Predictions on a new night elf capital city and zone

[Lochton]

Lore changes. Only the elves would be cross faction sharing.

1. Invent lore to show how the elves end up sharing cities in despite being in separate factions does not end the horde alliance conflict it just creates an exemption for the elves in those zones only. It’s not a hard task.

Well, lore-wise, thanks to Tyrande, the Night Elves would not be welcomed to Suramar City so soon.

2. Create new capitals for void elves and night elves using paste copies of Suramar and Silvermoon with minor alterations like colour scheme for void elves and different layout.

As it stands, I hold my huge doubt that Void Elves would be permitted a city yet, they are still wildcards. As for the Night Elves, I hold to my original thought that since the majority are refugees in Hyjal, that I could see that updated for them.

The rest have no problem sharing within their racial parent or sub group.

And this is sorta why not all races need a city, some races get knocked down before they can get up. Gnomeregan is a good example. They've lost everything there, twice, just to finally get it back and now it needs to be brought back to its glory.

Honestly answer if you think blizzard will actually build new capitals fir them? No. I can only see this happening if they become an expansion centre. Maybe a void expansion has a void city the void elves take over or have built after a time skip and is centre stage.

Well, I have a feeling they will as we are reaching the inevitable goal that the world needs an update once more. Time is just a question.

Maybe an emerald dream expansion or proper Naha expansion has a night elf city at the centre of it the night elves will gain - like Azshara had Zin’Azshari rebuilt stone for stone somewhere in a secret plan to return all elves under her rule. These cities will have quest zones, dungeons and raids tied to them. This justifies their design and use

Well, that is a stretch for now but it is possible, though, at this stage it is turn or die.

Without an expansion focus, they won’t get new city. I don’t see it happening.

No one will get a new place/city without the focus for it, though.

That's the thingd that should happen, except of course the Vulpera settling possibly in Desolace given that kind of neighbors the Centaurs are, and Mag'har possibly settling in Ashenvale since neother them nor MU Orcs will be allowed to go in Ashenvale anytime soon with the Night Elves having been attacked too many times already by the Horde and not willing to let any Horde race but druids to go in their territories for a long time.

Of course it's very unlikely that the Forsaken would want to settle in the long run anywhere but in Lordaeron which may cause other frictions with the Alliance.

As for the Vulpera choice, Desolace is the landscape they enjoy, as for the Centaurs, I believe they are friendly now? They are yellow for me at least, unless you do the quests in Desolace.

And the Mag'har, well, Ashenvale is currently Horde dominated and has a keep/base ready to be used, though I suggested that more because Mag'har, well, need a place and I doubt they wish to be too far from Orgrimmar.

And for the Forsaken, they won't get a chance with Lordaeron unless the Alliance permits it. WPL and EPL are under the control of the Argent Crusade, the City of Lordaeron are currently uninhabitable by both the living and the dead. A lot of the territory as well has been returned to the Alliance through the BFA mission campaigns. I was, one, well - I still am. One of the ones who would like to see Andorhal used for a safe haven home between Humans and Forsaken under the protection of the Argent Crusade.

[geco]

@geco - can anyone explain to me why developers won't take the lazy option out?

What?

Good to the topic.

4-
I think the developers had planned to never touch the Kaldorei or the Forsaken again after BFA and leave the subject closed, forget all the old lore and start with their new and better lore.
But they screwed up so much that now people are ignoring her new lore instead of going for her new best lore. Encesrio we are in SW and there are more songs from Teldrazill than from any of the SW sides.

so as Tyrande said that there is what to rebuild in the next patch. Well, they will have to show the reconstructions.

The funniest thing is that maybe in the end that old lore part sells more than his "new lore" XD

1- If it is going to happen. In one or two expansions. In an expansion that will be in terms of sounds like BFA. but instead of Zandalari and Fat humans. Sera Kaldorei and Forsaken. Maybe with something if they are also smart Dranei, Horde Elves and Wargens.

They will be the new faction capitals of an expansion. That is why they will be rebuilt. Thus giving a closure in the chapter of both races and being able to jump to others (Which are my two favorite races but even I understand that they are not the only ones xD)

two.
I think it will look like version 2.0 of Teldrazzil.
But if they let me dream and put something more creative. I would say an underground city in the old Maiev jail. Let it be a "Fortress" and let the Kaldorei civilian population be in the other areas of expansion. That in this way they show them as a race much more connected with the forests and that. The City will be just a place to run when war starts.

Think of Helm's warning. It is not his home. It is your "hideout" in peacetime living elsewhere.

3.
The base of the Kaldorei will be in Hyjar that of the Forsaken. Perhaps it is above the Undercity. Or get creative and make one of those floating Scourge cities. (Imagine a whole expansion about getting the parts of that city and blowing it up)


PS: Everyone talks about the Kaldorei alongside the Void Elves.
That he really has as much spirit as Kaldorei with Dwarves or Genemos
The Void elves are a race allied to the Humans, not the Kaldorei. If both are called elves but have nothing in common.

It is more if they really put them together conscientiously it would be the end of all the Lords of the void elves.

Elves of the void -Hi we are the elves of the void, we use the magic of the void although we still do not know how to control it and we are faced with the light-
Kaldorei -Hi. If they worship Elune they can use light and void at the same time and the Wardens have been using dark magic for 10,000 years without any problem. They can solve your control problems-

[Aeula]

Why would they bother, they have exile's reach now.

[Beloren]

Well, lore-wise, thanks to Tyrande, the Night Elves would not be welcomed to Suramar City so soon.

.

the whole point of being a creative process is that you can invent anything. Don't tell me the fact that Tyrande's written actions happened is any real impediment for a creative writer - I'm sure you could think of several ways to get past that or around it to make a share possible.. didn't the night elf fans do a big post once on several ways both Silvermoon and Suramar could end up being shared despite their inhabitants being in opposite factions?

