This is World of Warcraft - Carbot new video

[Rinnegan2]

You're delusional if you think over 6 million people quit solely because of vanity store mounts, and no other reason.

Like, straight up "please take your meds" delusional.

it has been the #1 reason since 2010. we work through reason #1, #2, #3, #4 and so on until no budget is left. and then wow'll be close to 12 mio subs again.

[vizzle]

Ah, the thing none of us will ever know. Gotcha.

?

Mate, I guess you're not a numbers guy? The rate of joining and the rate of quitting = the sub count over time. Which we do know, roughly, over the last 10 years, has plummeted.

[Asrialol]

Why are things that improve the game behind a cashop? They intentionally let you "level through the dogshit classic zones" - so they can sell boosts to you. Back in the days' developers tried to make their games better - nowadays they make their games intentionally shit so you spend real moneys to not have to do the shit part. Completely hilarious.

Back in the days the vanilla zones were still dogshit to many people, so having the choice to either cash out a small fee for a boost, or spend hours leveling - oh shit, what the fuck? It's a choice? Holy shit! That's crazy!

They're not changing the leveling experience from 1-58 as it was what, 15 years ago, back when developers tried to make their game better, right? They're giving an option to skip it. How the fuck is that a bad thing? That it costs a small fee? Again, optional. Holy crap! It's a choice?! Crazy!

I love how you say level boosts are good for the game, but behind a cash shop, and also a shit way for developers to be lazy. Probably the most inconsistent and moronic argument I've ever witnessed on this fansite.

Thanks, though. Was fun.

[heartless8604]

You guys say it's not true, but it is.

He was right. You think you do, but you don't.

[Asrialol]

How about you suck the f*ck up that not everyone likes the current state of the game and be respectful? If someone makes a video about how the game is currently best version of itself, fine. I don't care. But these kind of statements are laughable.

"My opionion is the only one that's right and everyone else just has to s*ck it the fuck up" mentality is ridiculous and you're one of many that contributed to this awful state this game has right now.

Oh and yes, WoW is dying. 2m active subscribers vs 12m it once had is kinda different. Suck that up.

Source please?

Do you think the only reason the game doesn't have 12m subs now is because of the design direction the game has taken? It would have no issues to have 12m subs in today's gaming industry if the game was up to your standards?

- - - Updated - - -

yep. we've had 10 years of mtx in WoW now we go and try another 10 years without them. that way everyone gets to have their turn.

No, they're here to stay, fortunately

[Clozer]

Back in the days the vanilla zones were still dogshit to many people, so having the choice to either cash out a small fee for a boost, or spend hours leveling - oh shit, what the fuck? It's a choice? Holy shit! That's crazy!

They're not changing the leveling experience from 1-58 as it was what, 15 years ago, back when developers tried to make their game better, right? They're giving an option to skip it. How the fuck is that a bad thing? That it costs a small fee? Again, optional. Holy crap! It's a choice?! Crazy!

I love how you say level boosts are good for the game, but behind a cash shop, and also a shit way for developers to be lazy. Probably the most inconsistent and moronic argument I've ever witnessed on this fansite.

Thanks, though. Was fun.

You have only a choice spending real moneys. You only have a solution to a ingame problem spending real moneys. That's the issue - indeed. You trying to justify it by saying "small fee" is kinda cute tho.

Activision's favorite. Gotta milk milk milk.

[Crimson Spears]

That doesn't mean it's not part of the game.

Kinda does. Sure they exist in the game but they have so little impact as to be completely irrelevant. Outside the rare consumable, raid drop, and crafting materials they may as well not exist. If you want classic you have the option to play classic now something that never existed the first time around.

[Ragedaug]

?

Mate, I guess you're not a numbers guy? The rate of joining and the rate of quitting = the sub count over time. Which we do know, roughly, over the last 10 years, has plummeted.

We have absolutely no idea of how many new players join and how many quit. We've only known how many players are playing at a specific date and time. That's how numbers work.

