How to Improve the Gear Rewards Systems of WoW!

[Jastall]

Some people here have a lack of vision.

The game itself could be different in conjunction with the plan. Remember all of the areas on the map you didn't visit while leveling? Those could have become elite areas where you would find the elite WQs that give gear upgrades. Imagine elite mobs that can 1-shot you similar to the good ole days on the Timeless Isle. That place was received well. The good gear upgrades wouldn't be from normal WQs that you can breeze through. Things could be more difficult.

Some areas of the Maw are designed like this and are fun. But the only people that go there are geared folks because casuals have no reason to be in the Maw in the first place. Huge missed opportunity by Blizz. It's places like those that represent the type of world content that people need a reason to participate. It just lacks rewards.

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Here is my personal issue with the Maw-Touched gear. I believe it caps out at 233. Well I'm already 220, so it would take ages before I got the gear to a place that I would see an upgrade since the process is gated. I don't mind long grinds or gated content. And I like the concept of the Maw-Touched gear. But that's a long wait to see what will be small (13 ilvls) results in the end. That does not excite me. That does not push me to re-sub.

After doing some math, that is approximately 11 weeks (almost 3 months) of grinding without a single gear upgrade. That sounds great...

It's not made for people with 220 gear (which means you're deep into Heroic raiding, M+14/15 keys, and/or rating 1800 PvP if memory serves). It's made for people who are at 205, max 210 now because they don't do those activities. You're not the target audience here, Johnny Casual who still has pieces of Covenant gear on his main is.

Right below Heroic raiding ilvl is about where I'd put the cap on world content gear, given that said world content requires no grouping and is intentionally very, very easy and accessible. Progression for players who seek less of a challenge must be a thing, but the hardest content must still reward the best gear for the system to make any sense at all. I feel the balance has been achieved.

[Clash the DK]

How about we don't destroy the entire games progression system to give a small group of people consumed by envy a momentary reprieve?

That is the most dramatic and idiotic statement I have read today, congratulations!

This is what many of them want, yes. But, to "balance it out" with a +15, they have to play catch with the dog for 3 minutes every day for a week, which makes it totally ok.

Wait, nevermind.

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It's not made for people with 220 gear (which means you're deep into Heroic raiding, M+14/15 keys, and/or rating 1800 PvP if memory serves). It's made for people who are at 205, max 210 now because they don't do those activities. You're not the target audience here, Johnny Casual who still has pieces of Covenant gear on his main is.

Right below Heroic raiding ilvl is about where I'd put the cap on world content gear, given that said world content requires no grouping and is intentionally very, very easy and accessible. Progression for players who seek less of a challenge must be a thing, but the hardest content must still reward the best gear for the system to make any sense at all. I feel the balance has been achieved.

I'm a casual player these days. I dipped my toes into Rated PvP this patch, which I didn't really like and don't plan on doing again. So now I've ruined my character progression for the next 6-12 months until the last patch drops? How is that a good business model?

I don't believe that most casual players seek less of a challenge. They mostly just don't want to play with other people and/or don't want to play on a strict schedule which most high end content requires. If there were difficult solo content that has good long term rewards, then I think that casuals would flock to it. But that has to be gated. The "hardest" content in the game should offer the same rewards but with the opportunity to receive them faster. I think that is what would keep everything intact and balanced.

[Crimson Spears]

That is the most dramatic and idiotic statement I have read today, congratulations!



Wait, nevermind.

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I'm a casual player these days. I dipped my toes into Rated PvP this patch, which I didn't really like and don't plan on doing again. So now I've ruined my character progression for the next 6-12 months until the last patch drops? How is that a good business model?

I don't believe that most casual players seek less of a challenge. They mostly just don't want to play with other people and/or don't want to play on a strict schedule which most high end content requires. If there were difficult solo content that has good long term rewards, then I think that casuals would flock to it. But that has to be gated. The "hardest" content in the game should offer the same rewards but with the opportunity to receive them faster. I think that is what would keep everything intact and balanced.

You have confused progressing through harder and harder content with improving your ilv.

A fear you are already lost.

[Clash the DK]

You have confused progressing through harder and harder content with improving your ilv.

A fear you are already lost.

You would need to expand upon that since it doesn't make much sense.

Character progression is gear progression. All content in the game gets easier by improving your ilvl.

