the usual excuse of "OMG I PAY 13E BLIZZARD".

And its not even the majority whining, its literally the % between actual casuals and decent players, its literally all the bads that have been trying for years to prove to everyone else that they arent bad and its someone else at fault that keep crying dear murder at about everything in the game, cause the actually decent players are playing with other decent players and couldnt care less outside of their environment, and the casuals, dont even understand the game well to care about what is happening "Oh this mount is pretty, alt+f4, 5th baby is crying".

[Depakote]

If you don't race then why do you need a sportscar? If you're not a food taster why do you need to eat tasty food? If you're not a supermodel why do you need fancy clothes?

So you don't have an answer to my question, got it.

[munkeyinorbit]

Because I've been kicked from heroic dungeons before.

"Hey everyone, I'm new here so I apologize in advance if I miss anything."
/kick

This didn't happen. You admit to crippling anxiety so you never said this.

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You are of course right, but it also relies on how much spare time you do have.

Try to create a dps toon without a main with 9000 rio, gear up to lets say 170, create a fresh M0 writing in the description “first tries, please be nice” and see how much it does take to start the dungeon. I think at least 30 minutes and I’m being generous. I know this myself because at the end of BfA S1 I went tanking and then healing because I don’t have much time to play and spending 30+ mins to find a group or create one for me is out of discussion. I am now only missing the 8 dungeons at +15 for KSM (everything is 14) but if I wasn’t a healer I would still probably sit somewhere below KSC.

The first question is why? Why would anyone do that? You can get to ilvl 180 with just 5 hours game play. That's all of your armor to 197, your weapon to 183. Your neck to 171 and your rings to 168. All without doing any group content. Zero group content. Buy a trinket for 3k and you have a 200 trinket and a 138 trinket. That's an ilvl of about 189.

Now you are 189, do the same thing. Even with your purposely toxic description and as a dps it'll take 5 mins to create a group.

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The irony is that if WoW had a casual gear progression system like in FFXIV where you could buy a heroic piece of gear every 1-2 weeks by grinding badges from LFG/LFR the minmaxing elitists wouldn't have to deal with "the bads" as they like to call them.

Would they though? Bads generally don't have a good rio score. If you see some guy that's 220 but has a rio of 400 wouldn't that indicate that they might be a bad? Rio is not a perfect system but it gives you some indication of experience. It will also tell you if someone is a mythic raider who doesn't do a lot of dungeons. The information is there and you can use it to make good decisions.

[Frozenbro]

Do we still have people that dont play the game trying to make a point? or we have actual inputs now? no need to say names cause people are that sensitive did they decide what they want finally? they want solo progression? they want mythic ilvl out of wqs? they want to get out of the 200-213 loop? they want shiny cosmetics? or they still dont know what they want and just complain for the sake of it until the game is tailored for them? my bets on the last 1.

[munkeyinorbit]

Because those at the top feel entitled to easy runs when those at the bottom just want a way up but few if anyone are willing to let them in..
But go ahead, refute that with some bad example of how you think 'bad' players play the game.

Bad players are just lazy players. There is a way up. Create your own groups and set your own conditions for entry. If you set realistic standards then people will join your group and you will complete dungeons and increase your key and climb the ladder. Lazy players feel entitled to play at the top while giving no indication that they can actually do it. "Trust me, bro" is not proof you can do the content.

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Skilled players are often alarmed at any sign that Blizzard is moving away from considering them its golden preferred customers.

They really aren't. Skilled players know how to play and they adapt to whatever game style is needed to reach their goals. Skilled players really don't care what the lesser players are doing because they have developed the skills necessary to avoid playing with lesser players unless they truly want to. I would guess that around the end of TBC us when blizzard decided that it was best not to concentrate on these skilled players. There's not many of them and they could make more money by the casualisation if the game.

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lol excessive amount of experience. Oh and yes cause having more people be able to play the game on the level that the higher ups are makes the game better for everyone, at least that's how things work in a mmorpg like World of Warcraft.

No one is arguing against your point. A more experienced community is good for the community. Makes pugging easier. But people can't complain about not being let into groups when their experience shows they are lacking experience. That is exactly like me being upset that I can't join a mythic raid team when I have ilvl 203 and I'm 4\10 normal. I don't have the experience.

[arkanon]

Do we still have people that dont play the game trying to make a point? or we have actual inputs now? no need to say names cause people are that sensitive did they decide what they want finally? they want solo progression? they want mythic ilvl out of wqs? they want to get out of the 200-213 loop? they want shiny cosmetics? or they still dont know what they want and just complain for the sake of it until the game is tailored for them? my bets on the last 1.