It's very possible that more players quit during WotLK than any other expansion. The game was newer and Blizz was doing a lot of marketing for WoW back then. It's completely plausible that more players joined AND quit during Wrath than are playing now.

[Sensa1]

I've played the game since the beginning and have only taken it less seriously at the end of BFA and into Shadowlands. Why? I just don't have the commitment to lead/organize a raid guild anymore, so the most I do in WoW is arena, M+ and I play Classic iterations of the game as well, with friends.

As somebody who has managed and played with hundreds of people in my 17 years of playing the game, the most roll over I've seen was in WoTLK and ironically Legion. Not a single one of them quit for reasons that are normally portrayed on these forums or made to be big evils, most of them simply quit because they got bored of the game or things in their life changing. Imaging playing a game that's been out for 17 years and people quitting every couple years and pretending that a big reason people don't quit is because they just want to play different games, or have different interests in life? Decisions Blizzard makes obviously causes people to quit, but these forums and this community as a whole turns a massive blind eye to the big elephant in the room, and that's just the fucking age of the game.

This isn't me saying that Blizzard hasn't made absolutely retarded decisions, but I've never had people I played with quit because of store mounts, boosts, or the fucking LFD queue. My friends I entered WoW with quit in WoTLK because they've been playing the same type of game for going on 6 years and that's a long fucking time to devote to a single game. They didn't quit because of those evils people talk about, or that the game changed, a lot of it's simply because they changed and MMOs were no longer for them. In some ways I'll ironically defend the boosts because if not for the boosts, I wouldn't even have those friends I played with in ages past come back to begin with, and this is certainly true with TBCC. Small sample size I know, but my enjoyment of TBCC was increased a lot as I had close to 10 people who never wanted to touch Classic actually play because they could actually play TBCC instead of drudging through 5 days of playtime leveling a character.

The video to me is incredibly eye rolling to be honest and just smells of jumping on a band wagon for quick views. Blizzard and the community is sort of shit TBH and it transcends both the live and classic versions of the game. You have so many people fixated on meta gaming an old game in the Classic version that all you see in a world with LFG is a fucking SEA of LF tank and to some degree healer in that chat channel. The only nice thing about Classic as a whole is you have two very distinct communities living inside of it, one group which is sweaty as fuck and loves all the old *quirks* in the older version of the game, and you have another part of the community that enjoys the slower pace but is also critical of how the sweaty people play the game. Luckily you can isolate yourself so much that neither group really has to play with each other at all.

The game is played differently in 2021 and it's pretty retarded that old boomers are trying to relive those old memories when the community was slobbering retards and the game had less delicate ways of trying to group people together (and I certainly fall into the WoW boomer category as well). Maybe I'm living under a rock and I can fully acknowledge that I'm wrong, but nothing that this video displays was ever a reason anyone has ever given me as to why the game was suddenly less fun. To me it's literally always been, bored of game I've been playing for years, life obligations, and can no longer commit to the portions of the game I actually have fun with. I've never once had somebody tell me nothing matters because people are running around on sparkle horses, boosts or the WoW token.

TLDR; Retards making comments or videos trying and inhaling lots of copium to explain why Blizzard = Evil, without acknowledging that a big part of it is probably that WoW is 17 years old and is probably the biggest reason the community has been on the decline for the better part of a decade. It's like people don't know what a product cycle is and are frantically trying to hold onto something they're ironically, hopelessly addicted too.

While you are right that people, especially those in your orbit, leave simply because they are either bored with the game or have changing life circumstances it's going to far to extrapolate your interactions to all of the millions of players that have quit the game. It's actually pretty arrogant to even remotely suggest you know why all those million of players left the game to be honest.