[Jastall]

That is the most dramatic and idiotic statement I have read today, congratulations!



Wait, nevermind.

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I'm a casual player these days. I dipped my toes into Rated PvP this patch, which I didn't really like and don't plan on doing again. So now I've ruined my character progression for the next 6-12 months until the last patch drops? How is that a good business model?

I don't believe that most casual players seek less of a challenge. They mostly just don't want to play with other people and/or don't want to play on a strict schedule which most high end content requires. If there were difficult solo content that has good long term rewards, then I think that casuals would flock to it. But that has to be gated. The "hardest" content in the game should offer the same rewards but with the opportunity to receive them faster. I think that is what would keep everything intact and balanced.

If you're 220 you've done more than dip your toes in PvP- that ilvl requires a half decent rating and a good number of wins/farming to get from PvP alone. From raids it means you kill the final two bosses often which is out of reach of most players. For dungeons it means you at the very least do +12 keys and get the 220/223 stuff from the end chest. Regardless of which, purely WQ gear is not for you or you wouldn't be 220, it's as simple as that. I have Heroic on farm for more than a month and Keystone Master and I'm 223 myself, I'd definitely consider WQ gear of no interest to me at all, as it should be since I participate in two higher-end activities fairly often.

And most people playing this game don't look for a challenge. Tons still haven't cleared Torghast layer 8 and the Mage Tower didn't get the vaunted reputation it has today until patch 7.3 gear made it magnitudes easier; lots panned it when it released and was actually quite challenging for a number of specs in Nighthold gear. Blizzard doesn't make world content piss easy for no reason, it's supposed to be accessible by anyone, including complete newbies who have half their action bars empty and people playing while watching the TV at the same time or whatever.

Besides, there's plenty of challenging single-player games out there for those people. WoW is an MMO and its greatest challenges and rewards are meant to be met in multiplayer content, and that's how it should be.

[Clash the DK]

And most people playing this game don't look for a challenge. Tons still haven't cleared Torghast layer 8 and the Mage Tower didn't get the vaunted reputation it has today until patch 7.3 gear made it magnitudes easier; lots panned it when it released and was actually quite challenging for a number of specs in Nighthold gear. Blizzard doesn't make world content piss easy for no reason, it's supposed to be accessible by anyone, including complete newbies who have half their action bars empty and people playing while watching the TV at the same time or whatever.

Besides, there's plenty of challenging single-player games out there for those people. WoW is an MMO and its greatest challenges and rewards are meant to be met in multiplayer content, and that's how it should be.

People tend to gravitate to the path of least resistance. But that doesn't necessarily mean they don't want some sort of challenge. If the content is in their wheelhouse (solo vs group) AND it offers good rewards, I believe a lot of players will participate in the content.

Regarding the Mage Tower, see my first point. The MT didn't offer power upgrades; It was cosmetic rewards. And people knew that it would be easier to do it later, so they waited until they had better gear. Yes, some complained because it was hard when you didn't do group content at that time. The problem wasn't the tuning of the Mage Tower really, but the access of required gear for casual players. That was the deal with the Mage Tower.

And then there is the question of what is an MMO. Just because it is a massively multiplayer game doesn't necessarily mean you should have to group with people to progress your character in the endgame. The key is that you can. You have that choice. I mean, we don't have to group up to level. In some games that used to be a thing. But the genre evolved. And here we are with a chance to evolve further if the details can be nailed down.

[Nzx]

World Quests

Gear rewarded from World Quests would scale from 148 to 220. Renown gates this system, allowing the gearing process to be done incrementally over time. This gear would offer outdoor bonuses similar to what was used with Covenant Gear.


Covenant Gear

This would be the endgame for those who focus on just world content. Covenant Gear would scale to 226.

Hahahahaha. I'm assuming we're in the "post-irony" stage of armchair game design shitposting at this point. Same ilvl as mythic raid bosses for killing 10 squirrels and picking up five fox turds. Fantastic bait.

[Niwes]

It is my opinion that we should have a better gear progression system in place for casual world content. Many people want to gear up their character but do not like participating in mandatory group content. I like to compare this to so many people who live in the suburbs; They like or don't mind living around other people, but do not want to consistently interact with their neighbors. Some people enjoy that balance of community and solitude. After playing since the beginning and doing everything this game offers over the years, I now fall into this category. I prefer solo content unless temporary convenience dictates the matter.