Yes, there are still people who openly admit to never even purchasing SL, let alone playing it, telling us how the grouping works, why they are "blocked" from content, why they deserve 226 loot, and how the game could be improved - all from people who have not played the game. We also have an awful lot of name calling and insults coming from ONE side of the discussion, all from frustration as their "argument" is dismantled more and more.

No, they have NOT decided what they want - some want elite pvp gear from random bgs, some want mythic raid loot from WQ, some want to spam heroic dungeons to get mythic ilvl loot, some have an entirely different set of "problems" because apparently, it is literally impossible to pug in wow, even though many of us casually do this daily/weekly without any issue. Its all very strange, to be honest - one side are saying "we just want the loot to reflect the challenge of the content", while the other side are all over the place with insults, name calling, personal attacks, and an array of very different "problems", many of which only they encounter, while the rest of us enjoy the game.

[munkeyinorbit]

When? Look at every anti casual system since AP. Blizzard hasn't pandered to casuals since... I wanna say cata? Ever since then its been getting harder and harder to clear end game content on limited amounts of time. They keep adding bullshit grinds for no lifers to drag out the game rather then letting casuals clear mythic and move on to alts.

Nothing stopped casuals from clearing mythic except for their own skill. "Mandatory" grinds is a red herring. The truth is that people just aren't good enough to clear mythic.

[Frozenbro]

Yes, there are still people who openly admit to never even purchasing SL, let alone playing it, telling us how the grouping works, why they are "blocked" from content, why they deserve 226 loot, and how the game could be improved - all from people who have not played the game. We also have an awful lot of name calling and insults coming from ONE side of the discussion, all from frustration as their "argument" is dismantled more and more.

No, they have NOT decided what they want - some want elite pvp gear from random bgs, some want mythic raid loot from WQ, some want to spam heroic dungeons to get mythic ilvl loot, some have an entirely different set of "problems" because apparently, it is literally impossible to pug in wow, even though many of us casually do this daily/weekly without any issue. Its all very strange, to be honest - one side are saying "we just want the loot to reflect the challenge of the content", while the other side are all over the place with insults, name calling, personal attacks, and an array of very different "problems", many of which only they encounter, while the rest of us enjoy the game.

Its honestly hilarious how they dont even know what they want, they just know that they dont like the system cause it doesnt fit their gearing needs, which is fair until you read their reasoning, then you start trying to ask them what they would change, how to make the system better or what would be a first step towards making things better and they go "its just elitist pricks gatekeeping content cause us casuals cant have the good shit" and you are like ok what? xd i guess people that play on high end will forever be at fault until they step up their game

[Lost controller]

Nothing stopped casuals from clearing mythic except for their own skill. "Mandatory" grinds is a red herring. The truth is that people just aren't good enough to clear mythic.

This isn't true...you know that right?

No end boss died without bis corruptions, maxed ap, maxed conduits to claim otherwise makes you a fool or a liar but its one of the two.

[Revamp Man]

Its honestly hilarious how they dont even know what they want, they just know that they dont like the system cause it doesnt fit their gearing needs, which is fair until you read their reasoning, then you start trying to ask them what they would change, how to make the system better or what would be a first step towards making things better and they go "its just elitist pricks gatekeeping content cause us casuals cant have the good shit" and you are like ok what? xd i guess people that play on high end will forever be at fault until they step up their game

can someone just carry them to CE for free so they can stop whining
"elitists are keeping us from content"
meanwhile the elitists made their own groups and found guilds which is something these guys refuse to do
"i shouldnt have to make my own group you should invite me and teach me how to do a +15"
meanwhile how many depleted keys did we go through to get 1 15??

literally just carrying them 24/7 is the only way to make them happy

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This isn't true...you know that right?

No end boss died without bis corruptions, maxed ap, maxed conduits to claim otherwise makes you a fool or a liar but its one of the two.

youre right
world first requires that

[Echocho]

Judging by the toxicity of the elitists in this very thread I don't understand why any self respecting casual would ever want to play with them in the first place.

[arkanon]

Judging by the toxicity of the elitists in this very thread I don't understand why any self respecting casual would ever want to play with them in the first place.

The only toxicity I have seen is from you and your mates - insults, name calling, rude and offensive language - this is all from one side of the argument - yours.

[Frozenbro]

Judging by the toxicity of the elitists in this very thread I don't understand why any self respecting casual would ever want to play with them in the first place.

