Winter Queen's Sister Reveal (Spoilers)

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

Anyone that wants to see everything leading up to it can watch it here:

[huth]

[IMG]Elune is the Winter Queen's sister. Sadly I think this confirms she's not a First One. There goes my theory.

Well, it leaves the issue that we have little idea about what exactly the Winter Queen herself is. She seems somewhat different from the other Eternal Ones in nature. For one, her place is the only one that wasn't intentionally created to harbour mortal souls and she was actually somewhat surprised when they started showing up.

[Rozz]

I'm genuinely surprised people didn't think it was Elune... I can't remember the exact quest phrase, but it seemed overly familial to be referring to someone as distant as the titans.

[Darknessvamp]

Ouch terrible reveal, more of the 'try to ground this shit by giving it flimsy ties to the original lore' as in 'The Winter Queen's was always Elune's sister, you just didn't know about her existence because she didn't exist until now'. To be frank I was hoping the sister reveal wasn't going to be Elune or Eonar and the sister's pet thing was in some way a reference to the fact she was a Dragon not because she ended up with a blessing of Nature and linked to the Dream by titans. Now it just makes even less sense.

Edit: Oh wow it's even worse than I thought, just round up three conveniently located Night Warriors from all over the Shadowlands (e.g. three of the zones this expansion takes place in), which includes the Stonewright of all people, ask them to come stand around Tyrande to leech her of Elune's wrath and just solve all her problems after beating her up and causing a Tear of Elune to materialise. Never mind such an artifact wasn't even present in her transformation in the first place suggesting that the Tear of Elune isn't a Titan Pillar of Creation but the remains of when a Night Warrior isn't a Night Warrior anymore and just ignore that Ysera's purification of the Emerald Nightmare Corruption and return to the Emerald Dream (and subsequently Ardenweald when it got made up for this expansion) was due to the Tear of Elune. Also apparently Tyrande being turned into a Night Warrior and going to the Shadowlands was all planned by Elune in advance to show the Winter Queen "her sister hadn't abandoned her" because the Tear of Elune can apparently be used on the Heart of the Forest.

What is this trashfire?

[TriHard]

It was never confirmed, just speculated. Most people thought she was referring to Eonar or someone we don't know.

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Can you try not to turn this thread into a Danuser hate group, please?

Uhhh, her sister's pet is literally a confirmation right there.

[Logwyn]

So...

HOW FUCKIN POWERFUL ARE THESE FIRST ONES?!

So powerful that it takes a group of 10 Champions to kill one.

[Le Conceptuel]

Another Danuser rant? Oh wow, the Titans aren’t the top power of WoW, big deal...

The reason why it's irritating is because these characters not only lack flavor or nuance enough to carry the top of the power structure, but also because it seems to be completely pointless. They're just the Titans, but not the Titans. It's Danuser adding some new nonsense for the sake of adding things which are identical to previous things save that they're bigger.

[Gnome Wicked]

Oh wow, the Titans aren’t the top power of WoW, big deal...

This is a simple case of crying wolf. The more you conduct "but wait, there's ANOTHER mysterious rando" power hierarchy switcheroos, the more you dilute the meaning of power levels and power in general. Thus, from the players' perspective, you continually devalue their past 'heroic' achievements. Not to mention the lore perspective, where the coexistence of these powers makes less and less sense

[Hitei]

Uhhh, her sister's pet is literally a confirmation right there.

Ysera is much more Eonar's pet than Elune's. She (like the other aspects) was turned into a dragon in the first place by the titan pantheon, her power was specifically a blessing from Eonar, she was put to sleep and put in charge of the Emerald Dream by Eonar, who's the one who largely oversaw it's creation. I think people often forget, but Elune herself is not really much of a druid god, where druidism is the entire thing Ysera was built around--her son Cenarius is (and he's implied to get that druid connection from his father, Malorne who was involved with the dream and the powers of the wild)

Really Ysera's only involvement, at all, with Elune was Elune basically killing/cleansing her in Val'sharah, something that happens at a temple to Elune when her favorite priestess is there.

