Sanctum of Domination Race to World First

[Makabreska]

Is this some new take on "Vanilla raids were harder"? Because WotLK Classic raids wont get destroyed by current, "inferior" players, eh?

[Bakis]

Not about teams per say but I hope BLZ stay away of stupid shit like a boss being mathematically impossible and go "Oh.." this time messing up the WF.

[Baleful]

"HOW DARE YOU HAVE AN OPINION THAT IS NOT EXACTLY LIKE MINE SO THEREFORE YOU MUST BE TROLLING!!11!1!1!".
Get over it: it doesn't even makes sense what you say: you literally imply that MILLIONS of players can't have more skill.
What exactly happened after that time that made humanity have more skill in a pool of 1mil players vs 10mil?

Well there was trillions of human beigns running 100 metres yet Usain Bolt beat them all, and i'm sure it will be beaten in time. It's called experience, insights, knowledge, preparation... things that weren't available back in WotLK. Hell, people back then THEORIZED the amount of armor the boss had to theorize if arpen builds were viable, we know every value possible of every boss weeks before they are available, and the exact amount of DPS a class is able to do in a given time with a perfect rotation within a 0.05% margin of error. It's just a comparison between a horse carriage and a Buggati Veyron ¿Aren't the horses doing as much as they are capable of? Of course, but they just don't have the tools to compete.

[muto]

I’m just hoping the raid doesn’t get cleared in two weeks again. Hopefully Sylvanas is a boss they wipe to for a month at least.

[Usernameforforums]

So the US guild <LIMIT> on the Illidan server is LITERALLY CHEATING. The guild leader (https://www.twitch.tv/limit_maximum) is currently sitting but will be screen sharing someone who is in during the fight and raid leading. Essentially they have 21 PLAYERS IN THE FIGHT. I Hope Blizzard will do something to stop this. Method is only using 20 players WHICH IS THE RULES.

I really hope a cheating guild doesn't win. Anyone else agree with me?

[infracted for trolling]

So a coach is a cheater in football, basketball, and other sports?

[munkeyinorbit]

Limit/echo/pieces go for top 3 and fatsharkyes usually casually gets 4 or 5. Method might be ready to race again, they got 5th last tier so it's possible we might actually have a decent race to world first for once, can't remember the last time 4-5 guilds were actually able to compete for 1st, I think Cata maybe. Then it switched to just 1 guild for about 6 years, then 2.

This lie is repeated every patch. There is only one guild and it's theirs to lose.

[Wangming]

I’m just hoping the raid doesn’t get cleared in two weeks again. Hopefully Sylvanas is a boss they wipe to for a month at least.

Depends on the bugs, LOL. Method and Limit are going in to beta test.

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Not about teams per say but I hope BLZ stay away of stupid shit like a boss being mathematically impossible and go "Oh.." this time messing up the WF.

Isn't that the norm since C'Thun?

[Gorsameth]

I’m just hoping the raid doesn’t get cleared in two weeks again. Hopefully Sylvanas is a boss they wipe to for a month at least.

the only bosses that survive more then 2 weeks have limited attempts or are bugged.

Seriously, any boss that legit lasts more then 2 weeks against world first guilds would be utterly utterly overtuned for everyone else.

[Barzotti]

I’m just hoping the raid doesn’t get cleared in two weeks again. Hopefully Sylvanas is a boss they wipe to for a month at least.

A two weeks race is fine imho (and longer than most of the races usually); if the best guilds in the world with an infinity of tools available and an infinite preparation need one month of 15 hours of raiding every day to kill the boss, something is seriously wrong in terms of balance.

[munkeyinorbit]

Well there was trillions of human beigns running 100 metres yet Usain Bolt beat them all, and i'm sure it will be beaten in time. It's called experience, insights, knowledge, preparation... things that weren't available back in WotLK. Hell, people back then THEORIZED the amount of armor the boss had to theorize if arpen builds were viable, we know every value possible of every boss weeks before they are available, and the exact amount of DPS a class is able to do in a given time with a perfect rotation within a 0.05% margin of error. It's just a comparison between a horse carriage and a Buggati Veyron ¿Aren't the horses doing as much as they are capable of? Of course, but they just don't have the tools to compete.

It's also been theories that prehistoric man could do 100m in 10 sec flat and leave marathoners in their wake

[antelope591]

I’m just hoping the raid doesn’t get cleared in two weeks again. Hopefully Sylvanas is a boss they wipe to for a month at least.

Jesus were like 50 tiers in and people are still going on with this type of ignorance lmao....if a fight takes Limit more than 1 week its not an encounter possible for 99% of guilds, its that simple. You think blizz designs a raid for 2 guilds only?

[arkanon]

Jesus were like 50 tiers in and people are still going on with this type of ignorance lmao....if a fight takes Limit more than 1 week its not an encounter possible for 99% of guilds, its that simple. You think blizz designs a raid for 2 guilds only?

Although I do agree with what you are TRYING to say, you ignore the fact that these top guilds have nowhere near the ilvl of those coming months later to kill it, as these guilds will be progressing and re-killing the earlier bosses for weeks on end before attempting the final bosses. Using Limit as an example, compare their average ilvl on their first kill, to a guild that gets the world 100th kill, and there will be a massive difference.

It is something Blizzard have spoken about at length though, trying to make the content challenging enough for these top guilds, while still making it manageable for the "average" mythic guild. Obviously they could extend the fights as long as they wanted - they absolutely COULD make the fights harder - they COULD make it so highly tuned that even Limit have to spend weeks reclearing the raid to gear up their team, but then the average mythic guild wouldnt stand a chance even months later. They COULD add a decay feature, where it naturally decreases in difficulty over time, but I dont think many would like that.