Cause the elitists you speak of arent actually good players themselves, hence why they feel some threat whenever casuals get better gear progression, but i know you refuse to believe this since just like all of the self proclaimed casuals, everything is toxic outside of their bubble, and for the record anyone can actually play on high end if they want to, they just refuse to, i started on private servers myself, then moved on to Blizz being a complete noob on top of being from Ragnaros-US, and despite all that i still get CE just fine, so whenever people play the victim card of how hard its to pug or to build your path towards mythic and blablabla i just straight up dont believe in their exaggerations, its laugh worthy, they are actually claiming they cant play on high end and/or pug meanwhile as a Ragnaros-US DH i did both, hilarious.

[arkanon]

Its honestly hilarious how they dont even know what they want, they just know that they dont like the system cause it doesnt fit their gearing needs, which is fair until you read their reasoning, then you start trying to ask them what they would change, how to make the system better or what would be a first step towards making things better and they go "its just elitist pricks gatekeeping content cause us casuals cant have the good shit" and you are like ok what? xd i guess people that play on high end will forever be at fault until they step up their game

Myself and others being labeled as "elitist assholes" have also offered multiple options and alternative gearing methods - all rejected.
We have said to those who are not playing the game and never have that their fears are unfounded, and that many of us, some who have never even touched Rio, have none of the issues they are describing - rejected.
We have encouraged them to seek out like minded individuals, guilds, and social groups - rejected.
Some have even gone so far as to hunt down and recommend guilds that are specifically built around people with social issues etc - rejected.

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Cause the elitists you speak of arent actually good players themselves, hence why they feel some threat whenever casuals get better gear progression, but i know you refuse to believe this since just like all of the self proclaimed casuals, everything is toxic outside of their bubble, and for the record anyone can actually play on high end if they want to, they just refuse to, i started on private servers myself, then moved on to Blizz being a complete noob on top of being from Ragnaros-US, and despite all that i still get CE just fine, so whenever people play the victim card of how hard its to pug or to build your path towards mythic and blablabla i just straight up dont believe in their exaggerations, its laugh worthy, they are actually claiming they cant play on high end and/or pug meanwhile as a Ragnaros-US DH i did both, hilarious.

I think there is a "one set of rules for us, one for them" situation here - "they" hate being referred to as casuals, and constantly argue that "casual does not mean bad!", but in the same reply, will label anyone who does any organized content at all as an "elitist asshole gatekeeping no life try hard", while un-ironically calling THEM toxic.

[Merin]

Literally a 16 year old argument. Do the content or go without.

This should be the tagline of the expansion, as we sit struggling to find a reason to care about Torghast, callings, or an enormous year(s)-consuming anima grind for slight palette swaps on gear.

...Don't do them, then? Torghast is like 30 mins a week, the rest is literally able to be fully ignored. I think this expansion has been nice in drawing a line between option and mandatory content and offering a reasonable variety.

I do what I want in a given week, I have very good gear, I got the cosmetics and features I want and ignored the ones I don't. I know this gets in the way of acting like a screeching pissbaby on a forum but it's a good solution.

Judging by the toxicity of the elitists in this very thread I don't understand why any self respecting casual would ever want to play with them in the first place.

Why the flying fuck would they want to play with you?

[arkanon]

Why the flying fuck would they want to play with you?

"Hey, you toxic asshole, you elitist no lifer, you complete tryhard.........can I please come to your group? no? why not!!!!! This community is so toxic!"

Honestly, I have only seen toxicity from one side of this argument, and it is NOT the ones who want loot to reflect the content it was obtained from.

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Literally a 16 year old argument. Do the content or go without.

That cant be right.......this is a problem that has only happened in SL - I know, because thats the core of their argument.

[munkeyinorbit]

This isn't true...you know that right?

No end boss died without bis corruptions, maxed ap, maxed conduits to claim otherwise makes you a fool or a liar but its one of the two.

There are plenty of kills of mythic end bosses that don't require you to grind and grind. There are plenty of times where a time casual guild has been able to defeat a final boss without grinding. More then the top 10 guilds in the world clear mythic. You can get your neck or your corruptions or your esscences or your neck level or your artifact traits to the appropriate level without grinding AND still clear mythic. It's called playing the game. Just because YOU can't doesn't mean it's impossible. Please leave the name calling out of it.

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Judging by the toxicity of the elitists in this very thread I don't understand why any self respecting casual would ever want to play with them in the first place.

TIL that calmly explaining how you can make your own groups with your own requirements to get the gear that you want is toxic. As a self respecting casual I barely have any problem with the "elitists". It's my key and I can kick or invite anyone I want. All issues resolved.