{TV} The Falcon and the Winter Soldier

[PACOX]

Im going to need season 2.

Thats right Disney, Im going to need you to run that season 2, now.

New theory floating around

Sharon is a skrull

[Sidiusss]

A very interesting serial from Marvel !! I'm waiting today to watch 6 episodes ))

[MrLachyG]

yeah i'm more inclined to believe it's someone else as that would just be too in your face an answer. I mean the powerbroker isn't even really doing too much that is nefarious from what i've seen, it's just someone else behind the scenes and they clearly don't like the "bad guys" because they interfered with their serum business. Sharon seems like she cares, but she doesn't where she more cares about having her name cleared. If she was the powerbroker she wouldn't need her name cleared nor would she even remotely care and would probably ask something different of sam and bucky. Instead she specifically tells them she wants only that they exonerate her for giving the shield and wings in civil war as she got screwed over for it.

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she literally says she used her connections to do all of that and she clearly had some skills as she was spying on steve in ws and multiple other instances of what she can pull off. It's been years since cw where she had to hide and get herself secure. Cia would not have been doing much in terms of dealing with her during the 5 years. Once again you claim the satellites and seem to forget what just happened in terms of governments.

called it! Sharon was indeed the Power Broker

[eschatological]

Just like with the WandaVision finale, I feel like Marvel's action sequences undercut the themes these two shows have been trying to put on paper.

Like, the last episode was such a slow burn that this felt a bit rushed. And then the pacing screeched to a halt while Sam stated the themes of the show to the audience because I guess in Marvel themes have to be explicitly said to the audience. Yeah, we got the idea that the black experience was similar to the experience that drove Karli to create the Flag-Smashers. I did like the cheeky inclusion of "thug" after "terrorist" and whatever else Sam said, because while the lecture was overt, that subtle dig at how people dehumanize black criminals as thugs was on point. Obviously "thug" hadn't been uttered once in the show, but by tying it to the constant labeling of "terrorist" it drove the point home, if a bit too obvious for my taste.

Suit looks good, straight from the 2014 comic, Sam claimed the name immediately, that was good. The "Oh hey it's the Black Falcon!" "Naw, that's Captain America" sequence was cheesy as hell, but that's Marvel for you. Apparently the whole black community was calling Sam the Black Falcon.

Val definitely seems to be going with her "Nick Fury's GF/SHIELD agent" arc, for now, as opposed to a Madame HYDRA arc.

John Walker definitely somehow is an anti-hero now, right? They softened him a lot in this final episode, almost a mini-redemption. I definitely thought he was going to chase and kill Karli as opposed to grabbing the truck, which was the "right" thing to do, vs. the vengeful thing to do. They undercut his deep descent into madness pretty hard, and his last scene where he was giddy to be back in the game, as if he'd just been named starting QB on his football team, was weird as fuck. All his trauma seemed to instantly disappear, even before he had the pensive listen to Sam's speech.

Even the emotional underpinning of Bucky's confession to the old Asian dude was undercut.

The Sharon thing is still super weird to me. I simply don't understand her motivations to do what she's doing. Or why no one saw through it.

All in all, a very weird finale, imo.

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Sharon is a skrull

I double blinked at this shit. Both the tech she used there, and the tech the Flag-Smashers were using to seal the truck shut/gas the chambers seemed.....well, not U.S. gov't based, or any tech known in the MCU as of yet. Like, Bucky had trouble ripping the door off the prison truck because of one of these damn things. I kept muttering to myself, "What the fuck is this tech?"

Another weird thing: John Walker doing a Lincoln quote when they captured these guys. We're doing quips now, roid rage dude?

[Darththeo]

Outside of a few scenes, I feel the finale was the weakest of the episodes. It wasn't bad, just felt rush to me to resolve everything. I think the series could have benefited from either a longer finale or another episode.

[segara82]

The flagsmashers and Batroc hold the GRC hostages, making demands, maybe killing one. Got that right
Heroes show up, with Sam finally claiming the title of Captain America. And that one
Cap and Bucky will get to kick ass until Walker of course crashes the rescue operation. Still right, but not exactly as i thought Clash of the Caps, Sam with a new costume and the OG shield, Walker with his selfmade costume and shield, the flagsmashers will get decimated but Karli gets away, most likely picked up by one of Sharon Carters henchmen, revealing Sharon as the Powerbroker. Half right, half wrong. No clash, and all Flaggers die. But still, Batroc covers their escape, and Sharon gets revealed as the PB

Walker will lose, and gets nabbed/rescued by the Contessa and her new Hydra. Got that wrong, US Agent is officialy a hero?
At the end of it Sam will be lauded by the public and rescued politicians, keep the shield and title of CA. Duh
And the last shot we will see of our heroes will be them cruising in the fixed ship around, trading quips and insults. Standing on the pier, close enough

If we are really lucky Cheadle will make a guest appearance again as War Machine.

Sadly, not guest appearance.

[Aurrora]

called it! Sharon was indeed the Power Broker

It's such an asspull though, the whole thing is predicated on Steve not giving a shit about her for 6 years.

