Israel and Palestine Conflict Heats Up

[tehdang]

That would be hypocritical because if I was in a similar position then I would demand that the US government obliterates the militant group that is shooting rockets at my family. In that situation my opponent would have to be hit again and again and again until they are completely demoralized and all of their hope of gaining anything through violence is utterly extinguished.

I hate religion though so certainly I disagree with the government pandering to orthodox groups and not doing more to stop Zionist extremists from expanding settlements in the West Bank. Atheism is needed more than ever, imo.

I don't think you're likely to succeed in neither Israel nor Gaza, though I think Hamas supporters win the prize of least-likely-to-become-Atheist. Shooting rockets into that behemoth takes quite a bit more faith, as does bearing the consequences.

[Fandis]

You're from Israel? For real? And you use Nazi Germany to legitimise Israel's action? How is your head not exploding from the irony? You can't look at UK vs. Germany in isolation, the UK didn't bomb Dresden or Hamburg to survive. Their goal was to end the war, liberate the dozen or so countries that Germany occupied and put an end to a war that, as was later found out, cost the European continent (especially Russia and Eastern European nations) millions and millions of people's lives. If you have to ask who the bad guy was, you clearly are living in the wrong fucking country.

Unless you're suggesting Hamas is hiding some gas chambers somewhere. Holy crap, this is one of the worst own goals I've seen on this forum. You should be ashamed of yourself. Greetings from, ironically, Germany.

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I'd be surprised if he solved the problem of how to wipe his own ass already...

You have completely missed the point of my post (alternatively I might have worded it wrong, English is only my 3rd language, plus I've been perma sleepy the last few days with missile alarms going of every hour or 2). My intention was to point Endus' ridiculous (in my opinion) logic of the body count being the deciding factor in who's the good and who's the bad guy, and I've shown a historical example where his logic would lead to a very wrong conclusion.

[PACOX]

Any suggestions for what Palestinians can do?

What about them? Theres only so much I could honestly expect a Palestinian do while being ostracized by a regime like Israel's current and its past for the last few decades. I can saw the right thing to wouldn't retaliate with violence but had your home demolished as a kid, loved ones killed, being harassed by the IDF, you're going to have some a chip on your shoulder. You're going to want someone to feel the pain you experienced. Its like in the US where you cut a neighborhood's afterschool programs, financial opportunities move away, then wonder why people turn to gangs and drugs. When problems are systemic I'm biased against the one that holds all the power.

Hamas is full of shit 90% of the time. I can understand why a Palestinian would join Hamas after being on the receiving end of IDF.

[Endus]

You bolded the wrong part. I went ahead and put the emphasis where it should have been.
Edit: I'm not trying to change your post intentions, just to be clear. In fact, I'm going to remove my bolding and italicize it instead.

There is no intent to destroy the group.

That's just horse shit.

There is no possible explanation for mandatory contraceptions like that but genocidal intent.

I'm not arguing that Israel is on the side of angels here, but claiming that the Israelites are attempting genocide is one of the most historically out of touch statements I've ever seen.

It's hardly just me saying this out of nowhere.

http://peacewomen.org/content/blog-d...thiopian-women

And it's not that functionally different from what China's doing to its Uighur population, which is also being called a genocide.

You're going to argue that the temporary use of contraception on an unwilling group meets the (d) definition, but it does not. Because Israel is doing it to people immigrating to their country, right? So they are, one could argue, imposing a requirement of entry. Is that genocide? Not at all. Unless you're about to try and argue that Israel was committing genocide on Jewish people.

Mandatory contraception, and the particular contraceptive was a long-acting one.

And the women in question were Ethiopian, ethnically speaking. They (and the men in their group as well) were also subjected to a hell of a lot of prejudice and racism in other respects, in Israel.

Seriously, this is like being aghast that Nazi Germany was genociding German Jews. When they were. Obviously. All that this shit takes is any distinction used to "other" an identifiable group.

Moreover, this contraception is temporary - meaning no intention of preventing births on a permanent basis. If the contraception was permanent, then you'd have some room to maneuver. But it's not, so you don't.

It was long-acting. Not pills you need to take daily. And the injections only stopped being mandatory when the practice became public and the international community raised a big "WTF" about it.

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My intention was to point Endus' ridiculous (in my opinion) logic of the body count being the deciding factor in who's the good and who's the bad guy, and I've shown a historical example where his logic would lead to a very wrong conclusion.

If you think that there has to even be a "good guy" for any given "bad guy", you're already making errors in reasoning.

I came into this pretty blatantly stating that both of them were acting terribly. They're both "bad guys". But if you want to ask which one's worse, then that's where we can look at the numbers, and their actions, and Israel pretty clearly comes off as the "worse guy".