As for the "excuses" provided to you, for why people in your orbit left the game, you also make the assumption that all of these "virtual" friends were being completely honest with you. I started the game with a group from work in 2005. When I first got bored of the guild drama I used one of the excuses you listed because most of the guildees were my co-workers and in the interest of maintaining those work relationships I chose not to call certain things out. That's a fairly common occurrence.

Conversely, when people do cite reasons such as boosts / flying being gated etc as the reason for quitting many of them are actually bored of the game and such design decisions that they don't agree are enough to push them out of the game. But if it wasn't gated flying, for example, it would be something in the next patch because they are bored with the game and looking for an excuse to quit. And as I said at the beginning I do agree that boredom and life circumstance changes are big drivers of people quitting any game.

There is a large 3rd group of players that doesn't fit your theory at all, however, and I'm one of them. And that's the group that doesn't play retail at all but have come back to play Classic. The boredom / life circumstance excuse doesn't work in this scenario because it's hard to say you're "bored" with Retail and it's new content and/or don't have enough time to play the game when you then go and put in the same amount of time into a version of the game that a) you've played before and b) probably played before on multiple alts. The nostalgia angle doesn't really explain it either because most people know you can't relive old memories and it wears off pretty quick anyway.

This group of players really did quit the game because they didn't like the direction it has taken. I, for one, actually have more time on my hands now then I did in 2005/2006 and you couldn't pay me to play retail. I disagree with many of the changes in the game over time that have been well documented and discussed to death so won't repeat them here now with one exception. The whole borrowed power / mission table grind was the final nail in the coffin for Retail for me. After 3 expansions worth of that crap, on top of all the others things I don't like about Retail, the fact that it became apparent that Blizzard was going to continue in that direction was the final straw for me.

So I quit. No moaning about it just quit. And if you and others like Retail better that's fine with me...all the power to you.

But I did come back for Classic. It wasn't for the nostagilia either (only very few of my original guild mates returned). It was simply because, warts and all, Classic and TBC Classic are simply, in my opinion, better games than the Retail version of WoW (again, I could bore you with the ins and outs of that but they have all been discussed to death elsewhere.)

Wrath will probably be the last "Classic" version I play because while it still hewed to the original formula it was the expansion that introduced most of the future system I didn't like.

And when I'm done with Wrath Classic I will walk away, no bitching, no moaning. But if you are my guild leader at the time I'll just say I'm bored of the game.

[enigma77]

Blizzard can never receive enough hatred for the cash shop.

More fuel for the flames!

[Ragedaug]

The funny thing about all the QQ over boosts and the WoW Token is that they were always part of the game. Granted I'm guessing for Vanilla, but I know for a fact that they were in BC because I had RL friends buying WoW gold and having their alts leveled by 3rd party leveling services.

The only thing Blizzard did was making it safer. There was already a demand for it. Players were doing it. And the game was still doing fine. Now it's just safer to do instead of giving a 3rd party your account log in info, or buying gold from botters & account hackers.

[McNeil]

This actually hits me in the feels. So much of this video is accurate except for some small parts, like the one where a lot of people started to leave the game the moment MTX became a thing which I doubt is much of an actual reason for people to leave the game. When I ask my friends why they aren't playing WoW, the most popular answer is either because the game feels unrewarding or that the content is boring.

The part where you log in, meet other people and do content together was not something I experienced at first because the players that I joined WoW with where the ones I already met in WC3 so we played together. But when they weren't around I did occasionaly meet other players and hanged around for a bit. I still connect with most of my WC3 friends but they haven't played WoW in ages. The times we had together playing WoW for the first time is what I miss the most.

[Kralljin]

Granted I'm guessing for Vanilla, but I know for a fact that they were in BC because I had RL friends buying WoW gold and having their alts leveled by 3rd party leveling services.

So you're talking about people that should've been banned?

The only thing Blizzard did was making it safer. There was already a demand for it. Players were doing it. And the game was still doing fine. Now it's just safer to do instead of giving a 3rd party your account log in info, or buying gold from botters & account hackers.