[Xykotic]

There's some weird quirks in this show, but I liked it quite a bit. Better than I expected, same as Wandavision really. Both started kinda weak and grew on me too.

[formerShandalay]

I sure hope they'll be doing the Captain America and the Winter Soldier series now^^ Maybe making Bucky a fully fledged White Wolf and the third season can be Captain America and the White Wolf

The shot of Sam pushing up the truck was absolutely stunning, I loved it.

Bucky got his superhero landing, yay!

[s_bushido]

Sam turtling up to bounce the helicopter off of his shield/wings: Fuck you, that wasn't awesome, or anything!

Isaiah walking into that room in the museum: Fuck you, I'm not crying, or anything!

[formerShandalay]

I wouldn’t mind the next series being Cap and the Winter Soldier before Cap and the White Wolf. Ayo did say to stay away from Wakanda for a little while, so it’d make a lot of sense for Bucky to still be the Winter Soldier next time... I’d try to predict what story they could tell, but I feel like we gotta wait for Dr. Strange before we really have a clue as to where the MCU stands in Phase 4. All of this is building up to some crazy shit.



Perfect setup for Isaiah to tell his story through flashbacks in his own mini-series.

My idea would be the White Wolf being one of the Wakandan operatives within America, working largely with Captain America stopping international threats... something like that. He wouldn't have to be in Wakanda apart from the occasional visit maybe until he can officially come back.

And yea, maybe a series about Eli Bradley coming into the Avengers (or whatever they'll do with him) and he tells his grandfather's story.

@s_bushido Sam pushing the truck and Isaiah watching on TV and later in the museum was like... who's cutting onions.

Although I have to admit even John Walker dropping the shield to save the hostages brought a tear to my eye. That was just beautiful.

[Vakir]

Good, but super rushed. Particularly, Walker did near to a 180. Odd, since this is one of the shorter episodes after the slow burn of last week. They could have afforded more time to the resolution with Bucky's amends, Walker's semi-face turn (and spontaneously healed arm), and how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days when there should have been insane amounts of pushback. And all of these would be non-effects scenes, so it should've been easy to write around.

[s_bushido]

how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days

There's nothing really stopping those scenes with Isaiah from being weeks later. And just from an optics point of view, it would have probably been in the museum director's best interest to not push back too much against a request like that from the new Captain America.

[MrLachyG]

Good, but super rushed. Particularly, Walker did near to a 180. Odd, since this is one of the shorter episodes after the slow burn of last week. They could have afforded more time to the resolution with Bucky's amends, Walker's semi-face turn (and spontaneously healed arm), and how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days when there should have been insane amounts of pushback. And all of these would be non-effects scenes, so it should've been easy to write around.

To be fair when he killed that guy he was enraged at the death of his friend. Definitely wasn’t thinking clearly. So between that and the final episode he obviously had time to reflect and choose his path.

[Darththeo]

Good, but super rushed. Particularly, Walker did near to a 180. Odd, since this is one of the shorter episodes after the slow burn of last week. They could have afforded more time to the resolution with Bucky's amends, Walker's semi-face turn (and spontaneously healed arm), and how the hell Isaiah managed to get an exhibit and statue within what appeared to be a few days when there should have been insane amounts of pushback. And all of these would be non-effects scenes, so it should've been easy to write around.

Super Soldier serum explains the healing.
We don't fully know how much time had passed.

But, otherwise, I agree. The ending felt rushed.

[Ayirasi]

I was mildly disappointed with how quickly and neatly everything tied up, but I enjoyed the series overall.

Less than half of my tongue in cheek predictions panned out, but I was highly caffeinated when I wrote it... so jittery, I'm surprised I didn't phase through the keyboard.

New suit looks dope. Sam showed off a lot of skill and improv with the shield. Good Cap. I'm convinced.

Wasn't expecting Walker to not go full evil. Maybe next time we see him.

That last scene with Isaiah made me want to see more stuff with a younger him.

Still not convinced Sharon's Power Broker after the mid credits. Reporting to someone doesn't seem very Power Brokery. Maybe I'm just trippin.

Bring on Loki! /shakesfist

Sam turtling up to bounce the helicopter off of his shield/wings: Fuck you, that wasn't awesome, or anything!

That was awesome, as was digging his wings into the ground when he blocked Karli's to anchor himself against punches.

[Zaktar]

Outside of a few scenes, I feel the finale was the weakest of the episodes. It wasn't bad, just felt rush to me to resolve everything. I think the series could have benefited from either a longer finale or another episode.

Maybe, they also could have cut the action by like 40%, scaled back Sam's lecture to the government (that speech having an effect is one of the biggest fantasy elements of the series), and wrapped everything up more neatly. I think if you tried to split this episode in two and fill it out, you would end up with two much more boring episodes. The only thing that needed a significantly more development was Walker's turn. I think it was supposed to be a twist, but it felt more like he uses a coin toss in lieu of an ethical code.

[formerShandalay]

Maybe, they also could have cut the action by like 40%, scaled back Sam's lecture to the government (that speech having an effect is one of the biggest fantasy elements of the series), and wrapped everything up more neatly. I think if you tried to split this episode in two and fill it out, you would end up with two much more boring episodes. The only thing that needed a significantly more development was Walker's turn. I think it was supposed to be a twist, but it felt more like he uses a coin toss in lieu of an ethical code.

