Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Sondrelk]

Wether it is needed is not the question. Wether you honestly think Blizz will do it instead of going to easy way out, is the question. Well do you?

It's not even really about the easy way out. At some point the question isnt between [Expansion A: Known location] or [Expansion B: World Revamp]. It will be between whether the expansion will do something nonsensical like have an expansion on a random planet or plane of existence that is not something players know about or whether it will tell at least some stories players want to hear.

The connection the Shadowlands has to the players is tenous at best, especially with how much stuff Blizzard needed to add and retcon to make it function as an expansion. Imagine how it will be when the area we are going to isnt even a place that has been mentioned before.

Do you really think that Blizzard will actively avoid a world revamp even when it is the only sensible option left?

[huth]

Why not have a world revamp?

Because the gain isn't worth the effort required. Individual zone revamps are a possibility, a whole world revamp is extremely unlikely.

[Sondrelk]

Because the gain isn't worth the effort required. Individual zone revamps are a possibility, a whole world revamp is extremely unlikely.

It's a question of technicalities then. Like whether WoD counts as a revamp of TBC.

If a world revamp only goes for a single continent, or even just half of one that still makes it a world revamp by the standardss of what people would expect from one, even if it isnt completely what one would expect.

[Wangming]

It's not even really about the easy way out. At some point the question isnt between [Expansion A: Known location] or [Expansion B: World Revamp]. It will be between whether the expansion will do something nonsensical like have an expansion on a random planet or plane of existence that is not something players know about or whether it will tell at least some stories players want to hear.

The connection the Shadowlands has to the players is tenous at best, especially with how much stuff Blizzard needed to add and retcon to make it function as an expansion. Imagine how it will be when the area we are going to isnt even a place that has been mentioned before.

Do you really think that Blizzard will actively avoid a world revamp even when it is the only sensible option left?

A full world revamp became a necessity the moment they decided to keep TBC and WOTLK areas in the past. The timeline got messed up and it hasn't made sense ever since. You think they will do it now? For whom? Not the old players who are at the cap waiting for the new areas. For alts they will just find the point of least resistance and speedrun in a matter of hours. Or do you think WoW can still attract new players?

Listen, I want a world revamp as much as you. Maybe even more than you. But I don't think Blizzard will use their resources on that if they can do a far away continent with borrowed power mechanics instead. If they ever do a sequel or a relaunch: World of WarCraft: A Realm Reborne, sure they will remake the entire map and it will be glorious. But I'm not holding out my breath.

[Revamp Man]

No shot, the m+ affix isn't in yet

There’s a two week gap between 9.1 launch and season 2

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TBC Classic is launching tomorrow.

You’re right
They are obviously not gonna do any more 9.1 testing this week because classic launch

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Wether it is needed is not the question. Wether you honestly think Blizz will do it instead of going to easy way out, is the question. Well do you?

I think they will do zidormii for 5 zones

[Sondrelk]

A full world revamp became a necessity the moment they decided to keep TBC and WOTLK areas in the past. The timeline got messed up and it hasn't made sense ever since. You think they will do it now? For whom? Not the old players who are at the cap waiting for the new areas. For alts they will just find the point of least resistance and speedrun in a matter of hours. Or do you think WoW can still attract new players?

Listen, I want a world revamp as much as you. Maybe even more than you. But I don't think Blizzard will use their resources on that if they can do a far away continent with borrowed power mechanics instead. If they ever do a sequel or a relaunch: World of WarCraft: A Realm Reborne, sure they will remake the entire map and it will be glorious. But I'm not holding out my breath.

A world revamp because it makes sense to tell teh stories taking place in those zones.

Nothing conclusively states that a world revamp expansion needs to make the same mistakes Cata did with relegating the newly updated zones solely to levelling, nor that they even need to waste time making entirely new zones, or for that matter that they need to treat all zones equally.

As I mentioned previouslym there is a perfectly viable plotline concernign rogue Dark Iron Dwarves ressurecting Ragnaros, along with it being about time for Moira and Thaurissans son to take the throne. Combine all the relevant dwarven areas into one in the sense that all of them deal with the same plot and you have a large amount of zones funneled into one plot that is relevant, has been seeded for a while and scorews brownie points both from the nostalgia crowd of both Dwarves, Ragnaros and those zones in general.

And that is just one small part of a potential world revamp. You could combine most of the zones around Feralas into one dealing with the Botani that escaped along with the technically ongoing plotline of druids attemting to bring vegetation back to Desolace, or even questions like whatever is up with Dire Maul these days.