So combined with the fact that the Eternal Ones are continually described as being a similar thing to the titan pantheon and of a similar level and make, it made much more sense that Ysera's owner and WQ's sister was Eonar, who is basically a mirrored "life" reflection of the Winter Queen, does the other half of taking care of nature, and is the one who effectively made and employed Ysera, than Elune, who has always been depicted as something not really anything like a Titan or Eternal One, and has almost no connection to Ysera.

[Magical Mudcrab]

The reason why it's irritating is because these characters not only lack flavor or nuance enough to carry the top of the power structure, but also because it seems to be completely pointless. They're just the Titans, but not the Titans. It's Danuser adding some new nonsense for the sake of adding things which are identical to previous things save that they're bigger.

It's turtles, man. Turtles all the way down (or I guess up, in this case).

[Rozz]

Ysera is much more Eonar's pet than Elune's. She (like the other aspects) was turned into a dragon in the first place by the titan pantheon, her power was specifically a blessing from Eonar, she was put to sleep and put in charge of the Emerald Dream by Eonar, who's the one who largely oversaw it's creation. I think people often forget, but Elune herself is not really much of a druid god, where druidism is the entire thing Ysera was built around--her son Cenarius is (and he's implied to get that druid connection from his father, Malorne who was involved with the dream and the powers of the wild)

Really Ysera's only involvement, at all, with Elune was Elune basically killing/cleansing her in Val'sharah, something that happens at a temple to Elune when her favorite priestess is there.

So combined with the fact that the Eternal Ones are continually described as being a similar thing to the titan pantheon and of a similar level and make, it made much more sense that Ysera's owner and WQ's sister was Eonar, who is basically a mirrored "life" reflection of the Winter Queen, does the other half of taking care of nature, and is the one who effectively made and employed Ysera, than Elune, who has always been depicted as something not really anything like a Titan or Eternal One, and has almost no connection to Ysera.

The heavy ties to night, celestial symbolism, Ysera's bond and protective nature for Elune's children, Elune showing her favor by saving what she could of her soul in her final moments, the very cinematic playing during Ysera's questline, and character recency bias were enough to convince me that they were talking about Elune.

I can see why Eonar was a popular theory, but there were enough bread crumbs to make it only slightly less surprising than Denathrius siring the Nathrezim. I'm conflicted on if I'm okay with the outcome though. They really don't know what they want to do with Elune.

[Kyphael]

I think that very much depends on if Danuser makes them his virtual harem or not. Seeing as his undead waifu was elevated from running away from Kel'thuzad while she has backup to literally annihilating Bolvar and his army of undead, if they are kawaii enough their power may simply be limitless.

This is the most correct post this thread will see.

[Hitei]

The heavy ties to night, celestial symbolism, Ysera's bond and protective nature for Elune's children

What heavy ties to night or celestial symbolism?And I'll remind you again that the dream/sleep aspects of Ysera's character are Eonar's influence, not Elune's. Ysera's bond and protective nature is for the Night Elves as Night Elves, who again, are tied to the dream not through Elune (who doesn't really have much of a connection to it) but through druidism via Cenarius. It's not because they worship Elune.

Elune showing her favor by saving what she could of her soul in her final moments, the very cinematic playing during Ysera's questline, and character recency bias were enough to convince me that they were talking about Elune.

These "three" things are all just one thing, what happened in Val'sharh, which was my entire point. The only thing Elune has ever really had to do with Ysera is showing up to put her down. So how is Ysera her pet and not Eonar's who "raised", "trained" and "housed" her?

[Trumpcat]

I double checked the date of the thread... The Winter Queen's sister was revealed in the first week of the expansion with the Ardenweald storyline as well as spam clicking Winter Queen for extra voice lines.

Did I miss anything that cast doubt on that so it needed to be revealed again?

[huth]

The heavy ties to night, celestial symbolism, Ysera's bond and protective nature for Elune's children, Elune showing her favor by saving what she could of her soul in her final moments, the very cinematic playing during Ysera's questline, and character recency bias were enough to convince me that they were talking about Elune.