After all, how is Dalaran, outland Shattrath etc all shared by multi-faction inhabitants? It is not beyond belief, especially when you think that night elves and Nightborne don't have any racial hatred towards each other, it's even easier for them. And despite hating each other, blood elves, void elves and high elves value both Quel'thalas and the Sunwell above everything - i don't even think the writers need to be that creative to write a share story.


the alternatives would be designing new stuff, and I'd love to see new stuff, it's more exciting, but do we honestly think they'd waste time giving new stuff for existing races rather than plow ahead with completely new stuff we've never seen before

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What?

Good to the topic.

4-
I think the developers had planned to never touch the Kaldorei or the Forsaken again after BFA and leave the subject closed, forget all the old lore and start with their new and better lore.
But they screwed up so much that now people are ignoring her new lore instead of going for her new best lore. Encesrio we are in SW and there are more songs from Teldrazill than from any of the SW sides.

so as Tyrande said that there is what to rebuild in the next patch. Well, they will have to show the reconstructions.

The funniest thing is that maybe in the end that old lore part sells more than his "new lore" XD

1- If it is going to happen. In one or two expansions. In an expansion that will be in terms of sounds like BFA. but instead of Zandalari and Fat humans. Sera Kaldorei and Forsaken. Maybe with something if they are also smart Dranei, Horde Elves and Wargens.

They will be the new faction capitals of an expansion. That is why they will be rebuilt. Thus giving a closure in the chapter of both races and being able to jump to others (Which are my two favorite races but even I understand that they are not the only ones xD)

Oh, there are two Gecos, Gehco and Geco, I must have misspelt the former, but glad you answered. interesting idea, an expansion focused on the night elves and forsaken is not implausible given what happened and the fix they have to make.. but we have had night elven and undead theses galore in Legion and Shadowlands, and those were the two that dominated BFA outside the humans and trolls stories. Would they do another expansion on that? Granted the night elves in legion and the death/undeath in Shadowlands aren't really tied to the playable races, only the leader female characters play significant roles, their followers are really hardly in it or centred. We see the Darnassians have no interaction with Suramar, Azsuna or Val'sharah at all, it is totally new night elven groups, similarly neither the Forsaken and night elven populations have any impact or influence on Sylvanas and Tyrande. Tyrande is avenging the dead as her primary motivation, but there is no involvement of hte living kaldorei. Whiles Sylvanas ' forsaken's role end with the death of Nathanos in the pre-patch.

So if interesting enough, it could work with a revamped Azeroth expansion primarily focusing on Forsaken and Night elves, and those two having new capitals built.

two.
I think it will look like version 2.0 of Teldrazzil.
But if they let me dream and put something more creative. I would say an underground city in the old Maiev jail. Let it be a "Fortress" and let the Kaldorei civilian population be in the other areas of expansion. That in this way they show them as a race much more connected with the forests and that. The City will be just a place to run when war starts.

Think of Helm's warning. It is not his home. It is your "hideout" in peacetime living elsewhere.

Go full on dark elf drow, underground and in the caves, or like the barrow dens, - but that would ort of kill the concept of kaldorei -children of the stars, aren't they more likely to live on tree tops or cities with tall towers bringing them closer to the stars?

the only other trees left are Nordrassil they never lived in, and shaladrassil, which did have a night elf community living on the tree itself similar to Teldrassil but not as extensively..

But would they do another city in the trees or instead do a city around the tree and lake?

3.
The base of the Kaldorei will be in Hyjar that of the Forsaken. Perhaps it is above the Undercity. Or get creative and make one of those floating Scourge cities. (Imagine a whole expansion about getting the parts of that city and blowing it up)


PS: Everyone talks about the Kaldorei alongside the Void Elves.
That he really has as much spirit as Kaldorei with Dwarves or Genemos
The Void elves are a race allied to the Humans, not the Kaldorei. If both are called elves but have nothing in common.

It is more if they really put them together conscientiously it would be the end of all the Lords of the void elves.

Elves of the void -Hi we are the elves of the void, we use the magic of the void although we still do not know how to control it and we are faced with the light-
Kaldorei -Hi. If they worship Elune they can use light and void at the same time and the Wardens have been using dark magic for 10,000 years without any problem. They can solve your control problems-

My bet is for floating scourge city. This is more exciting to be honest than an undercity 2.0, I think forsaken fans will like this alot more, and I think night elf fans would like something that involves both a world tree and their arcane well of eternity.

A touched up floating necropolis or even better a fleet of floating necropolis, mobile undead cities - i can see the undead regaining a lot of their lost strength, dominating northrend, re-enforcing their presence in EPL And WPL even if the humans have regained Tirisfal and silverpine, and having floating cities over other locations like Theramore.


the thing with void elves is that neither void nor high elven fans want Stormwind, they want Silvermoon or a new magical void city. They will never accept Stormwind,. They like the fantasy of the humans and elves working together, but not the elves basically being subject too and dependent on the humans. If blizzard tied them to stormwind indefinitely, they'd never be happy about it.

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As it stands, I hold my huge doubt that Void Elves would be permitted a city yet, they are still wildcards. As for the Night Elves, I hold to my original thought that since the majority are refugees in Hyjal, that I could see that updated for them.

I have serious doubts any of them will get anything - they'd probably give htem nothing or at most let them share. Witill it's a wildcard for the void elves. The thing is they are an allied race, pretty much tied to the blood elves - they will consider Silvermoon first, or a clone with minor alterations second before actually doing them a unique city. imho.

And this is sorta why not all races need a city, some races get knocked down before they can get up. Gnomeregan is a good example. They've lost everything there, twice, just to finally get it back and now it needs to be brought back to its glory.

But all those have the excuse of having a city designed around their race, even if it belongs to another sub-group of the race. Mechagon is gnomish, even if i'ts mecha gnome, it's gnome themed through and through and they'd prefer that to living with Dwarves a totally different race/species. Same with Darkspears,, Dazar'alor works because it's Troll through and through, and it's their original home also. Which is the same argument for Silvermoon and the void/high elves, Suramar and the Darnassian night elves - these are all cities that are actually original homes of these groups

Well, I have a feeling they will as we are reaching the inevitable goal that the world needs an update once more. Time is just a question.

It needed an update in Legion - but i think we all seriously doubt they would ever do it. If they do one it has to be a massive one that will set wow up for the next 15-20 years. But it's well overdue.