You don't even need all zones to be used for questlines. One could easily take zones that are not relevant or simply difficult to make into content and make them strictly PvP zones or even leave them for future storytelling.


A world revamp is inevitable if we don't assume the game stops getting updated before that point. As I mentioned above, the connection that players have to this version of the Shadowlands is tenous at best, and this is one of the better options for areas with actual lore we could go to. Where should the game send us after the Dragon isles?

A world revamp isnt even the most resource intensive, it requires a majority of recycled assets and developers changing grass and path textures. It isnt a far-fetched dream that requires stretching the limits of imagination and assuming the developers are capable of designign something we have never seen before, it requires them to make an expansion with the assets they have already made, and move development time from making entirely new zones from scratch to updating zones gradually. Just look at the revamped version of Darkshore for a good example of how small touches can make a world of difference with zones that old. The most significant change in that revamp was changing the skybox from the default, as well as making a new repeated grass texture.

[Dracullus]

10th June - date reveal
15th June - season end notice, pre-download
29th June - release date
13th July - season 2 start

Btw, I wonder where are people believing in August/September date cause some youtuber said so. Probably spreading different bullshit.

“I want cloaks as the reward for the new Mage Tower”

What’s wrong with you? *Has PTSD of MoP and BFA*

Did you even bother to open my link? And what that have to do with MoP and BfA cloaks?

[huth]

It's a question of technicalities then. Like whether WoD counts as a revamp of TBC.

If a world revamp only goes for a single continent, or even just half of one that still makes it a world revamp by the standardss of what people would expect from one, even if it isnt completely what one would expect.

WoD was a new world based on TBC. Cata was an actual revamp. Half of a continent would hardly be a world revamp. Besides, people always complain when Blizz reuses anything for any reason already. It's not as great as you try to make it sound.

The new leveling system renders the whole issue moot anyway.

[Sondrelk]

WoD was a new world based on TBC. Cata was an actual revamp. Half of a continent would hardly be a world revamp. Besides, people always complain when Blizz reuses anything for any reason already. It's not as great as you try to make it sound.

The new leveling system renders the whole issue moot anyway.

Players complain about anything Blizzard does, regardless of what it actually means for the player, or even if it is pbjectively better like what happened with the removal of instant flying in WoD.

Also this idea that a world revamp would only impact levelling needs to stop. A world revamp should not be assumed to make the same mistakes as Cata, you should always at least be willing ot look at it form the reasonable point of view that it would be at least close to the ideal of what you want it to be.

If your ideal world revamp has you do world quests in Stranglethorn vale attacking pirates then at least be willing ot entertain the thought that this is the world revamp you are getting. Obviously some things might be too far fetched and hard to see happening, but I don't think it is insane to assume that a world revamp would have its endgame be in the revamped zones.

[TheFirstOnes]

10th June - date reveal
15th June - season end notice, pre-download
29th June - release date
13th July - season 2 start

Btw, I wonder where are people believing in August/September date cause some youtuber said so. Probably spreading different bullshit.



Did you even bother to open my link? And what that have to do with MoP and BfA cloaks?

I did. I want something new. Not another fucking cloak.

[huth]

Players complain about anything Blizzard does, regardless of what it actually means for the player, or even if it is pbjectively better like what happened with the removal of instant flying in WoD.

Also this idea that a world revamp would only impact levelling needs to stop. A world revamp should not be assumed to make the same mistakes as Cata, you should always at least be willing ot look at it form the reasonable point of view that it would be at least close to the ideal of what you want it to be.

If your ideal world revamp has you do world quests in Stranglethorn vale attacking pirates then at least be willing ot entertain the thought that this is the world revamp you are getting. Obviously some things might be too far fetched and hard to see happening, but I don't think it is insane to assume that a world revamp would have its endgame be in the revamped zones.

But it would only impact leveling. A new area starting off at the previous expansion's level cap can still be a fully seperate map without a world revamp, even if it covers areas we've already been to. A world revamp only makes sense when you want to update the entire world and have some need for consistency. With the new leveling, this becomes largely irrelevant. High level areas need to be seperate from lower level ones anyway.

My ideal world revamp has me exploring new places, not ones i've already spent months to years in. I.e. it doesn't happen at all.

[Nyel]

Crazy how that changes absolutely nothing

Crazy how that's their biggest release this year when it comes to World of Warcraft...