Your "logic" also doesn't hold up to scrutiny, at all, because Nazi Germany was responsible for far more civilian deaths than the Allies were. Well, the Western Allies. If we bring Russia into this it's gonna get complicated, but it'll also dilute the point you're trying to make, since basically no one today is gonna argue Stalin was a "good guy" either.

In fact, there's a perfect example of why you "logic" is nonsense. Stalin and Hitler were at war. They each slaughtered a lot of each other's people. Who's the "good guy", in that fight? Do you think Stalin was the good guy? Or was Hitler the good guy? In your estimation, one of the two has to be a good guy, right? They can't both be bad guys. Because if you admit that, you've undercut your entire argument regarding Israel and Hamas. And you're gonna have to admit my "both of them are bad" is a perfectly legitimate stance.

[cubby]

A drop in birth rates by 20% among the group after forced measured to reduce their population

"We only wanted to do a little genocide for a time to have lasting population decreases among those dirty jews with too much african admixture." Doesn't bode well.. It is genocide... it was genocide on black jews by jews with significant white European admixture..

This is why I said earlier Israel isn't just a Jewish apartheid state it is a white Jewish apartheid state.

Not genocide. Literally not. Everything else you're claiming stems off your misnomer.

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Please keep in mind my initial point here - the post claiming genocide and sterilization was lying. I'm not arguing that Israel was right in what they were doing. I'm saying that it wasn't genocide, that Israel wasn't "sterilizing" them. Both of those things are facts - Israel wasn't doing either. That is my only point here.

That's just horse shit.

There is no possible explanation for mandatory contraceptions like that but genocidal intent.

You're objectively wrong. The contraception was literally short term. I'm not using those two words lightly here, with you.
And, there are in fact MANY reasons why mandatory contraception fall outside genocidal intent.

It's hardly just me saying this out of nowhere.
http://peacewomen.org/content/blog-d...thiopian-women
And it's not that functionally different from what China's doing to its Uighur population, which is also being called a genocide.

Give us a quote from there saying what Israel did. Literally the title of the article questions whether it's genocide, directly going against your claim. I'm not saying that the title of an article defines it's conclusion nor it's content, but the very fact that it's being worded that way shows there is questions about their actions here.
What is China doing to it's Uighur population?

Mandatory contraception, and the particular contraceptive was a long-acting one.

How long? Show me the information. If it wasn't permanent, then it's the same as many other forms.

And the women in question were Ethiopian, ethnically speaking. They (and the men in their group as well) were also subjected to a hell of a lot of prejudice and racism in other respects, in Israel.

I'm not discussing that aspect of it.

It was long-acting. Not pills you need to take daily. And the injections only stopped being mandatory when the practice became public and the international community raised a big "WTF" about it.

Same question - how long. Of course they stopped when they were found out, it was wrong. But it wasn't genocide, literally based on the U.N. definition, that you provided.

Please keep in mind my initial point here - the post claiming genocide and sterilization was lying. I'm not arguing that Israel was right in what they were doing. I'm saying that it wasn't genocide, that Israel wasn't "sterilizing" them. Both of those things are facts - Israel wasn't doing either. That is my only point here.

Wrong? Yes.
Genocide? No.
Sterilization? No.

[DingDongKing]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...-b1849101.html

So much for that

Biden is a coward in this matter. Tragedy is no opposition party member will even be better than him on this.

It's beholden to the Democrats internally to battle him on this.

[Slant]

You have completely missed the point of my post (alternatively I might have worded it wrong, English is only my 3rd language, plus I've been perma sleepy the last few days with missile alarms going of every hour or 2). My intention was to point Endus' ridiculous (in my opinion) logic of the body count being the deciding factor in who's the good and who's the bad guy, and I've shown a historical example where his logic would lead to a very wrong conclusion.

Yeah, don't use Nazi Germany. There's no way you can make it work. Body count doesn't matter, I agree. But Just don't even try to use Nazi Germany. It'll always blow up in your face, no matter what.

And I don't think anyone here's using body count to say who's good or bad. Maybe nobody is good in that fight, eh? Maybe y'all need to calm the fuck down and stop getting on everyone's nerves with your drama queen act, hmm? I mean, Netanyahu and HAMAS anyway, I'm sure the average Israeli is just as tired of this shit as the average Palestinian is. How about y'all get together and kick your leaderships out, put some sensible, non theocratic people in charge that can solve the situation, eh?

[Mihalik]

So contraception is genocide? From your own article:

What else are you lying about?

Forced contraception is a form of genocide. But the victims of genocide are the Palestinian.

The sterilization of the Ethiopian Jews is just an example of institutional/cultural racism prevalent in Israeli society.