It all depends on what they want out of the project. Growth, resurgence, or milk it to dying embers. If the latter, then yes, if the former, then they'd either let Warcraft die altogether or are already designing a WOW2 - but this time rather than do a half job like cata did, do a full job.

Well, that is a stretch for now but it is possible, though, at this stage it is turn or die.

indeed anything is possible. If they have been listening closely to the fans, they'd realise, people want a more down to earth, focus on Azeroth thing. It's like allied races. People were fed up of new races just being churned out and left in the gutter, so wanted sub-races which were at least a continuation and connected to different existing race and thus bring a bit of freshness ot them, creating more customisation.

After the customisation revamp in 9.0, I can see that hands down Allied races was the far better option and more sustainable one if we had to choose. however the best option double hands down was to do both

No one will get a new place/city without the focus for it, though.

Exactly, which is why I think that without a focus you are looking at sharing. in the case of void elves , Night elves - if they find a share to bothersome for the writers, then it would be re-used assets with minor modifications - they have Suramar and silvermoon to reuse - this is the architecture designed for Thalassian elves and Night elves they won't do a fresh redesign without an expansion focus. if they do, it would signal they are definitely pouring money into growing wow instead of just sustaining it. Forsaken woudl probably use old assets too, Naxaramus comes to mind and ICC

As for the Vulpera choice, Desolace is the landscape they enjoy, as for the Centaurs, I believe they are friendly now? They are yellow for me at least, unless you do the quests in Desolace.

Waht's wrong with using Vol'dun and the Sethrakk? Also Tanaris? Aren't the druids restoring Desolace? Isn't that zone still dominated by the kaldorei and their past - not to mention it may be a source of conflict between existing races there, might be too much for the Vulpera. But for Kalimdor, given their Vol'dun life, I'm thinking Tanaris/Un'goro or !K needles is going to be preferable to them than Desolace. Ever thought of burning Steppes, Badlands or Blasted lands also?

And the Mag'har, well, Ashenvale is currently Horde dominated and has a keep/base ready to be used, though I suggested that more because Mag'har, well, need a place and I doubt they wish to be too far from Orgrimmar.

Ashenvale is a good spot for Mag'har actually, htey'd love it. I think Azshara, Duraotar and Barrrens will work well, espeically if hte Barrens overgrowth actually created a large forested area to. Mag'ha have all the clans' diversity in them. What about orc colonies in abandoned Alteraac, there is also Black Rock and burning Steppes, Wetlands too Stranglethorn is another location for a colony But I really like the sound of Ashenvale. oh, they also have Dustswallow Marsh.. they have options.

And for the Forsaken, they won't get a chance with Lordaeron unless the Alliance permits it. WPL and EPL are under the control of the Argent Crusade, the City of Lordaeron are currently uninhabitable by both the living and the dead. A lot of the territory as well has been returned to the Alliance through the BFA mission campaigns. I was, one, well - I still am. One of the ones who would like to see Andorhal used for a safe haven home between Humans and Forsaken under the protection of the Argent Crusade.

yeh the forsaken would have to move. Theramore ruins, Ice crown, Naxxramaus floating city or all of the above could be good for the.

[Mic_128]

I can't see them setting up shop in Hyjal, for a few reasons.

1. It's going to need to be completely revamped to include a Night Elven starting area, which while it could be done, would need to be phased, because
2. Hyjal is a massive questing area from Cata, and includes a raid. But if it's phased, that means -
3. Massive lag issues. Crystalsong Forest got scraped as a questing zone in Wrath because it was a nightmare having people questing in the same zone as a capital city. Admittedly this might not be as bad, because it's an old zone and the city most likely won't be used as much (seriously, why couldn't we alternate cities as the main assault points in each expansion?) but could still cause issues
4. It puts an Alliance capital city a zone away from a Horde capital. While it could be fun, I could see it being used as a springboard for easy-access invading.

[Lochton]

the whole point of being a creative process is that you can invent anything. Don't tell me the fact that Tyrande's written actions happened is any real impediment for a creative writer - I'm sure you could think of several ways to get past that or around it to make a share possible.. didn't the night elf fans do a big post once on several ways both Silvermoon and Suramar could end up being shared despite their inhabitants being in opposite factions?

Well, if we were to follow the lore as it is now, they wouldn't be shared, that being said, it does not mean it'll stay like that forever.

After all, how is Dalaran, outland Shattrath etc all shared by multi-faction inhabitants? It is not beyond belief, especially when you think that night elves and Nightborne don't have any racial hatred towards each other, it's even easier for them. And despite hating each other, blood elves, void elves and high elves value both Quel'thalas and the Sunwell above everything - i don't even think the writers need to be that creative to write a share story.

Well, Dalaran and Shattrath as a question, declared themselves neutral either of choice or common goal. Hence everyone was welcome in the end (excluding the moment Jaina went mad).

As for the Sunwell, the isle is actually neutral, and held such thanks to the Blood Elves and Draenei, though Void Elves are frowned upon on this island.

the alternatives would be designing new stuff, and I'd love to see new stuff, it's more exciting, but do we honestly think they'd waste time giving new stuff for existing races rather than plow ahead with completely new stuff we've never seen before

Well, as stated before, I believe they hold no problem making something new coming the content demanding it but for now, the time has not passed long, nor is it the right content.

[UndedoKoleda]

I think the Night Elves will have their "new capital" near the Stormwind embassy, where the refugees are now. There are plenty of trees, there is a lake, and the majority of the Night Elf population is already there. Plus it will follow the trend of Blizzard updating the two main capitals in the game- Orgrimmar and Stormwind.

[Skirdus]

How has no one brought up Dire Maul / Eldre'thalas yet? That place is just begging to be reconstructed as a proper capital city

[Lochton]

I have serious doubts any of them will get anything - they'd probably give htem nothing or at most let them share. Witill it's a wildcard for the void elves. The thing is they are an allied race, pretty much tied to the blood elves - they will consider Silvermoon first, or a clone with minor alterations second before actually doing them a unique city. imho

I doubt they would need a unique city. Though, I do not feel them as being a recently joined sub-race to be permitted to construct a city right away. I can believe maybe in the same levels as High Elves, a town, or partial. Many of their own frown on them, they are in lore still respected by many Blood Elves but their choice has cost their home.