And then we have the many people who thrive on group content and playing the game with others. Nothing wrong with that. But, all current endgame content centers around this group of people. And that is my big problem. It makes zero sense to design any MMO exclusively around one group of players and force the other group to conform.

Next, we have the problem of people feeling forced into doing things they don't want to do in order to min/max what they do want to do. For example, some feel the need to run M+ or PvP to get the best gear they can even if they only really want to raid and vice-versa. People should be allowed to focus on one single form of content if they so choose OR dabble in multiple aspects of the game if that makes them happy.

So in an attempt to address all of these issues with one over-arcing design, I believe that the answer is specialized bonus gear. For example, I will refer to current gear numbers to explain how this system would work.








WORLD CONTENT

The biggest goal here is to extend the gearing process and further increase player power through world content but without stepping on the toes of other endgame progression.



World Quests

Gear rewarded from World Quests would scale from 148 to 220. Renown gates this system, allowing the gearing process to be done incrementally over time. This gear would offer outdoor bonuses similar to what was used with Covenant Gear.



Covenant Gear

This would be the endgame for those who focus on just world content. Covenant Gear would scale to 226. I think this gear should have offered bonuses related to the Maw and Torghast. And maybe the upgrade currency should have been Stygia or something similar that can also be attained through normal Torghast. This puts people into the more difficult outdoor areas of the current patch with a good reward system in place.



World Bosses

Gear drops here would scale just like World Quests within a patch cycle. Maybe valuable trinkets and weapons would be acquired here. It just needs a little something extra to differentiate it as being weekly content.



Faction Reputation

This is probably fine. It should serve as a temporary boost along your journey.



Profession Crafting

On one hand, I believe that the gear from crafting should just be transmog gear. Make it interesting and maybe more practical looking gear opposed to all of the crazy looks we get from gear elsewhere. Example being the vendor weapons we gain access to from the new starting area. Otherwise, I would just designate this gear as starter PvP gear or catch-up gear.







RAIDS

Gear from raids would now have a bonus system that would give a max bonus of 30% at 15 pieces. All raid encounters would obviously be tuned according. You would want raid gear to raid. Those progressing through say Heroic would probably want to also run Normal if gear upgrades exist there. This is in opposition to the current gearing scheme where people feel forced to run M+ or PvP to fill in the gaps in their gear.

5 Set Bonus: Increases your Primary stat and Stamina by 5% while in a raid.

10 Set Bonus: Increases your Primary stat and Stamina by an additional 10% (15%) while in a raid.

15 Set Bonus: Increases your Primary stat and Stamina by an additional 15% (30%) while in a raid.







DUNGEONS

Gear from Dungeons would have the exact same bonus system as Raid gear, except this bonus only works in dungeons. Once again, people who want to just run dungeons won't feel the need to do other things to succeed or cut corners. Additionally, gear rewards could be slightly increased across the board since you wouldn't be gaining gear from multiple sources.

5 Set Bonus: Increases your Primary stat and Stamina by 5% while in dungeons.

10 Set Bonus: Increases your Primary stat and Stamina by an additional 10% (15%) while in dungeons.

15 Set Bonus: Increases your Primary stat and Stamina by an additional 15% (30%) while in dungeons.








PVP

Gear from PvP needs to be simplified and have any rating requirement removed. Rated play should be all about fame, glory, and transmog gear. We only need one PvP currency with a weekly cap just like Conquest now. You buy the PvP gear with that currency and upgrade the gear with that currency. This process should be gated similar to how Honor gear was this patch. PvP gear would eventually upgrade to 226. There would now be a long path of progression through PvP even for casual players.

Versatility would be changed to a PvP stat that only comes on PvP gear. All pieces of PvP gear would have Versatility, even all trinkets. Versatility would increase damage and healing by X% and decrease damage taken from other players by X%. PvP gear would have a set bonus tied to Versatility.

5 Set Bonus: Increases your Versatility by 5% while in Arena and Battlegrounds.

10 Set Bonus: Increases your Versatility by an additional 10% (15%) while in Arenas and Battlegrounds.

15 Set Bonus: Increases your Versatility by an additional 15% (30%) while in Arenas and Battlegrounds.








GREAT VAULT

PvP rewards would work similar to the Raid and Dungeon rewards.