To me that speech seemed really important. And I agree, that in a realistic sense it would not work the way it did here, unless you take into account that it was also delivered on live TV and the senators all had gone through quite the 'adventure' right before it, so Sam was able to get some wishes in, before they go back to business as usual.
But what I found important about it, was that it put the 'terrorist' accusation into perspective. And the fact that there were council members from all over the world there made it so it's not a 'murica bad! speech, but it was a plea to all the governments out there who have to put half their countries in prison or kill their people, just so they can keep power or push through legislation, all while calling them 'terrorists' and justifying everything with it. And while it won't work on those governments either, of course, it does maybe succeed in making a few viewers think about it and talk about it, which might lead to them not buying everything they are being fed about government vs terrorists through propaganda without at least for a second remembering that scene.
It's just a movie and so that's not going to be enough to bring about any real change, but I do think that every little push counts, every small sympathy towards other people's plea is a good thing.
And that there's no easy answers to that is also an important message to get across.

[Zaktar]

To me that speech seemed really important. And I agree, that in a realistic sense it would not work the way it did here, unless you take into account that it was also delivered on live TV and the senators all had gone through quite the 'adventure' right before it, so Sam was able to get some wishes in, before they go back to business as usual.
But what I found important about it, was that it put the 'terrorist' accusation into perspective. And the fact that there were council members from all over the world there made it so it's not a 'murica bad! speech, but it was a plea to all the governments out there who have to put half their countries in prison or kill their people, just so they can keep power or push through legislation, all while calling them 'terrorists' and justifying everything with it. And while it won't work on those governments either, of course, it does maybe succeed in making a few viewers think about it and talk about it, which might lead to them not buying everything they are being fed about government vs terrorists through propaganda without at least for a second remembering that scene.
It's just a movie and so that's not going to be enough to bring about any real change, but I do think that every little push counts, every small sympathy towards other people's plea is a good thing.
And that there's no easy answers to that is also an important message to get across.

Well my only original point was that it was too long and comes across as very silly; you could buy some character development and better wrap-up by cutting that speech in half, and I think you could cut it in half without losing any significant message.

As to the rest of your point, I agree and I don't. Labeling them as terrorists was fine, they used murder and fear to achieve their political goals, they are terrorists. To me the show could have made its point more solidly if it highlighted a parallel organization working toward the same goals, who got a seat at the table in the global council or whatever it was and that was what moved things forward. Saying "we should listen to these violent extremists because they were willing to kill and die for their beliefs" is a) not a great idea and b) not something that actual people in power would respond to, since it encourages more violence. The point that what these governments was doing is wrong could have been made without supporting her actions.

I do understand what you're saying, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's worth trying to understand the root causes for people who take these kinds of actions and trying to solve those root causes. Ultimately the world would be a better place if we could listen to one another more effectively, even to those who use the worst kinds of tools to try to amplify their message, but the way this was framed was not so good.

[formerShandalay]

Well my only original point was that it was too long and comes across as very silly; you could buy some character development and better wrap-up by cutting that speech in half, and I think you could cut it in half without losing any significant message.

As to the rest of your point, I agree and I don't. Labeling them as terrorists was fine, they used murder and fear to achieve their political goals, they are terrorists. To me the show could have made its point more solidly if it highlighted a parallel organization working toward the same goals, who got a seat at the table in the global council or whatever it was and that was what moved things forward. Saying "we should listen to these violent extremists because they were willing to kill and die for their beliefs" is a) not a great idea and b) not something that actual people in power would respond to, since it encourages more violence. The point that what these governments was doing is wrong could have been made without supporting her actions.

I do understand what you're saying, and I wholeheartedly agree that it's worth trying to understand the root causes for people who take these kinds of actions and trying to solve those root causes. Ultimately the world would be a better place if we could listen to one another more effectively, even to those who use the worst kinds of tools to try to amplify their message, but the way this was framed was not so good.

I agree of course that when you're at the point of people bombing stuff you're in actual terrorist territory and Karli definitely deserved that label. But as you said, it's about the question of how did it get to that and also about how many people are there in any given movement that just agree and maybe support and not don't use violence, like the guys in the first episode that gave the flagsmashers shelter. As Sam said, if it's half your country, maybe you should question if there's something you forgot to take into account instead of just labelling everyone terrorists. Because as we all know, the line between 'freedom fighter' and 'terrorist' is very thin and mostly dependent on viewpoint. Although that too is an easy answer and well... as we already said, it's not usually that easy.

I guess the main point I wanted to make was that I personally indeed find it fine and important if a show that wants to raise questions and make people talk that it also delivers some perspective and find it especially impressive if it does so without then also touting easy answers. Which is why I found the dialogue/speech with the councilors important. And while I wrote in my 'prediction' post that I'd like for the main senator to go to prison, I also thought it was very good that he was shown here without actually being vilified in the scene itself (apart from what he already effed up himself beforehand)