But all those have the excuse of having a city designed around their race, even if it belongs to another sub-group of the race. Mechagon is gnomish, even if i'ts mecha gnome, it's gnome themed through and through and they'd prefer that to living with Dwarves a totally different race/species. Same with Darkspears,, Dazar'alor works because it's Troll through and through, and it's their original home also. Which is the same argument for Silvermoon and the void/high elves, Suramar and the Darnassian night elves - these are all cities that are actually original homes of these groups

I hold my belief, for the Gnomes, they would rather not move out of their location. They are small, but their pride is large, and to them, Mechagon, though glorious, has a dark past of forcing Gnomes to turn or die (sorry to repeat from the Queen part) and just recently become well, free (The Mechagnomes).

As for the trolls, I can believe them to be able to use Dezar'alor but they are heavy on tradition as well, which would make it hard to leave Darkspear Isles.

Void Elves and High Elves sadly still, without large lore content, have to look far for a different home, the High Elves if getting home sick, could move in at the Sunwell isle but the Void Elves cannot - for now, they are stuck with the Rift.

And coming to Suramar, it has pledged its allegiance to the Horde, and I do not believe it would open up to the Night Elves for a few reasons, one of them being Tyrande's first contact, another being that the society has changed way more for the Nightborne than it has for the Night Elves, and well, last being that the Nightborne are now Horde - so a structured story would have to happen for them to suddenly welcome Night Elves.

It needed an update in Legion - but i think we all seriously doubt they would ever do it. If they do one it has to be a massive one that will set wow up for the next 15-20 years. But it's well overdue.

Which is why in the end, all we do is speculate. I'd rather an update within the next 5 years.

It all depends on what they want out of the project. Growth, resurgence, or milk it to dying embers. If the latter, then yes, if the former, then they'd either let Warcraft die altogether or are already designing a WOW2 - but this time rather than do a half job like cata did, do a full job.

We know, if they want milking, we'll be tasting the dirt right now, if they want growth, they need to revert their priorities to be more directed, and for some communities, not make content that feels disconnected from the world, as well as feeling way out of our field. I'm a fan of down-to-earth threats, and I feel we need that sooner than later before we return to the bloat we once had, of every player being the world saving champion when we truly should be the explorers, adventurers, or war veterans.

indeed anything is possible. If they have been listening closely to the fans, they'd realise, people want a more down to earth, focus on Azeroth thing. It's like allied races. People were fed up of new races just being churned out and left in the gutter, so wanted sub-races which were at least a continuation and connected to different existing race and thus bring a bit of freshness ot them, creating more customisation.

After the customisation revamp in 9.0, I can see that hands down Allied races was the far better option and more sustainable one if we had to choose. however the best option double hands down was to do both

I've always been a fan of Allied Races more than having to give everyone the wide brush by making a new race, as for down-to-earth, well, my previous reply (see just above this) it is something I dream off.

Exactly, which is why I think that without a focus you are looking at sharing. in the case of void elves , Night elves - if they find a share to bothersome for the writers, then it would be re-used assets with minor modifications - they have Suramar and silvermoon to reuse - this is the architecture designed for Thalassian elves and Night elves they won't do a fresh redesign without an expansion focus. if they do, it would signal they are definitely pouring money into growing wow instead of just sustaining it. Forsaken woudl probably use old assets too, Naxaramus comes to mind and ICC

Well, some things just cannot be shared though without making large story changes to facilitate it. As for the Forsaken, Naxxramas has a higher chance than ICC, as ICC is held with a clutch by Bolvar and the Death Knights. For the Forsaken, when they revealed Calia's transformation, I had hoped for a shared home within Andorhal, human and forsaken reunited with their families under the protection of the crusade but I doubt it would happen, and they would most likely need to move somewhere else, or maybe even build out a new city at vengeance landing in Howling Fjord.

Waht's wrong with using Vol'dun and the Sethrakk? Also Tanaris? Aren't the druids restoring Desolace? Isn't that zone still dominated by the kaldorei and their past - not to mention it may be a source of conflict between existing races there, might be too much for the Vulpera. But for Kalimdor, given their Vol'dun life, I'm thinking Tanaris/Un'goro or !K needles is going to be preferable to them than Desolace. Ever thought of burning Steppes, Badlands or Blasted lands also?

Well, Vol'dun as I pointed out in a comment is viable but needs work, a lot of it. And for the Sethrakk, well, I'd rather it be a town/caravan for the Vulpera and the Sethrakk may do their thing. And I did suggest Tanaris, as for Desolace, it is currently held by Centaur (Though I still believe friendly now), the Cenarion Circle (Neutral faction) and trolls. I do not believe Burning Steppes will be a good idea due to Dwarves in general (Dark Iron and normal Dwarves residing there), Blasted lands is currently iffy, heavy ogre presence, and too much of a front line, not to mention the Kul Tiran maybe wants their keep restored again. Badlands is viable, there is the dwarves there (but they are the hostile non-Alliance), as well as a presence of Goblins and Orcs, though not sure about the Dragonkin presence.

Ashenvale is a good spot for Mag'har actually, htey'd love it. I think Azshara, Duraotar and Barrrens will work well, espeically if hte Barrens overgrowth actually created a large forested area to. Mag'ha have all the clans' diversity in them. What about orc colonies in abandoned Alteraac, there is also Black Rock and burning Steppes, Wetlands too Stranglethorn is another location for a colony But I really like the sound of Ashenvale. oh, they also have Dustswallow Marsh.. they have options

I was trying to suggest something with an opening for development, hence those zones.

yeh the forsaken would have to move. Theramore ruins, Ice crown, Naxxramaus floating city or all of the above could be good for the.

Theremore ruins is a no-go, that is a declaration of war. Icecrown is doable, they could claim the Scarlet harbor or something, else there is Death Knight and Crusade presence. Naxxramas is viable as it is just a floating empty husk, though close proximity to the Alliance keep of humans and high elves.