I find it hilarious to humor the concept of comprimising the game because some people are irresponsible with their data.

What's next, Blizzard themselves should provide bots so people do not feel inclined to support bot developers?

[Orby]

As someone who quit for the first time in over 15 years this does kind hit the feels...

Anyway the usual Blizzard Cops are out in action shooting first and not asking questions.

....aaaand it ends with more boost/store mount whining, lmao. Inaccurate whining too, since it has "skip to the ending".....leveling 1 character to 58 isn't skipping to the ending.

People will just forever be salty about optional vanity items, won't they?

Yes, i felt the patheticness of even carbot riding the hate train for the irrelevent TBC boost for views.

He even puts in the video that the boost gets you to max level... The boost has never gotten you to max level. (Just before a new expansion drops, technically it is, but I wouldn't really call that max level speaking the expansion is literally over)

- - - Updated - - -



Nah it's no where near his best objectively.
And again negativity sells, negative content pulls in a lot, nearly double that of positive, for everything not just wow.

Or maybe he is genuine about his disappointment (its a novel concept I know). Carbot has made nothing but positive videos in the past. Yes you can defend the game, yes you can still like it when no one else will. But don't think you can go around spreading inflammatory comments that he is just being negative to get views. Like the guy hasnt had a problem getting views. His videos are very popular he doesn't need to jump on any 'hate train'

The guy makes one negative video and you are jumping on the company line of defence. Sometimes negativity can be a genuine emotion, this video wasnt even approached negatively from a place of anger, more a place or sadness of feeling on what the game has become (listen to the tone). It's a genuine emotion to be concerned and let down by a game you feel isn't going in the direction you want it too especially when you have played for 15 years and realise this game isnt for you anymore. At least try and see why people are upset or feel let down by the current state of WoW, it's not all 'negative to be negative' and if you feel otherwise then you are a bigger problem. ITs not about 'hating on WoW'. Although for a lot of people I am sure it is there are those out there, but its not fair to lump them in the same group whenever you see anyone be critical about your precious game.

The only people jumping on any train are the WoW defence force whenever someone says or does one thing negatively about this game. I have been that position of this attitude I have defended this game, (especially its lore) so much on these forums but the moment I say anything negative people like you guys show up to come to the games defence and paint me as a hater. I recently unsubbed from WoW for the first time in my 15+ years this January, now with me I am just moving on I aint gonna complain I still like WoW, but if I had a platform like Carbot you damn as well bet I'd probably make an animation about it to express this, animation is an artform, and as an animation graduate myself

We WoW players (who still play the game) need to stop painting everything with the same brush... good god. You enjoy the game thats good, you are free to express how much you love the game but I think its a bit disingenuous to be so volatile to people who feel otherwise. Especially those that have never said same anything negative before hand.

[Ragedaug]

So you're talking about people that should've been banned?

Yes, that's exactly who I'm talking about.

I find it hilarious to humor the concept of comprimising the game because some people are irresponsible with their data.

What's next, Blizzard themselves should provide bots so people do not feel inclined to support bot developers?

No, the idea is getting rid of bots. Almost all the people illegally selling WoW gold were doing it by either using bots or hacking player accounts or both. You reduce the number of bots by reducing the profitability of them.

[Tojara]

While you are right that people, especially those in your orbit, leave simply because they are either bored with the game or have changing life circumstances it's going to far to extrapolate your interactions to all of the millions of players that have quit the game. It's actually pretty arrogant to even remotely suggest you know why all those million of players left the game to be honest.

As for the "excuses" provided to you, for why people in your orbit left the game, you also make the assumption that all of these "virtual" friends were being completely honest with you. I started the game with a group from work in 2005. When I first got bored of the guild drama I used one of the excuses you listed because most of the guildees were my co-workers and in the interest of maintaining those work relationships I chose not to call certain things out. That's a fairly common occurrence.