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Why not have a world revamp?
Blizzard will have to address what is happening with all the plot hooks they purposefully left in EK and Kalimdor eventually unless they are actually planning on leaving it for WoW 2.0.

Sure, next expansion could be Dragon Isles for sure, but what about after that? Are we going to another plane of existence with no real connection to anything happening on Azeroth? Especially considering it would need to be an area mentioned this expansion at the earliest?

A world revamp is inevitable, whether it is revamping Northrend, EK, Kalimdor or even MoP.

I really think it's only inevitable in our heads. Don't get me wrong, I wish and hope for a world revamp. But it just isn't worth it. Who profits by a world revamp? Maybe it would work if the entire world is scaling and any zone can be a max level zone with world quests. But as long as every revamped "old world" zone is just for leveling, it's pointless to revamp it. Instead of revamping 5 old zones they just could create a completely new zone which everybody has an interest in. It's just time and effort don't match the outcome when it comes to a whole world revamp.

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10th June - date reveal
15th June - season end notice, pre-download
29th June - release date
13th July - season 2 start

Pretty much d'accord with this release schedule.

[Tiradon]

This changes made to the 15+ season achievement will most likely make me quit to even attempt to do it, not just the changes but the mount itself is just a recolour.

Anyways I don't expect any announcements in the next 2 weeks since it's TBC Classic. Personally I won't be playing it since I don't really care to play something I played very very hardcore back in the day.

[Sondrelk]

But it would only impact leveling. A new area starting off at the previous expansion's level cap can still be a fully seperate map without a world revamp, even if it covers areas we've already been to. A world revamp only makes sense when you want to update the entire world and have some need for consistency. With the new leveling, this becomes largely irrelevant. High level areas need to be seperate from lower level ones anyway.

My ideal world revamp has me exploring new places, not ones i've already spent months to years in. I.e. it doesn't happen at all.

Again, why is levelling always brought up like it is the only reason to ever do a world revamp? Can't a world revamp be something we get because we have loads of old unused zones with loads of storylines waiting to be explored?
Changing levelling 10-50 to take place in a revamped Azeroth is a nice bonus, but I believe most players that want a world revamp wants one because they want an expansion taking place in EK and/or Kalimdor, not because the simply love levelling that much.

Sure, wanting to see entirely new places is a reasonable thing to ask, but so is asking to see the areas we have not truly explored in years and years. Idly flying past the Burning Steppes to do some transmog farming in the raids is not the same as reexploring Burning steppes with a fresh coat of paint and a brand new story.

Besides, while it might be conjecture on my part I do believe that players do want to see areas they actually know. Going to Kul Tiras was exciting because it was a place we knew about but had never seen. Shadowlands was also a place we knew about but had never seen but it required loads of retcons and additions to become a fully fledged expansion. What happens then when we get a place that we do not know exists at all until right before?

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I really think it's only inevitable in our heads. Don't get me wrong, I wish and hope for a world revamp. But it just isn't worth it. Who profits by a world revamp? Maybe it would work if the entire world is scaling and any zone can be a max level zone with world quests. But as long as every revamped "old world" zone is just for leveling, it's pointless to revamp it. Instead of revamping 5 old zones they just could create a completely new zone which everybody has an interest in. It's just time and effort don't match the outcome when it comes to a whole world revamp.

If everyone insists on assuming that revamped zones would be just for levelling then yes it might be mostly irrelevant in the grand scheme. But that is also making the assumption that it will run headfirst into the same exact mistake Cata did.

Again, there are perfectly viable means of revamping the world in such a way that every zone is used to some degree for endgame levelling, which is honestly pretty much the exact same as now. Remember that not the entire zone is used for endgame content, nor is even the entire zone used at all, some is just filler space.

For that matter we don't need the entire old world of EK/Kalimdor either, we could easily just get one if that isnt too much for people to imagine. Most of the old zones are empty wilderness with a smattering of adds roaming about, nothing close to what we have with current zones that at times feel claustrophobic with all the crammed details.
Take Westfall for instance. Sure it is a large zone, but in terms of needed detail it's really only Sentinel Hill, Moonbrook and a couple copy-pasted farmhouses. Change the grass texture, spend some time making Sentinel Hill loo better, change some houses in Moonbrook and you have a revamped zone right there, one that just needs about one fifth the actual content of a similarly large zone needs now considering the small amounts of areas that need dedicated quest mobs and items. Then you repeat that with other similar zones like Elwynn forest, Duskwood, Swamp of Sorrows and Blasted Lands and you have a set of 5 zones that could contain the same human based quesstlines and reputations.