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How has no one brought up Dire Maul / Eldre'thalas yet? That place is just begging to be reconstructed as a proper capital city

See now, that is a VERY good candidate for the Night Elves. It is in a zone with heavy Night Elf activity, as well as Tauren, which both have had great glory in cooperating before. The ruin is flushed out except for stray ogres and creatures (lore-wise), and a lot of materials nearby/around it for building it up.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Outside of another capital at Nordrassil the Night Elves should build new defensive forts or intelligence spots in Ashenvale to prepare for potential other Horde incursions inside their lands, shared with Worgens who'd give them riffles and other tech or alchemical equipment , and possibly rebuild and repopulate a long abandonned town.

[baskev]

And so is the Thalassian elf disgust at the night elves, they are sitting on such power with the Well of Eternity.. what's their excuse this time for not using it? Legion is gone, they don't even have addiction issues now .. they need a city , they have both the arcane experts and nature experts that built the great cities of old.. and what do they do?

NOTHING !! - this is why Thalassians look down on Darnassians, they do nothing. They prefer aimless wandering around forests rather than properly lookign after themselves or guarding the legacy of the elven people. What a waste. Looks like they lost something in the sundering that never came back.

?? was talking withsome else about something else?

And what has this to do with bringing back teldrassil/making a new one?

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So what? Things can't nor should be equally balanced always? But they aren't that short..

Even further so, if we do count the Allied races without a city, they would be too bold to make a city now, when they are just new members with their factions.

So, if we return to the list but this time only counts cities with faction access without being assaulted - we could ignore the claim of the Bilgewater Cartel as their city does not seem to be approved by some as a city, nor does it offer much in the form of services, we could even remove Thunder Totem because both factions have access to them, I guess we have the following.

Race:	City Available:
Human	Stormwind City
Dwarf	Ironforge
Draenei	The Exodar
Kul Tiran	Boralus
Orcs	Orgrimmar
Tauren	Thunder Bluff
Blood Elf	Silvermoon City
Zandalari Trolls	Dezar'alor

Nope a eqaul balance is not needed. But a heavy imbalance neither.

If bilgewater and thunder are not cities. neither should boralus and exodar. Same size etc.
And why not allied cities. In lore/game you can use some of them. But not others? They should also be added. and then the list changes again.
Like many you are moving goal post. Or making my answer into something else.

In lore and in game right now horde have more cities to use. Bilgewater is missing from your list. its big enough to be on this list if boralus is also on it. suramar is also a big city. Also not on the list.

[Beloren]

As for the trolls, I can believe them to be able to use Dezar'alor but they are heavy on tradition as well, which would make it hard to leave Darkspear Isles.

They only been on Echo isles a few years, what is that compared to ancestral homeland in Zuldazar? IT is certainly better than sharing with the orcs in Orgrimmar. Trolls faced a lot of discrimination by orcs - especially during the Garrosh days, they'd want their own place. They were building Zul'Gurub type structures in echo isles at the cata revamp. Maybe that's been finished now trade with Zuldazar has fully opened up. They got extra help? or they basically moved to Dazar'alor and kept Echo isles as the troll centre for operations on Kalimdor - or that could move to Zul'Farrak in Tanaris, which is supposedly an ancient city in much need of a revamp.

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Well, Vol'dun as I pointed out in a comment is viable but needs work, a lot of it. And for the Sethrakk, well, I'd rather it be a town/caravan for the Vulpera and the Sethrakk may do their thing. And I did suggest Tanaris, as for Desolace, it is currently held by Centaur (Though I still believe friendly now), the Cenarion Circle (Neutral faction) and trolls. I do not believe Burning Steppes will be a good idea due to Dwarves in general (Dark Iron and normal Dwarves residing there), Blasted lands is currently iffy, heavy ogre presence, and too much of a front line, not to mention the Kul Tiran maybe wants their keep restored again. Badlands is viable, there is the dwarves there (but they are the hostile non-Alliance), as well as a presence of Goblins and Orcs, though not sure about the Dragonkin presence.
.

The earlier comment of Vulpera having a moving capital, but on the ground -- we have moving cities, also sailing cities (the pandaren turtle), but what about some sort of extraordinary moving camp capital. Not sure how you'd make that exciting and fun or even impressive, but it would be a creative challenge.

you can tell I'm a fan of creative challenge, or i'd never have gotten on board with the elf capital sharing concept (which i didn't originate btw). To be honest, we need things like that, that can generate clever and creative developments for the story, it will help move things along and make them more interesting.. it would be too predictable and a lot of work just to give new capitals like that, even though that is my most preferred option.. the elves sharing capitals could provide very interesting story progressions, but Vulpera and a mobile capital, location, well, I look forward to the team that can make that work.

[Vaedan]

So:

1. Do you think this will actually happen? When? how?

2. What do you think it will look like?

3. Where do you think it will happen?

4. Why should it really happen?

My thoughts on this topic:

1. Storywise, it seems night elves are about to rebuild their society. They suffered major trauma and some of them displayed their desire to restore their homes. Gameplay wise, hard to say. If there is going to be a world revamp expansion, that's the most ideal time to do so. Timeskip would help as well. I'm also up for the idea of kaldorei expanding to numerous parts of Kalimdor.

2. I'd like to see a combination of wooden and marble architecture. Think of New Darnassus build with Legion assets seen in Val'sharah/Azsuna, but way more natural and humble then Suramar city itself. I can imagine city devided into several districts
- Temple district: Central part, heart of the city. Temple of Elune surrounded by gardens and pools of moonblessed waters. This district would be build of pure marble and complemented with greenery, in the same way darnassian Temple was.
- Cenarion district: open space area situated on at the back of the city, the druidic part of the city. Filled with statues of Wild Gods, patrolling druids, dryads, keepers and ancients. There would be also underground part with Barrow dens. I can also imagine a tree with hippogryph, chimaera and faerie dragon roosts, with Druids of the Talon taking care of them.
- Craftsmen district: a part of city dedicated to trades. Build with traditional wooden architecture we've seen in Val'sharah. It is a place for profession trainers and vendors.
- Sentinel district: located at the entrance to the city, with a massive gate (think of old darnassian gate or Feathermoon stronghold) and elven towers. Archers, huntresses and sentinel regiments patrolling around. I can also think of underground part with watchers and wardens.
- New Moonguard: situated between Sentinel and Temple district, being basically one terraced building similar to Moonguard Stronghold in Suramar. This part would be dedicated to new Moonguard recruits being taught by Shen'dralar and original Moonguard survivors. It would include library with various arcane tomes, scrolls and magical artifacts and reagents. Astromancy sanctum on the very top with astrolabes and star charts of azerothian skies.