Conversely, when people do cite reasons such as boosts / flying being gated etc as the reason for quitting many of them are actually bored of the game and such design decisions that they don't agree are enough to push them out of the game. But if it wasn't gated flying, for example, it would be something in the next patch because they are bored with the game and looking for an excuse to quit. And as I said at the beginning I do agree that boredom and life circumstance changes are big drivers of people quitting any game.

There is a large 3rd group of players that doesn't fit your theory at all, however, and I'm one of them. And that's the group that doesn't play retail at all but have come back to play Classic. The boredom / life circumstance excuse doesn't work in this scenario because it's hard to say you're "bored" with Retail and it's new content and/or don't have enough time to play the game when you then go and put in the same amount of time into a version of the game that a) you've played before and b) probably played before on multiple alts. The nostalgia angle doesn't really explain it either because most people know you can't relive old memories and it wears off pretty quick anyway.

This group of players really did quit the game because they didn't like the direction it has taken. I, for one, actually have more time on my hands now then I did in 2005/2006 and you couldn't pay me to play retail. I disagree with many of the changes in the game over time that have been well documented and discussed to death so won't repeat them here now with one exception. The whole borrowed power / mission table grind was the final nail in the coffin for Retail for me. After 3 expansions worth of that crap, on top of all the others things I don't like about Retail, the fact that it became apparent that Blizzard was going to continue in that direction was the final straw for me.

So I quit. No moaning about it just quit. And if you and others like Retail better that's fine with me...all the power to you.

But I did come back for Classic. It wasn't for the nostagilia either (only very few of my original guild mates returned). It was simply because, warts and all, Classic and TBC Classic are simply, in my opinion, better games than the Retail version of WoW (again, I could bore you with the ins and outs of that but they have all been discussed to death elsewhere.)

Wrath will probably be the last "Classic" version I play because while it still hewed to the original formula it was the expansion that introduced most of the future system I didn't like.

And when I'm done with Wrath Classic I will walk away, no bitching, no moaning. But if you are my guild leader at the time I'll just say I'm bored of the game.

A lot of my friends were RL friends. Like 10 of them played, some quit during OG Vanilla, some in TBC and basically all of them quit a bit through WoTLK. So I have it on fairly good word that they didn't quit because of reasons videos like this one were sort of implying.

I don't really keep in touch with everybody I've played with but I've never made a concentrated effort to remove people off my friends list either, except for those during the recruitment process for raiding, or those that didn't pan out long term with my then guilds desires. While I have varying degrees of 'closeness' to the people I associated with over the years, a lot of those virtual friends became real friends and I've hung out with them at both Blizzcon, let alone stayed in some of their homes over the years. Lots of them still play, others pop in at the start of each expansion and quit soon after. Most are ex-raiders that don't have the time to raid, play for short leveling experience, and gear up a bit before coming back for the next .1 patch, or expansion. Some take far longer to come back than others.

I'm not really claiming that I know exactly the reasons as to why everyone left, but I am confident enough to state that most people left the game because their lives changed and the games old. There are numerous reasons as to why people leave, absolutely, but I think a lot of people don't like to admit regardless of what Blizzard has done, this game was going to shed people at some point simply because it's an old game (older than some people who even frequent these forums). I'm not trying to make excuses for Blizzard or defend them, I just think it's pretty apparent reality that no matter what they do with an MMO, it's going to dwindle with time (and this goes hand in hand with most product cycles of any product ever released).

As I stated previously, there were two periods of the game where I saw drop off in people I played with. One being WoTLK (lots of old guard leaving because it was 6 years in, and the Lich King storyline was the only solution they really cared about), and then Legion. Legion despite having loads of content at the start turned away a lot of the people I played with (and hence returned) because legendary items acquisition at the start of Legion was very grindy, and the apparent painting on the wall with AP led to a lot of burn out. Which is funny, because a lot of people herald Legion as a return to form and that WoD was bad with it's raid logging nature. So yeah, basically the only real direction changing event that I ever heard in my years of WoW from people I played with, was basically tied to "necessary grinds" at the start of Legion.

