"Sorry we are closed nobody wants to work here anymore due to government handouts"

[Yadryonych]

The staggering amount of people here arguing against their own interests is proof we'll never get anywhere in society.

The staggering amount of people preposterously arguing that they are entitled to share of someone else's work on the premise of earning their bread on their own being a "suffering" for them is a proof we might be "there" sooner than you think, may you enjoy living in the freeloaders' paradise once you get there

[ghotihook]

Americans don't even really pay much less taxes.

https://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=TABLE_I6

Looking at single person with no kids, here's countries where the average personal income tax rate is lower than the USA's (in no particular order);

Canada
Australia
New Zealand
The UK
Japan
Korea

And Sweden and Ireland are so close it's basically irrelevant.

The idea that personal taxes in the USA are lower than any other developed country is just . . . wrong.
Nor are they higher, as the same list shows. US tax rates are just; pretty typical. Nothing to write home about.

I would much rather see the tax based on income. What does a person that makes 30K, 60K, 100K actually get taxed. What percent of taxes does the 1% pay. What do businesses pay?

Average doesn't mean as much as me cause the taxes paid can be skewed to one degree or the other.

[Krakan]

No, send those kids to the coal mine and factory lines. Teach them the virtues of hard work and personal sacrifice at a young age! You can't improve without personal suffering, it's apparently required!

At the age of 16 I tried rather desperately to get into construction and would of been ecstatic to work at a mine and depending on pay glad to be in a factory.

Is there a reason why someone who is young,strong, and bright shun such work? Most pay very respectable wages.

[Endus]

I would much rather see the tax based on income. What does a person that makes 30K, 60K, 100K actually get taxed. What percent of taxes does the 1% pay. What do businesses pay?

Average doesn't mean as much as me cause the taxes paid can be skewed to one degree or the other.

I mean, the data's out there. Why are you asking me to do your research for you? I chose a particular example that cut to personal tax rates rather than corporate, because the latter usually get factored into people's evaluation of their personal tax burdens, which isn't accurate.

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At the age of 16 I tried rather desperately to get into construction and would of been ecstatic to work at a mine and depending on pay glad to be in a factory.

Is there a reason why someone who is young,strong, and bright shun such work? Most pay very respectable wages.

Massive health and safety risks in the industry overall seem like a pretty obvious one.

The better question is to ask why anyone would want to do that kind of work? Particularly if you have other options?

[Edge-]

At the age of 16 I tried rather desperately to get into construction and would of been ecstatic to work at a mine and depending on pay glad to be in a factory.

Is there a reason why someone who is young,strong, and bright shun such work? Most pay very respectable wages.

Because you're still a child and there are significant workplace safety concerns as a result? There's a reason child labor laws exist, weird that you would be ecstatic at the concept of early onset of Black Lung.

[XDurionX]

The staggering amount of people preposterously arguing that they are entitled to share of someone else's work on the premise of earning their bread on their own being a "suffering" for them is a proof we might be "there" sooner than you think, may you enjoy living in the freeloaders' paradise once you get there

I already live in a "freeloaders paradise" with vast security nets (that still should be improved though) and earn more than median income, thank you.

[Krakan]

I mean, the data's out there. Why are you asking me to do your research for you? I chose a particular example that cut to personal tax rates rather than corporate, because the latter usually get factored into people's evaluation of their personal tax burdens, which isn't accurate.

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Massive health and safety risks in the industry overall seem like a pretty obvious one.

The better question is to ask why anyone would want to do that kind of work? Particularly if you have other options?

Paid well and to this day I find physical labor more enjoyable to do. I'm redicoulsy specialized and paid now but I still focused on building things just on a far grander scale now.

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Because you're still a child and there are significant workplace safety concerns as a result? There's a reason child labor laws exist, weird that you would be ecstatic at the concept of early onset of Black Lung.

Modern mining isn't the same as what I believe your picturing. Sure there are still risks but there is with anything.

[Zan15]

The staggering amount of people here arguing against their own interests is proof we'll never get anywhere in society.

but their own interest is to "pwn the libs".....!!!! Even if that means cutting off unemployment that FULLY FUNDED BY THE FEDS....

i mean why have free revenue coming into the state, it wouldn't help with tax collection and paying for services. naaaaaaaah

[Edge-]

Modern mining isn't the same as what I believe your picturing. Sure there are still risks but there is with anything.

And when you're an adult, you can go work in the mines to your hearts content. Companies aren't going to want to deal with the legal liability and insurance hell that employing children in a mine or construction site would bring.

Seriously though, it's hard to read your posts as anything other than a caricature.

[Zan15]

The thing that we need to go after next is.....


BOOMERS who get MORE $$ out of Social Security and Medicare then they were making while they were working....and more benefits/pay out of those systems then they paid into it!!!!


/s of course, but can you imagine we applied the same logic they are applying to unemployment?

[Endus]

Paid well and to this day I find physical labor more enjoyable to do. I'm redicoulsy specialized and paid now but I still focused on building things just on a far grander scale now.