They are also in a bit of a pickle - if they over tune it, and Limit is half way through and they decide nerfs are needed, it can obviously have a massive impact on the "race", and they have shown in the past that outside of "bug fixes", they are extremely reluctant to do any nerfs / buffs until the "race" is over.

[Barzotti]

Although I do agree with what you are TRYING to say, you ignore the fact that these top guilds have nowhere near the ilvl of those coming months later to kill it, as these guilds will be progressing and re-killing the earlier bosses for weeks on end before attempting the final bosses. Using Limit as an example, compare their average ilvl on their first kill, to a guild that gets the world 100th kill, and there will be a massive difference.

Limit had an average ilvl of 220 when they claimed Denathrius world first; the 100th guild had an average ilvl of 223. 3 ilvl is not a massive difference.

[antelope591]

Although I do agree with what you are TRYING to say, you ignore the fact that these top guilds have nowhere near the ilvl of those coming months later to kill it, as these guilds will be progressing and re-killing the earlier bosses for weeks on end before attempting the final bosses. Using Limit as an example, compare their average ilvl on their first kill, to a guild that gets the world 100th kill, and there will be a massive difference.

It is something Blizzard have spoken about at length though, trying to make the content challenging enough for these top guilds, while still making it manageable for the "average" mythic guild. Obviously they could extend the fights as long as they wanted - they absolutely COULD make the fights harder - they COULD make it so highly tuned that even Limit have to spend weeks reclearing the raid to gear up their team, but then the average mythic guild wouldnt stand a chance even months later. They COULD add a decay feature, where it naturally decreases in difficulty over time, but I dont think many would like that.

They are also in a bit of a pickle - if they over tune it, and Limit is half way through and they decide nerfs are needed, it can obviously have a massive impact on the "race", and they have shown in the past that outside of "bug fixes", they are extremely reluctant to do any nerfs / buffs until the "race" is over.

See, in your very first sentence you already went wrong. Limit is already near the very top of the gear curve when they first see these encounters due to their boe purchases and split runs. The vast majority of guilds took months to get to the gear levels Limit was going into the fights at in the very first week. Secondly, even if the average guild is going into it with around 5 ilvls higher it hardly makes up for the combination of 20 of the best players in the world + outside coaching.

[deenman]

This meme so soon? We start memeing at around page 5, usually.

wow wow wow,calm down there buddy,lets not get crazy,its always been the literal second or first reply

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Can we start the memes early this time?

I'll save you guys about 100 pages:



But wait, we can go even deeper:



No, but really... kind of hoping EU wins this time. An Echo doesn't always need to come in second. :^)

no no no,let usa win every damn time,maybe blizzard will finnaly grow a pair and adress this stupidity

[Low Hanging Fruit]

Oh it's this time of year again where people base their personal and continental identity on a raid in World of Warcraft. Cannot wait to see what kind of drama the community will manage to drum up over this on this go around. That is always what I find funny about this. The people actually competing and doing the race are pretty cool with each other and often very friendly to the process (not to say some beefs do not exist) while the community surrounding it is full of extremely sensitive and often damage people arguing over things no one really cares about.

Good luck to the racers. Anyone that isn't overly invested grab your popcorn because their are going to be some heads popping off in here soon enough.

[Biomega]

Damn all those people got really hurt hearing that after killing Yogg'Saron 0 keepers + Algalon the Observer world fist: the skill in the game got a considerable hit.
No reason to be hurt: during WotLK the game was at its ABSOLUTE PEAK of number of players so obviously it had also collected the most talent.

And people also had over 10 YEARS less collective experience. Talent is one thing, but supporting talent with experience, knowledge, and technology massively increases performance.

People like to tout Y+0 as some sort of amazing achievement, but the reality is that most people quickly stopped trying to even attempt it because it was considered impossible - that was a mistake, but it didn't mean the people who succeeded were somehow magically more skilled than everyone else; they just kept trying when everyone else wasn't. Even Y+0 is miles away in difficulty from modern mythic design. In fact it's mostly trivial now, considering the increased complexity of fight mechanics over the past decade+.

If you seriously believe that old TBC/WotLK era raiding can hold a candle to modern fights, you're suffering from severe nostalgia goggles; and/or you haven't actually raided at a competitive level in either era, and don't comprehend the actual difficulty of those raids.

There were some old raids that were more ENJOYABLE than modern ones, to be sure (Ulduar comes to mind), but there is absolutely no question that modern mythic is the hardest WoW has ever been.

[Jdance]

does method still have that one creepy josh guy who had some (hefty) allegations against him because of that one stream where he held a knife or w.e.? definitely not rooting for method

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Anyways, as Preheat is my favorite player I will likely be rooting for <Limit> this tier.

[Barzotti]

does method still have that one creepy josh guy who had some (hefty) allegations against him because of that one stream where he held a knife or w.e.? definitely not rooting for method

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Anyways, as Preheat is my favorite player I will likely be rooting for <Limit> this tier.

No, Josh disappeared from the scene since the incident. His last tweet is more than one year old.

And Preheat isn't raiding with Limit anymore.

[OokOok]

does method still have that one creepy josh guy who had some (hefty) allegations against him because of that one stream where he held a knife or w.e.? definitely not rooting for method

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Anyways, as Preheat is my favorite player I will likely be rooting for <Limit> this tier.

considering Josh admitted to it and method admitted to knowing that it happened, It's safe to not call it "allegations" when it's just facts at this point. Josh sexually assaulted a girl and treated her like shit on stream, method knew and hid it cause they wanted his heals.