While I didn't cover everything, the third group of people you cited can sort of be explained because I have plenty of people that fit that criteria as well. They quit the live version of the game at various times because they couldn't keep up with the raiding, but returned to the Classic version of the game because of nostalgia and familiarity. Going back to something you already know is a lot easier of a transition than trying something that sort of hard resets every two years. Also, a big reason for the return of players like this is that the content is relatively easy, it can feel accomplishing (because there's only one real difficulty as of the time), and those raiding schedules I talked about earlier don't really have to be schedules in Classic.

When you raid in a game that's ever changing there's a sort of pressure to keep up with your class (that keeps changing) all the while doing new content. Most retail raiding is schedule based and you have to be reliable. I'm not saying that there aren't guilds out there in Classic that adhere to a strict schedule, but a lot of Classic guilds on the servers I play on only raid a single day week, have decent overflow and it's not that big of a deal if you aren't super reliable. Adhering to a single day a week schedule is far more common place in Classic WoW compared to live and it's not even that big of a deal if you don't show because the content is still pretty easy. This isn't really a knock against retail, it's more that people can find a place in Classic WoW (or games they've played before) because scheduling is far more relaxed, or in a lot of guilds minds, pretty flexible.

So it's not really a surprise to me that there's a group of people who "prefer" the older version of the game. All of the information is there for you if you want it and nothing is really unknown. You know exactly what type of game you're getting into and the content is easy and somewhat flexible. If the content was brutally hard (like it was to people playing 15-17 years ago) and that difficulty somehow magically manifested itself this many years later (which wouldn't be possible anyway), I doubt that many people would be as willing to give it a go. Basically, WoW Classic is a victory lap for a lot of people and regardless of what position you were in 15 years ago (or whatever) it's mostly a feel good moment where everybody wins, because the bar is pretty low for people to get over it if they want. This isn't a bad thing either, games don't need to be hard to be fun, but the game was hard that many years ago (for various reasons).

My point earlier about raiding 2 days within 3 hour blocks still isn't something everybody can do, let alone adhere too. Regardless of which era you played the game in (from 2004-2021) if you want to raid in a game that keeps changing, you sort of have to be reliable. The charm of Classic is the familiarity, it's difficulty and how easy it is to schedule everything, despite certain aspects of it being just as grindy (if not more) than the modern version of the game. When people in my Classic guild couldn't make raids we didn't remove them from the guild, or look actively to replace them, we would just pug people or ask those from other guilds to fill in. On live people keep fairly strict rosters and if you know you're going to have spotty attendance for a long time, you cut ties looking for something else, or you take the tier off.

[Prag]

Would this forum even exist if we didn’t try to convince other people the game is dying/issuing its own death sentence while we actively play a 14 year old re-release for a second time? And, in such volume, that modern load balancing tech had to be added?

[Rinnegan2]

we've had 10 years of mtx in WoW now we go and try another 10 years without them. that way everyone gets to have their turn.

No, they're here to stay, fortunately

As I mentioned before: we don't discuss something that's subjective. there is nothing to discuss. 5% are pro mtx, 45% are indifferent and the other 50% are against them. we've had mtx for the past 10 years - the 5% were majorly happy - and now we make the 50% of players happy that have left over the years.
it's really that simple.

[Ragedaug]

we've had 10 years of mtx in WoW now we go and try another 10 years without them. that way everyone gets to have their turn.

As I mentioned before: we don't discuss something that's subjective. there is nothing to discuss. 5% are pro mtx, 45% are indifferent and the other 50% are against them. we've had mtx for the past 10 years - the 5% were majorly happy - and now we make the 50% of players happy that have left over the years.
it's really that simple.

What percentage of statistics do they say are made up?

[Tommi]

What percentage of statistics do they say are made up?

4 banana% i believe