[DingDongKing]

It's no secret that the Israeli Government believes in an ethno-state. That isn't an anti-semitic notion, because I don't believe I'm better than anyone. It's a political issue. There is a massive far-right electorate in Israel, and it drives such ridiculous policy. And it's upsetting.

[Slant]

It's no secret that the Israeli Government believes in an ethno-state. That isn't an anti-semitic notion, because I don't believe I'm better than anyone. It's a political issue. There is a massive far-right electorate in Israel, and it drives such ridiculous policy. And it's upsetting.

That right-right electorate is fueled by Iran's constant insistance of obliterating Israel, let's be fair.

What's pretty telling for me in all of this is... Israel could just give the Gaza strip to Egypt. Want to know why that ain't happening? Cos Egypt doesn't want Hamas, either. Nobody wants Gaza, really. They should just be declared their only little country and then Israel can pull up proper borders and ignore them.

[Felya]

"Trying" where's the proof of that? Indiscriminate bombing isn't "targeting" children.

Proof of colorful balloons, with ‘I love you’ on them, being something children would pick up? I guess you are right... they didn’t care if it was children... they just wanted to kill as many Israeli civilians as they could.

I guess that’s our disagreement point... you don’t consider indiscriminate bombing, a terrorist act.

Meanwhile... IDF snipers...

Israel are terrorist... I wouldn’t defend it, even if it came from indiscriminate bombing.

[Nazerdam]

Israel doesn’t want a two state solution.

They only want the 3.5 reich

[JohnBrown1917]

That right-right electorate is fueled by Iran's constant insistance of obliterating Israel, let's be fair.

What's pretty telling for me in all of this is... Israel could just give the Gaza strip to Egypt. Want to know why that ain't happening? Cos Egypt doesn't want Hamas, either. Nobody wants Gaza, really. They should just be declared their only little country and then Israel can pull up proper borders and ignore them.

And if they still deny them acess to the sea it will still be an open-air concentration camp and neither does it solve the settler issue on the west bank.

Almost like it was a mistake for Isreal to help hamas into power.

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I don't see how this conflict can be resolved in any way shape or form. People's family continue to be killed and that just breeds generational hatred. Rinse/repeat.

(and no - the answer is not "[this side] needs to stop their oppressive behavior and halt all attacks" - you're WAY out of touch with reality if that's your answer to the above)

One side has all the power, the other side has close to none. Its like saying Vietnam and the US where both equal at fault for the vietnam war.

[Themius]

Proof of colorful balloons, with ‘I love you’ on them, being something children would pick up? I guess you are right... they didn’t care if it was children... they just wanted to kill as many Israeli civilians as they could.

I guess that’s our disagreement point... you don’t consider indiscriminate bombing, a terrorist act.



Israel are terrorist... I wouldn’t defend it, even if it came from indiscriminate bombing.

I don't know many locked off areas of the world where they have choices of what to get.

Hence why you can find places saying death to America while wearing shirts that have American symbols on them. And colourful? Did we look at the same picture?

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Not genocide. Literally not. Everything else you're claiming stems off your misnomer.

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Please keep in mind my initial point here - the post claiming genocide and sterilization was lying. I'm not arguing that Israel was right in what they were doing. I'm saying that it wasn't genocide, that Israel wasn't "sterilizing" them. Both of those things are facts - Israel wasn't doing either. That is my only point here.


You're objectively wrong. The contraception was literally short term. I'm not using those two words lightly here, with you.
And, there are in fact MANY reasons why mandatory contraception fall outside genocidal intent.


Give us a quote from there saying what Israel did. Literally the title of the article questions whether it's genocide, directly going against your claim. I'm not saying that the title of an article defines it's conclusion nor it's content, but the very fact that it's being worded that way shows there is questions about their actions here.
What is China doing to it's Uighur population?


How long? Show me the information. If it wasn't permanent, then it's the same as many other forms.


I'm not discussing that aspect of it.


Same question - how long. Of course they stopped when they were found out, it was wrong. But it wasn't genocide, literally based on the U.N. definition, that you provided.

Please keep in mind my initial point here - the post claiming genocide and sterilization was lying. I'm not arguing that Israel was right in what they were doing. I'm saying that it wasn't genocide, that Israel wasn't "sterilizing" them. Both of those things are facts - Israel wasn't doing either. That is my only point here.

Wrong? Yes.
Genocide? No.
Sterilization? No.

It is genocide...IUDs were used to cut birth rates of the Uyghur which is also genocide they decreased the birth-rates of Ethiopian jews by near a quarter.

Genocide doesn't necessitate absolute extermination. It just requires reducing a large percentage of the population and a 20% reduction does exactly that. It wasn't short term... it was long term...