[Dracullus]

This changes made to the 15+ season achievement will most likely make me quit to even attempt to do it, not just the changes but the mount itself is just a recolour.

Anyways I don't expect any announcements in the next 2 weeks since it's TBC Classic. Personally I won't be playing it since I don't really care to play something I played very very hardcore back in the day.

Are people that scared of challenges in this game? New version require more to do, but also gives some flexibility and will end situation where you can't find people for your key cause it's 'wrong' week. Every change has ups and downs.

As for reward I agree, mount recolor is not enough. I would love transmog set with every piece awarded after you climb another 200-300 rating.

And Blizz attend summer games festival on 10th, best way to remind about SL to bigger crowd. You seriosly think there will be still BC hype 10 days from now?

[Vasoka]

So was 9.1 abandoned so they can pump out Classic or what? I am really confused at this point. Are we having a second Tanaan jungle? Will it be WORSE than Tanaan jungle? This is ridiculous at this point, where is 9.1?

[Pebrocks The Warlock]

So was 9.1 abandoned so they can pump out Classic or what? I am really confused at this point. Are we having a second Tanaan jungle? Will it be WORSE than Tanaan jungle? This is ridiculous at this point, where is 9.1?

Yes they abandoned 9.1. That's why there were raid testing going on last week, because it's abandoned.

[Sharein]

A world revamp because it makes sense to tell teh stories taking place in those zones.

Nothing conclusively states that a world revamp expansion needs to make the same mistakes Cata did with relegating the newly updated zones solely to levelling, nor that they even need to waste time making entirely new zones, or for that matter that they need to treat all zones equally.

As I mentioned previouslym there is a perfectly viable plotline concernign rogue Dark Iron Dwarves ressurecting Ragnaros, along with it being about time for Moira and Thaurissans son to take the throne. Combine all the relevant dwarven areas into one in the sense that all of them deal with the same plot and you have a large amount of zones funneled into one plot that is relevant, has been seeded for a while and scorews brownie points both from the nostalgia crowd of both Dwarves, Ragnaros and those zones in general.

And that is just one small part of a potential world revamp. You could combine most of the zones around Feralas into one dealing with the Botani that escaped along with the technically ongoing plotline of druids attemting to bring vegetation back to Desolace, or even questions like whatever is up with Dire Maul these days.

You don't even need all zones to be used for questlines. One could easily take zones that are not relevant or simply difficult to make into content and make them strictly PvP zones or even leave them for future storytelling.


A world revamp is inevitable if we don't assume the game stops getting updated before that point. As I mentioned above, the connection that players have to this version of the Shadowlands is tenous at best, and this is one of the better options for areas with actual lore we could go to. Where should the game send us after the Dragon isles?

A world revamp isnt even the most resource intensive, it requires a majority of recycled assets and developers changing grass and path textures. It isnt a far-fetched dream that requires stretching the limits of imagination and assuming the developers are capable of designign something we have never seen before, it requires them to make an expansion with the assets they have already made, and move development time from making entirely new zones from scratch to updating zones gradually. Just look at the revamped version of Darkshore for a good example of how small touches can make a world of difference with zones that old. The most significant change in that revamp was changing the skybox from the default, as well as making a new repeated grass texture.

An Azeroth world revamp only works when it becomes current content. It's a waste of time and resources if it is just for leveling.

[Sondrelk]

An Azeroth world revamp only works when it becomes current content. It's a waste of time and resources if it is just for leveling.

And that is the mistake Cata did. Please read what I am writing before claiming I just want new levelling.

[Hellspawn]

An Azeroth world revamp only works when it becomes current content. It's a waste of time and resources if it is just for leveling.

Imagine the incursions in BFA but we go into revamped old world zones, doesn't even need to be necessary always faction-based... but I think that's pretty cool to force some open world pvp by putting a lot of player into a zone.
Its would be like the BFA mission table stuff but we would actually do the missons with our characters...

BFA had some good ideas, the warfront areas provided a lots of content with toys, mounts and one off quests, but I think it would have been better if it was more like the incursions with both factions in the same zone at the same time. (Instead of switching it around)
Like every few days we go into another zone and have unique stuff there that you can only do during the event time.

Personally I think they don't even need to make these areas into proper leveling zones if that would make them worse for endgame, but I don't see a problem to have both.