Reward 1 - Win 1 Battlegrounds or 3 Arena matches.

Reward 2 - Win 5 Battlegrounds or 10 Arena matches.

Reward 3 - Win 10 Battlegrounds or 20 Arena matches.







Using this example, I believe that a compromise can be had regarding how gear rewards work. Everyone would feel adequately rewarded for doing the content of their choosing. I really do believe everyone could be happy with this system but I would like to hear your feedback.

Additionally, I think it would be appropriate to rethink the color schemes of gear in accordance with this plan:

many of your ideas work against the usefulness of boost grps. and therefore blizz will never do this. if you not realized it already, i explain it to you:

Blizz has a so called smart cash grab system. The WoW Token. It profits them 7-9 additional bugs, by doing nothing, for every token ever passing the AH. its a fully automatic system and Blizz just watches the billions flow. this means: before someone can buy a token with gold, to not pay his sub by money and instead use the token (-13 bugs for blizz), another one first had to put a token into the AH. this one had to buy a token for 20 bugs before (+20 bugs for blizz). so blizz made 7 additional bugs. thats a smart cash grab system.

that said, well, now Blizz wanna of course see as much as possible tokens used (everytime +7 bugs), so they ofc use a game design that supports this. this means you need a game design, where boosting makes a lot of sense. because booster grps are paid with gold. and where ppl quickly get gold ? right, by buying tokens. so you do a game design that supports boosting a lot, i.e. by „you need 1400 rating before you can upgrade your pvp gear“ or „you need KSM before you can further upgrade your valor gear“. this will produce a lot of boost grps and this will lead to a lot of sold tokens. thats why it called „smart“ cash grab system.

you can see this ingame, when you look in PUG tool, HOW many WTS entries SL produced. thats the direct result of it and the clear signal to proof what i talk about here. some very naive persons will call it tinfoil hat here, but thats ok.

now, look at your ideas: you need just 5 BGs to win, for better gear (15%) in pvp. this means you can farm this. the need of boosters is not that high. so the typical midclass casual wow player not quickly buy a token and pay a boost grp. no +7 bugs for Blizz. as long as this is ATVI Blizz and Bobby Kotick wanna see his money making machine rolling, as long your ideas never will be used.

sad but true.

[Jastall]

People tend to gravitate to the path of least resistance. But that doesn't necessarily mean they don't want some sort of challenge. If the content is in their wheelhouse (solo vs group) AND it offers good rewards, I believe a lot of players will participate in the content.

Regarding the Mage Tower, see my first point. The MT didn't offer power upgrades; It was cosmetic rewards. And people knew that it would be easier to do it later, so they waited until they had better gear. Yes, some complained because it was hard when you didn't do group content at that time. The problem wasn't the tuning of the Mage Tower really, but the access of required gear for casual players. That was the deal with the Mage Tower.

And then there is the question of what is an MMO. Just because it is a massively multiplayer game doesn't necessarily mean you should have to group with people to progress your character in the endgame. The key is that you can. You have that choice. I mean, we don't have to group up to level. In some games that used to be a thing. But the genre evolved. And here we are with a chance to evolve further if the details can be nailed down.

Cosmetics are precious to tons of people. There's a reason rare mounts and mogs go for so much/are religiously farmed by so many.

It's not an evolution to completely invalidate the game's challenge. People who are 205-210 now will have more than enough endgame progressing towards 233, they're the same target demographic. If they want the best gear, they gotta do the hardest challenges.

[arkanon]

That's a mighty fine strawman you've built for yourself there. It'd be a shame if someone ... oh, you knocked it down already.

You realise multiple people are asking for this, right? Like, every week people are creating threads asking for loot as high as mythic raid loot from solo content, non challenging solo content, replacing difficulty with repetition and time.

[Crimson Spears]

You realise multiple people are asking for this, right? Like, every week people are creating threads asking for loot as high as mythic raid loot from solo content, non challenging solo content, replacing difficulty with repetition and time.

Many ask why the high end players seem to utterly despise the rest. When I look out at what has happened when those players are catered to I ask how could anyone wonder why?

[arkanon]

Many ask why the high end players seem to utterly despise the rest. When I look out at what has happened when those players are catered to I ask how could anyone wonder why?