You're purposefully minimising this for what reason I don't know.

genocide affects in whole or in part a large portion of a population and reduces numbers... they did exactly that with the ethiopians

Over a decade of time the birth rates have dropped 20% and is below that of all other jewish women.

[Felya]

Israel doesn’t want a two state solution.

Neither does hamas... Fatah were interested, Israel withdrew from Gaza and gave up the border to Egypt... but, since hamas brutally took over, murdering Palestinian civilians and public executions of Fatah members and their families... it hasn’t been something seriously pushed by hamas. Fatah are still part of the unity government, but you don’t hear much about them, in the ongoing conflict.

Edit: Just to be clear... polling is consistent that Israelis are interested in a two state solution, but the government has shown no interest since hamas took over.

[Themius]

Neither does hamas... Fatah were interested, Israel withdrew from Gaza and gave up the border to Egypt... but, since hamas brutally took over, murdering Palestinian civilians and public executions of Fatah members and their families... it hasn’t been something seriously pushed by hamas. Fatah are still part of the unity government, but you don’t hear much about them, in the ongoing conflict.

Edit: Just to be clear... polling is consistent that Israelis are interested in a two state solution, but the government has shown no interest since hamas took over.

Are you blaming Hamas for there not being a two-state solution?

[Felya]

I don't know many locked off areas of the world where they have choices of what to get.

Are you saying they don’t have a choice, but to indiscriminately bomb civilians?

Hence why you can find places saying death to America while wearing shirts that have American symbols on them.

This is your reply to defend bombing civilians? Weak...

And colourful? Did we look at the same picture?

This is a nonsense argument... I did say they also have “I love you” written on them... sorry... “I [a picture of a heart] love you”... sorry about that... asinine point... noice...



Israel are terrorist...

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Are you blaming Hamas for there not being a two-state solution?

No, I literally said Israeli government has no interests. It takes two to tango and at this point, no one likes the song.

[Themius]

Are you saying they don’t have a choice, but to indiscriminately bomb civilians?



This is your reply to defend bombing civilians? Weak...



This is a nonsense argument... I did say they also have “I love you” written on them... sorry... “I [a picture of a heart] love you”... sorry about that... asinine point... noice...

[IMG]https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2020/02/000_1OV8ZA-1.jpg[IMG]

Israel are terrorist...

Felya did you forget what the fuck you said? You said they are using balloons to bomb children I say "do they even have choices in balloon colours given the locked nature" to which you say "are you saying they don't have a choice but to indiscriminately bomb civilians" Did you lose the thread?

One thing I seriously hate about your posting is the fact that you will just outwardly lie and make shit up. It is dishonest bullshit.

The fucking post were about choices in the balloons and how that doesn't necessarily mean anything given you know... open air prison system they have. And you use those arguments about the colours to say AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ARGUMENT is being justified? You don't even know what the fuck we are talking about do you?

Did you even read the source of that image? Hint: it makes no mention of these attacks being used to target children along the Israeli side of the border.

So I understand why you would move your goalpost and then pretend that the argument I made for A is in fact the new goalpost B you decided to move shit to... that's not how it works honey.

[Felya]

Felya did you forget what the fuck you said? You said they are using balloons to bomb children I say "do they even have choices in balloon colours given the locked nature" to which you say "are you saying they don't have a choice but to indiscriminately bomb civilians" Did you lose the thread?

This is asinine... I am not interested in an argument, where you think arguing the color of balloons, to prove hamas wanted to kill random people, not just children... is a legitimate argument.

One thing I seriously hate about your posting is the fact that you will just outwardly lie and make shit up. It is dishonest bullshit.

I’m not interested in making this personal.

The fucking post were about choices in the balloons and how that doesn't necessarily mean anything given you know... open air prison system they have. And you use those arguments about the colours to say AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ARGUMENT is being justified? You don't even know what the fuck we are talking about do you?

No, my reason for posting balloons, was in response to you asking... how are they terrorist... I’m the one who posted them and me telling you it’s asinine to discuss the color of balloons, as if indiscriminate bombing is a legitimate defense... is... as I said... asinine...

My intent wasn’t to discuss the color of balloons or make this personal.

Edit:

This is what I said when posting the picture, to get you to talk about the color of balloons, meaning they didn’t care which civilians they killed.

Does Israel send balloons across the border, with bombs attached to them?

[Cringefest]

The IDF let's people play out their fascists fantasies via proxy. A lot of people don't recognize what fascism looks like when it's not backed against a wall or in a swastika. Fascism looks strong, patriotic, in control, even heroic to some when it gets its way. "It maintains order, runs efficiently, and keeps the bad guys in check". But you have to step back and look at its methods, it's motives, who is being suppressed how and why. What's being shown in the open and what's being kept in the shadows.

Some people know Israel is playing out their fantasies while others have been duped by the facade

That is so accurate.