3) Hyjal, at the passage to the Nordrassil, where Thrall's base was during the defense od World Tree and where we fight fire elementals during Cataclysm.

4) To be honest, we don't really need new cities from gameplay perspective. Most of our time, we spent time in SW/OG and expansion main hub. On the other hand, it is definitely needed for worldbuilding. World with two cities just don't feel alive and it hurts your player experience.

I would love if capital cities would have some meaning in game. I can think of having some casual and/or lore activities being connected to them, like offering dailies/WQs/scenarios with racial themed transmogs, pets, mounts, toys or even glyphs? I can also imagine having something like garrison invasions included, where you defend your city against most common enemies of your race. In that way, every racial capital could be updated to provide more connection to your race and to your faction as well. If you would not like that content, you'd not have to do it.

[Stardrift]

Tbh, do you not think that blizzard will add Gnomes to Mechagon and Trolls to Dazar'alor rather than give them a separate city? That seems the easiest thing to do.

Harder would be to add void and high elves to Silvermoon and Night elves to Suramar - although those cities are by lore the original homes of both those racial factions.

From a developer point of view, why waste time building great new cities for Trolls, Gnomes, Night elves and void/high elves - when you actually already have racial ones.. to me it seems you could massively save development time by simply writing a story that shows these places opening up to those races and living together, rather than build a new city that has no use. I'm just saying.. resources etc. They'd also probably prefer it, because writing how void and high elves get to share with blood elves and night elves get to share with nightborne is probably going to be a lot more interesting than - plunk. hey new city.

Disclaimer It won't happen ofc, blizzard don't do logic. My prediction is they do nothing.

No, absolutely. I understand what you're explaining.

If Blizz were to ever intend on giving Gnomes and Trolls proper homes, they'd have made Gnomeregan and that shit'n'sticks island off the coast of Durotar into cities back in Cataclysm. That way, they'd actually be used

Instead they took the rehash route and redid Stormwind and Orgrimmar. I get that they'd rather not waste resources on something that would only be used for one expansion cycle. But a new city almost viewed as an actual feature for an expansion. When a new expansion gets announced, people get excited to see where they're going to be spending most of their time at. Remember the massive letdown that was with WoD cancelling their cities? .

[ravenmoon]

all the information we have tells us that Nordrassil is the new capital there the night elves and their government moved.

the elves of the alliance have nothing to do with quelthalas.

I think every void elf and high elf would beg to differ.

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My thoughts on this topic:

1. Storywise, it seems night elves are about to rebuild their society. They suffered major trauma and some of them displayed their desire to restore their homes. Gameplay wise, hard to say. If there is going to be a world revamp expansion, that's the most ideal time to do so. Timeskip would help as well. I'm also up for the idea of kaldorei expanding to numerous parts of Kalimdor.

2. I'd like to see a combination of wooden and marble architecture. Think of New Darnassus build with Legion assets seen in Val'sharah/Azsuna, but way more natural and humble then Suramar city itself. I can imagine city devided into several districts
- Temple district: Central part, heart of the city. Temple of Elune surrounded by gardens and pools of moonblessed waters. This district would be build of pure marble and complemented with greenery, in the same way darnassian Temple was.
- Cenarion district: open space area situated on at the back of the city, the druidic part of the city. Filled with statues of Wild Gods, patrolling druids, dryads, keepers and ancients. There would be also underground part with Barrow dens. I can also imagine a tree with hippogryph, chimaera and faerie dragon roosts, with Druids of the Talon taking care of them.
- Craftsmen district: a part of city dedicated to trades. Build with traditional wooden architecture we've seen in Val'sharah. It is a place for profession trainers and vendors.
- Sentinel district: located at the entrance to the city, with a massive gate (think of old darnassian gate or Feathermoon stronghold) and elven towers. Archers, huntresses and sentinel regiments patrolling around. I can also think of underground part with watchers and wardens.
- New Moonguard: situated between Sentinel and Temple district, being basically one terraced building similar to Moonguard Stronghold in Suramar. This part would be dedicated to new Moonguard recruits being taught by Shen'dralar and original Moonguard survivors. It would include library with various arcane tomes, scrolls and magical artifacts and reagents. Astromancy sanctum on the very top with astrolabes and star charts of azerothian skies.

3) Hyjal, at the passage to the Nordrassil, where Thrall's base was during the defense od World Tree and where we fight fire elementals during Cataclysm.

4) To be honest, we don't really need new cities from gameplay perspective. Most of our time, we spent time in SW/OG and expansion main hub. On the other hand, it is definitely needed for worldbuilding. World with two cities just don't feel alive and it hurts your player experience.

I would love if capital cities would have some meaning in game. I can think of having some casual and/or lore activities being connected to them, like offering dailies/WQs/scenarios with racial themed transmogs, pets, mounts, toys or even glyphs? I can also imagine having something like garrison invasions included, where you defend your city against most common enemies of your race. In that way, every racial capital could be updated to provide more connection to your race and to your faction as well. If you would not like that content, you'd not have to do it.

Thanks for your thoughts, I appreciate them. don't be offended if I don't agree with all of them despite appreciating hearing them.

Response to your Point 1
1. Agreed, but tbh, they've been on this cusp since the end of WC3 - when the legion returned, the need for isolation, a rural exclusive existence defending the well and abstinence from practising the arcane all no longer became necessary. Coupled with the rise of young races, irresponsibility and the knowledge and guidance they had to offer, they should have been getting their shit together a lot sooner.

I think their lack of progress is because of lack of development and the fact blizzard doesn't continuously update every race as events flow.