I can see why Eonar was a popular theory, but there were enough bread crumbs to make it only slightly less surprising than Denathrius siring the Nathrezim. I'm conflicted on if I'm okay with the outcome though. They really don't know what they want to do with Elune.

Eh, that mostly means that up till now, it could have gone either way. There's no clear lead in either direction and enough hints to justify both.

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I double checked the date of the thread... The Winter Queen's sister was revealed in the first week of the expansion with the Ardenweald storyline as well as spam clicking Winter Queen for extra voice lines.

Did I miss anything that cast doubt on that so it needed to be revealed again?

Yes, you missed the part where it wasn't at all confirmed back then who she was referring to and many people took it to mean Eonar, with some even suggesting Lady Moonberry.

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

I double checked the date of the thread... The Winter Queen's sister was revealed in the first week of the expansion with the Ardenweald storyline as well as spam clicking Winter Queen for extra voice lines.

Did I miss anything that cast doubt on that so it needed to be revealed again?

The only thing that was revealed back then was the fact she had a sister. She was never named.

[Rozz]

What heavy ties to night or celestial symbolism?And I'll remind you again that the dream/sleep aspects of Ysera's character are Eonar's influence, not Elune's. Ysera's bond and protective nature is for the Night Elves as Night Elves, who again, are tied to the dream not through Elune (who doesn't really have much of a connection to it) but through druidism via Cenarius. It's not because they worship Elune.

The entire zone and kingdom under the Winter Queen? And Ysera ended up caring for the offspring and worshipers of Elune, whether they're druids or not. That's a needless distinction when those groups still all fall within a system and society tied to the moon goddess.

These "three" things are all just one thing, what happened in Val'sharh, which was my entire point. The only thing Elune has ever really had to do with Ysera is showing up to put her down. So how is Ysera her pet and not Eonar's who "raised", "trained" and "housed" her?

They're three of the same heavy handed hint for what they revealed. Eonar was there for the start of Ysera's life, but Elune was there at the end. And throughout Ysera's life, she spent a majority of her duty intertwined with Elune's devotees and offspring. I'm sorry you're disappointed it's Elune, but the issue is that the writing wasn't as deep as people's theories.

Eh, that mostly means that up till now, it could have gone either way. There's no clear lead in either direction and enough hints to justify both

That's my point, it's why I'm surprised so many people were apparently surprised when there are only two characters they could be talking about. I don't blame people for being disappointed or upset, but it wasn't like it wasn't implied at all.

[Ealyssa]

uuuuugggghhhh, Elune was said to be the only true god that we knew of in the WoW universe, why are they retconning it!

There are no "god" in the warcraft universe. Godhood itself is just an abstract concept. What is a god ? What differentiate a god from a non god ? If an entity called a "god" really exist, it cease to be a god. If a god is just someone terribly powerful, then yes Elune is still one.

[Nagawithlegs]

Why do people think that Eonar and Elune couldn't possibly both be sisters?

Notice how WQ is positive towards Elune but is dismissive of Eonar.

[arboachg]

Ysera is much more Eonar's pet than Elune's. She (like the other aspects) was turned into a dragon in the first place by the titan pantheon, her power was specifically a blessing from Eonar, she was put to sleep and put in charge of the Emerald Dream by Eonar, who's the one who largely oversaw it's creation. I think people often forget, but Elune herself is not really much of a druid god, where druidism is the entire thing Ysera was built around--her son Cenarius is (and he's implied to get that druid connection from his father, Malorne who was involved with the dream and the powers of the wild)

Really Ysera's only involvement, at all, with Elune was Elune basically killing/cleansing her in Val'sharah, something that happens at a temple to Elune when her favorite priestess is there.

So combined with the fact that the Eternal Ones are continually described as being a similar thing to the titan pantheon and of a similar level and make, it made much more sense that Ysera's owner and WQ's sister was Eonar, who is basically a mirrored "life" reflection of the Winter Queen, does the other half of taking care of nature, and is the one who effectively made and employed Ysera, than Elune, who has always been depicted as something not really anything like a Titan or Eternal One, and has almost no connection to Ysera.

Exactly this.