My response is always the same - "where? when? who?" I have not seen a single "hardcore" player saying "we dont want casual players to have progression" or "we dont want casual players to get any loot" or anything even remotely similar. What i DO see people on BOTH ends of the spectrum, and everything in between saying quite frequently is "we want the quality of the loot to reflect the difficulty of the content it was obtained from".

Not only do I want causal players to have meaningful progression, I have put forward multiple suggestions myself of systems that might help - anything other than the best loot in the game, obtained by endlessly farming brain dead content, is rejected outright by all but a couple of players.

I will say there absolutely is a section of the community that cannot stand the idea of SOLO play rewarding high quality loot in what they consider a multiplayer game - and i certainly understand where they are coming from, but i also really enjoyed things like the Mage Tower, so i dont really have a strong opinion either way on that.

[craigw]

gear is everywhere in SL. quit being pussies and do content to get it.

[Crimson Spears]

My response is always the same - "where? when? who?" I have not seen a single "hardcore" player saying "we dont want casual players to have progression" or "we dont want casual players to get any loot" or anything even remotely similar. What i DO see people on BOTH ends of the spectrum, and everything in between saying quite frequently is "we want the quality of the loot to reflect the difficulty of the content it was obtained from".

Not only do I want causal players to have meaningful progression, I have put forward multiple suggestions myself of systems that might help - anything other than the best loot in the game, obtained by endlessly farming brain dead content, is rejected outright by all but a couple of players.

I will say there absolutely is a section of the community that cannot stand the idea of SOLO play rewarding high quality loot in what they consider a multiplayer game - and i certainly understand where they are coming from, but i also really enjoyed things like the Mage Tower, so i dont really have a strong opinion either way on that.

You can see in this thread how much they chaff at the idea of loot reflecting difficulty they despise it so they come up with these bizarre grind systems again and again and again...

[Nzx]

sad but true.

Get a fucking grip with this conspiracy theorist bullshit. By your (and I'm being desperately generous with the use of this word) "logic", any requirement to achieve anything in the game before being rewarded with the absolute maximum reward possible encourages boosting and therefore is a "cash grab" by Blizzard because of the existence of the token. Blizzard doesn't encourage boosting by setting requirements on gear - lazy, useless morons who want rewards without any skill or effort invested on their own behalf encourage boosting. It's not even casuals that buy boosts because casuals literally do not care about reaching peak ilvl. It's entitled people wanting everything handed to them on a platter for the mere act of logging in that buy boosts, and then invent all the excuses under the sun about how they have jobs or whatever and that makes it literally impossible to actually play the game and that's why they need to buy boosts.

Your indignation is misplaced. Blizzard sell a product. It's the playerbase rot engendered by forums like this where laziness and mediocrity are celebrated that creates the market we currently see.

[hulkgor]

Yea, no thanks.

Let's not ruin what works well.

Also, might aswell add that this suggestion is asinine. People want gear to work across features, and not have specific gear for raids, dungeons, outdoors and whatever the fuck you're thinking.

And it's also blatantly absurd that world quests, no-difficulty whatsoever content, to even get near the same ilvl as dungeons, pvp or raid gear. That simply being suggested makes the whole thing come across as a shit show.

[Palapop]

This suggestion is beyond bad.

How to improve system? - revert it back to 5.4 patch and it's best system EVER! It even has VP upgrades for no lifers!


Also, I saw someone saying "bring back Legion pvp". HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA xD

[Clash the DK]

If they want the best gear, they gotta do the hardest challenges.

Why? Why do you need the best gear to do the hardest challenges? Wouldn't it be a better challenge and more prestigious without gear?
See where I'm going with this?

[arkanon]

Why? Why do you need the best gear to do the hardest challenges? Wouldn't it be a better challenge and more prestigious without gear?
See where I'm going with this?

No one said anything about REQUIRING the best gear to complete the hardest content - they said the hardest content should REWARD the best loot. But im glad that you have finally come around and admitted that casuals dont actually need higher ilvl loot - see where this is going?

[Clash the DK]

No one said anything about REQUIRING the best gear to complete the hardest content - they said the hardest content should REWARD the best loot. But im glad that you have finally come around and admitted that casuals dont actually need higher ilvl loot - see where this is going?

You have it backwards. Why should the hardest content even reward gear? It's about the challenge, right?