Response to your Point 2
2. I somewhat agree. I can understand Darnassus looking a bit rural back then, it is their first city in 10,000 years, they aren't using arcane magic, an over abundance of wood thanks to the newly grown tree, sorta makes sense.

For me i think the druidic side is not shown in wooden homes at all, druids lie barrow dens, they are minimalists, their preference is undisturbed nature, as seen by the Val'sharah homes, I don't think they would need city representation Io think their influence and presence is beset served in two ways:
a) In gardens - beautiful gardens, temple gardens, roof top gardens - like we see in the images of Zin'Azshari in the Azshara Warbringers - the city is beautiful and littered with gardens amongst the incredible looking buildings.
b) A forest outside the city or surrounding the city, the city on the edge for middle of a great forest would have the druids there. however homes underneath great trees in the city could serve as druid HQs.

There is no need for craftsmen/tradesman terraces of Darnassus, nor for them to be wooden - they now have arcane magic, arcane expertise to basically go full on kaldorei.

For me, I personally feel homes like we see in Val'Sharah are perfect for woodland villages and remote settlements in a the druidic half of the night elves spread throughout the forests. Remember they are only a portion of the kaldorei, not all of it.

Temples, marble structures, homes for citizens these would all 100% be beautifully carved marble structures the very same night elves built 10k millennia ago - it is their style, and I don't see why the ancients and Shen'dralar Highborne that remember all of this won't build the same - why destroy trees or distort them to make homes when you can magic arcane and nature fused marble? And now have the means.

A More Lore Accurate Presentation for A Night Elf City (imo)
For me the night elves will have Forests and gardens representing the nature love, Temples representing Elune, but the core of the city would be a kaldorei city with homes, embassies, and other structures built for a city. A city is not he whole of their culture, but it is an important part of culture, and they'll have that.

So I agree with you on most of this except for the wooden structures - the beauty of druidism is reflected in the beautiful and lush forestry and gardens, the reason why druids are so low key/humble /minimalist is that they view the richest tapestry in not something crafted by hand but by nature, so what they wear isn't relevant, they don't need to try to look beautiful or build beautifully, a flower is more beautiful than the best tailor's design for clothes, and the forest trees with it's beauty and complexity will beat any structure.. that's their view.. they won't be dwelling in a city. Cities are for citizens, officials, government leaders, Highborne types too, ministry of magic - they need Academies, halls, they build things with magic, have embassies, require trade, economy - non of this is relevant to druids or their culture, so they won't have representation in there.

The Kaldorei Architectural Styles
Besides the architecture of the kaldorei is quite established and visible in game. For cities - you have Zin'Azsahri, Suramar, Eldre'thalas, and when you look at ruins like Nar'thalas, Sargeron and Vashj'ir that is how they do cities. Towns like Tel'anor, Meredil etc. When you go to forest areas, the architecture shifts, it's not full of structures because the forest culture don't have people living together, they are spread out, with minimum disruption to nature, this is why partly they are often underground in trees and caves, and never more than handful of families.. they are spread throughout the forest.. and they have a style that matches.. this is the rural style.

when you get to fortresses, the style shifts, Moonguard stronghold, Black Rook Hold, the Warden Vault are examples of this. The variation in architecture is also quite justified, this is a race that spanned the entire globe, you cannot expect one style only, you would have multiple versions and variations tailored.

if you look at the volume done for night elves, they have something for everything, they don't need to design a new set, just simply give what's appropriate to the appropriate area. If you are making a city, you have the style and assets for that you use that, if you're making a forest village or settlement, you have the assets for that and use that, if you are making a fortress, you have those assets there.

it's all there. Any new nigh elf city would basically be along the lines we have seen from Legion onwards.

historically, the kaldorei style has always been a beautiful city built by arcane infused with nature, full of lush gardens, in a beautiful natural landscape either sculptured by magic or wild verdant forests - they don't merge their themes they separate them, theirs been a night based thing, with moon temples and astrological towers, and natural beauty of forests, lakes and gardens.. T his is their established style reflected from Darnassus through to Zin'Azshari every time. for night elven urban centres. And it's fine, it's actually quite stuning, why change it or re-invent the wheel? Save that for a new race.

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The Issue with A Wood City for Kaldorei
You basically don't need a night elf city in Hyjal to have tree homes and wooden homes, you can have it be a city, you will have trees and forest land in the actually lands and forests in the area.. Hyjal is one massive forest anyway, in that forest you can have tree homes for the various druidic families who love living there. You can also have various towns which would be towns for the portion of the community that do that sort of thing.

There is no need to mix persay, and the concept of night elven druidism would make adding such a combination thoughtless, and inconsistent. How can you give the druids such a background, then have them essentially making tree homes and living in cities in total contrast to what you've written them to be. Nah, any druid living in a city would be living in its gardens and parks, and probably be the one responsible for it, most would be doing their work in barrow dens in the forest at large, or in the emerald dream in their dream trance.

Blizzard don't need to re-invent the wheel again for the night elves, to show something spectacular again for a race they have already had some incredible styles implemented - did you not love Suramar and Zin'Azshari? Tel'anor and shal'anir? i have read some people wanting a tree city for night elves.. sigh.. that is not the night elf style and it doesn't make sense for the people, the culture and where they are at.. such a thing is befitting a new race. e.g. if the Worgen night elves form the emerald dream now came in as a an allied race, to Val'Sharah, they'd have tree homes in Shaldrassil, and have that sort of culture.

A fully druidic sub-race that's not the puritan druidism of Malfurion (seeing he banished them), but some new pseudo culture, restored sanity by the scythe of Elune, they can have a tree home for they are 100% druidic culture race of their own, not a mixture of 3 different disciplines like the kaldorei are (arcane, nature and Elune), and they'd have bene living in nature for the last 9 to 7,000 years). they would also have no defined style. it will have similarities to the night elf forest homes, but can now afford to be much more involved and complex.

I've heard a lot of demands for night elves to get tree homes especially from horde blood elf fans. While there night elf enthusiasm is to be commended, they show little understanding of the race, and seem to just want to avoid the night elves getting elven civilization of their lore because Suramar is now horde more than they actually want to see good stuff for night elves. And as such miss the finer points and how what they are suggesting goes against the flow of hte night elf race as is. one that already has a well established tradition spanning 15,000 years.