The simple reality is that if people aren't flocking to the mines to fill available positions, the problem is that mine owners aren't paying enough.

The response to that problem should be "well, pay more", not "remove support systems to force people to make choices that aren't in their own best interests".

[Krakan]

And when you're an adult, you can go work in the mines to your hearts content. Companies aren't going to want to deal with the legal liability and insurance hell that employing children in a mine or construction site would bring.

Seriously though, it's hard to read your posts as anything other than a caricature.

I suppose it would be your mindset is as alien to mine it goes both ways.

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The simple reality is that if people aren't flocking to the mines to fill available positions, the problem is that mine owners aren't paying enough.

The response to that problem should be "well, pay more", not "remove support systems to force people to make choices that aren't in their own best interests".

Could easily be both. I won't defend underpaying employees and I believe everyone should negotiate for every last cent they can get. That said I cant see something like ubi ever being sustainable and simply raising the wage as pushing inflation.

[Edge-]

I suppose it would be your mindset is as alien to mine it goes both ways.

Mindset? Most of it is practical reality - companies don't want the liability/insurance risk of employing children in more dangerous professions. Not to mention the folks working there probably don't want to have to babysit a child around heavy equipment and power tools, they already have enough to deal with.

Also also, we've gone through this before and this is, again, exactly why child labor laws exist. Because 12 year olds working at the canning factory and losing fingers in cans of beans ain't exactly a great thing for the company, the poor sucker who buys the can of beans with a finger in it, or the child who is now missing a finger for the rest of their lives.

[Muzjhath]

Could easily be both. I won't defend underpaying employees and I believe everyone should negotiate for every last cent they can get. That said I cant see something like ubi ever being sustainable and simply raising the wage as pushing inflation.

People should group together and collectively bargine for everything they can get. They'll get paid better and get more benefits that way.

[Krakan]

Mindset? Most of it is practical reality - companies don't want the liability/insurance risk of employing children in more dangerous professions. Not to mention the folks working there probably don't want to have to babysit a child around heavy equipment and power tools, they already have enough to deal with.

Also also, we've gone through this before and this is, again, exactly why child labor laws exist. Because 12 year olds working at the canning factory and losing fingers in cans of beans ain't exactly a great thing for the company, the poor sucker who buys the can of beans with a finger in it, or the child who is now missing a finger for the rest of their lives.

We agree there I was talking more the 15-17 year old age.

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People should group together and collectively bargine for everything they can get. They'll get paid better and get more benefits that way.

Agreed at least were its practical. If someone can be trained to do your job in a hour I don't think you can effectively bargin.

[Edge-]

We agree there I was talking more the 15-17 year old age.

Still a child, especially legally. Again, companies working hazardous jobs don't want that kind of liability and insurance risk.

Agreed at least were its practical. If someone can be trained to do your job in a hour I don't think you can effectively bargin.

Why not? Are these people not "worthy" of bargaining for a living wage in your opinion? Are they not suffering enough for their pay?

[Captain N]

People should group together and collectively bargine for everything they can get. They'll get paid better and get more benefits that way.

When people do that the very same folks screeching about increasing wages start complaining about unions. It's not about wanting people to be better. It's almost always about making sure a group is being oppressed.

[Endus]

Could easily be both. I won't defend underpaying employees and I believe everyone should negotiate for every last cent they can get.

And yet, you argued for systems of duress to be present to push exactly that outcome.

That said I cant see something like ubi ever being sustainable and simply raising the wage as pushing inflation.

Which, as I already explained, is absolute nonsense that willfully misunderstands what actually drives inflation.

You may as well be worrying about how higher wages will encourage more goblins to disguise themselves as people and take Earth-jobs.

[Krakan]

Still a child, especially legally. Again, companies working hazardous jobs don't want that kind of liability and insurance risk.



Why not? Are these people not "worthy" of bargaining for a living wage in your opinion? Are they not suffering enough for their pay?

Practicality. If your that replaceable it's just easier to replace you then bargin with you. It's to sides to the same coin. The worker sells his labor at the highest price the employer wants to buy it at its lowest.

If someones selling what your selling for less they are going to go for the cheaper option.

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When people do that the very same folks screeching about increasing wages start complaining about unions. It's not about wanting people to be better. It's almost always about making sure a group is being oppressed.

Some will some won't personally I support unions.

[Edge-]

Practicality. If your that replaceable it's just easier to replace you then bargin with you.

That's literally one of the central points of collective bargaining dude.

The worker sells his labor at the highest price the employer wants to buy it at its lowest.

Again, literally the point of unions is to put those workers on a more equal footing with their employer in these negotiations. Regardless of who "skilled" the work is or isn't.

If someones selling what your selling for less they are going to go for the cheaper option.

Those people are known as "scabs" generally. They're not viewed in a good light by anyone other than themselves and the companies who are happy to be able to have people voluntarily willing to be exploited for shit wages.