The Ideal Place for Wood / Tree City
No, if you want a tree forest city with a new design and imagination, you need a new race for that. Take your pick: Worgen night elves, Cenarian (dryad/keeper), Botanni, Sylvar of Arden Weald, Furbolgs - that's what you do.

People who don't follow night elves and just go by level 1-20 keep missing that night elves are not a 100% forest elf race, weren't meant to be, weren't designed to be, and were never executed fully to be. They have a large element of that, but are also tied to 100% forest races: including Worgen, Cenarions & Furbolgs. This is why Darnassus is an actual city, and not a tree top city. They don't understand that. they see trees, forest elf like druids being the dominant group amongst the night elves and forget about priestesses, ignore the history, ignore Darnassus, ignore the lore and go.. yes.. this is night elves.

None of them are night elf fans, they are usually blood elf fans, invested in another faction and really only caring about it - which doesn't stop them from making some good contributions to alliance race discussions, but also make their lack of knowledge or grasp of the kaldorei can be equally telling.

[TheFirstOnes]

Yeah, why are people asking for a World Revamp? Pls wait till all the foes are defeated for that to happen.

[ravenmoon]

Response to your Point 3

For me, a city around the base of Nordrassil, just off the Well of Eternity Lake, just like Elundis/Zin'Azshari would be perfect..
Behind it you have massive forests, and clearings for towns (htanks to the firelands invasions), and you have both the Tree and the Well.

it's the most defensible spot, it's the highest peak too, and it has their most treasured and precious resource. The Well of Eternity, and the Emerald Dream accessing Nordarssil.

Alternatively a huge city can be built in the burnt wood where the firelands thing happened, leaving the route up tot he lake and tree more isolated. I look at Hyjal as a vast mountain forest land. think of the Everest Range or some of those incredible vistas of mountain ranges covered in forest land.

Basically there is more than enough forest for all your druidic love and culture.. you can afford to have a proper city and temple for your much smaller urban, highborne and priestly populations. Although technically, the Highborne and priest won't be a smaller population at all, it's just that the druids spread over vast swathes of forest lands, working with wild gods to protect it in the waking and with Gren dragons in the dream.

With the Highborne's return and opening up of the Well of eternity, we could also have a sizeable blue dragon presence, Highborne from teh shen'drlaar led order, and from the Court of Farondis Nar'thalas academics can work with the blue dragons and maybe even have a new magic directive targetted not only at research and development, but also safeguarding magic from irresponsible use. This is one area ll night elves can work towards arcane and non-arcane ones, and itw as the area the blues were inovlved with. Dalaran is it's own separate entity and works for the younger races, it also devotes itself to a lot of political mangement - they don't necessarily have to clash, although they can work together.

Response to your Point 4

100% agreed here, I think cities are important as a part of the world landscape, given you do ave races, and must be included. Even if they don't have much use so to speak.

however it is also quite easy to give them use, in fact, I worked with Mace on an expansive post about ways to make cities really relevant and sort of a progression system of their own that will endure the expansion resets, because their progress would not be dependent on player power, so they don't have to reset with the expansion cycle.

A centre for racial campaign quest givers, lore dialogues concerning race, NPCs that can give you the history and activity of the race for those who want to explore the city, can all be added. there most effective use however is also having or being quest hubs like Suramar was, having dungeons and instances tied to them.


if every expansion gave 2-3 racial cities that were the source of quests, dungeons and raids, we could probably have racial capitals for most races done. Allied races have provided updated capital for most of the existing races, so you have choice of the original or the new home - mechagon, Dazar'alor, Boralus, Suramar (even though night elves don't call it home), are all examples. highmountain was an update tauren city, we saw new Draenei cities and orc ones in WoD. So the races can either move their or blizzard simply reuse those assets as new homes.

No need to destroy the original, just have the new one in a nearby location, 2 cities are better than one right?

[Rhlor]

I think every void elf and high elf would beg to differ.

.

high elves are customization for blood elves and void elves, high elves as a race does not exist. if you use high elf custom in your blood elf or void elf you are a high elf! blizz devs says it.

void elves have their new home in telogrus

[Beloren]

high elves are customization for blood elves and void elves, high elves as a race does not exist. if you use high elf custom in your blood elf or void elf you are a high elf! blizz devs says it.

void elves have their new home in telogrus

Don't confuse playable options with racial faction. High elves are a racial faction. They're not playable as a faction of elves even though you can play as one via the void elves (and by extension a blood elf), it is a high elf that has joined the ren'dorei (via the new customisation options), but they are still a faction of elves in the world.. just not playable as such.

[Hardwing]

No, absolutely. I understand what you're explaining.

If Blizz were to ever intend on giving Gnomes and Trolls proper homes, they'd have made Gnomeregan and that shit'n'sticks island off the coast of Durotar into cities back in Cataclysm. That way, they'd actually be used

Instead they took the rehash route and redid Stormwind and Orgrimmar. I get that they'd rather not waste resources on something that would only be used for one expansion cycle. But a new city almost viewed as an actual feature for an expansion. When a new expansion gets announced, people get excited to see where they're going to be spending most of their time at. Remember the massive letdown that was with WoD cancelling their cities? .

Nice idea actually. They could have us help build up the new Cities for the Night Elves/Forsaken during the next expansion. Like building new parts due to communal efforts in questing, gathering and creating stuff. These could be heavyly influenced by Ardenweald for the NE and Maldraxus for the FS ... of course this would mean it is rather a "Dragon Isle" expansion than a Undercity one, if they don't want to have three major cities in it.

As for the place: Hyal seems like a good idea for me, though it was said to mainly belong to the Wild Gods, but maybe Blizz surprises us and they choose Feralas with total rework of Dire Maul/Eldre'Thalas. Forsaken probably keep their place though, deciding to live on the ground for now.

There are a lot of races whom to help found new settlements would be a great idea and help vitalize the world, but these two definitely would be the only ones to get cities, given the number we have already.