This current streamers trend to exit wow is obviously partly hypocritical.

[Revamp Man]

we live in a world where people would rather:
watch people game than actually game
watch pornography rather than go get laid
overpay for fastfood delivery than get off their asses. then complain about how expensive everything is...

i dont get it

welcome to the last 50 years lol

[Skeegee]

They will be back and the video about their return to wow will be made for the clicks and views. Can't wait to see those fake clown tears.

[Tenjen]

Wait a minute.

Waaaait a minute.

A company that exists to make money... Does things to make money?

What is this madness of which you speak?

This was such a shallow point 5 years ago. People keep using it to defend blizzard.

When people talk about "making money" in that context, they mean companies who over-priotize profit to a poisonous degree that it burns out their IPs, workers and ruins the creative development process, it is counter intuitive. Cutting corners and sacrificing depth. Any company can take on the familiar strategy for huge profits but it is super short term and is why EA goes through not just IPs but entire game companies like they're free sample mini cocktails.

When you prioritize profit over all else, like monetizing every aspect of game design to generate profit (such as designing progression, stats, asethetics, MMR, items, etc to incentise use of MTX) instead of prioritizing the quality and depth of those game design aspects to MAKE a profit of their own merit, you are going to destroy your product in the mid to long term. It turns everything into a financial transaction without depth.

The thought process during development between the two is vastly different when you prioritize everything directly for profit vs prioritize quality to make that profit.

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The fact that ff14 doesn't do anything "too new" is what makes it good. They kept the game simple without all of the system bloat that wow has. They just deliver solid content in a consistent schedule instead of wasting time developing sharts of domination.

Thing is people are so indoctrinated by the WoW mindset after having played it so long that they cant see past it and are restricted to that narrow point of view. They are blind to the aspects of a different system that offers something different or has a completely different outlook and approach beyond what the former offered and focused on. Its comparable to a different cultural perspective, to a degree atleast.

Platanoic cave comparison's aside, I especially see this in all the posts saying hilarious stuff like "they'll come back to wow when they realize theres barely anything to do and everything is easy".

Like first of all if anyone wants tough, theres Savage Raiding for trials, raids and alliances which includes the raids and bosses from previous expansions. There's also Ilvl sync if you want to go that way so you get to experience things close to how they were. There is SO MUCH to scratch that itch.

Beyond raiding theres just so much to do from Relics on one end to the Golden Saucer on the other with everything else inbetween. The biggest culture shock WoW players get is when they realize old systems and content in FFXIV do not get discarded and removed. They are either carried forward or retained (even improved or changed with more relaxed restrictions). I wont make this post even longer by writing about all the rest but I feel a lot of wow players are blind to most of them because they're there FOR FUN. FFXIV offers so much for both raiding and stuff outside it, for both "serious" gaming and just for FUN. something forgotten in all the bitterness of their previous experiences.

All that without even bringing up the fact its a properly numbered Final Fantasy game and is thus story focused, which is a big part of the content and can't be so casually dismissed given how extensive and rich it is (not just the main story line but the side content from Relics to raids too). Creating that level of depth forms an emotional attachment to the game and leaves others feeling empty by comparison. When you build a meaningful positive mental association, its hard to let go of it.

[Accendor]

Sorry, but here you are wrong: many people watch some streamer because of the streamer, not because of the game.

Yes, many do. And many don't.
If you bet you livelihood on it you better be really, really damn sure, and many of those streamers can not be sure.
Don't believe me? Watch a few of Preachs videos, he talks about exactly this issue and that he is doing it either way. And he is one of the streamers that had a huge advantage, because he was already streaming other stuff before.

[john45]

great thread!

[Cthulhu 2020]

Other games are just as greedy as Blizzard and Final Fantasy is just as greedy or greedier because of the expanded cash shop.

Blizzard's long history of sucking their players of their cash, real money auction house, loot boxes, WoW token, is far far far far greedier than a bunch of old event items nobody buys. Period. Your entire argument relies on comparing the two cash shops in a vacuum with no other factors. If we're talking about which company is greedier, ignoring tons of instances of blatant greed and laser focusing on one single comparison is laughable.

You must be triggered because you made a longer post than me. That's your logic, not mine. But that's also called an ad hominem, which further shows just how wrong you are. The mere fact that you have been personally attacking me this whole time, rather than addressing the substances of my arguments shows that you are the one in some kind of emotional duress and that you are incapable of defending your point when presented with factual counters.

[rhorle]

If we're talking about which company is greedier, ignoring tons of instances of blatant greed and laser focusing on one single comparison is laughable.

You are not even talking about company versus company though. You are comparing Blizzard to Final Fantasy 14. You keep stacking the deck in order to complain. Square as a company has done greedy things that you don't list and you ignore. Weird right? Because it isn't about who is greedier or not. It is about bashing Blizzard and defending your "new love".

It was never stated that Blizzard, or WoW, is not greedy. It was stated that if WoW is greedy because of a cash shop then its competitors have to be equally greedy or greedier then WoW because of their expanded cash shops. But people always find ways to make other games acceptable while trashing WoW. But someone talked bad about your new love so you are charging into to defend it at all costs. Lol.

[Nak88]

All the streamers I used to watch from time to time are gone.

Asmongold is gone, he is playing FF
Towellie, he gone, playing random MMOs no one cares
Esfand, gone. Playing Madden and some random games.
The two top streamers in my country, gone.
Venruki, essentially gone.

The only streamers who haven't jumped ship yet are the Classic/TBC streamers: Jokerd, Payo, Staysafe are still playing TBC.

[crusadernero]

Blizzard's long history of sucking their players of their cash, real money auction house, loot boxes, WoW token, is far far far far greedier than a bunch of old event items nobody buys. Period. Your entire argument relies on comparing the two cash shops in a vacuum with no other factors. If we're talking about which company is greedier, ignoring tons of instances of blatant greed and laser focusing on one single comparison is laughable.

You must be triggered because you made a longer post than me. That's your logic, not mine. But that's also called an ad hominem, which further shows just how wrong you are. The mere fact that you have been personally attacking me this whole time, rather than addressing the substances of my arguments shows that you are the one in some kind of emotional duress and that you are incapable of defending your point when presented with factual counters.

So Square is greedy, but Blizzard is more greedy? Therefore, Square is better? Cash shops is a plague within gaming and they are all greedy. Can understand why they do it from a business point of view, cause for some reason people throw money at the digital pixels.

Sadly its here to stay cause most gamers play these games anyway and the companies make easy money without making the game better.

Dunno how the cash shop works in FF, but atleast in wow its not throw in your face. That happens in ESO and I hate it.

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All the streamers I used to watch from time to time are gone.

Asmongold is gone, he is playing FF
Towellie, he gone, playing random MMOs no one cares
Esfand, gone. Playing Madden and some random games.
The two top streamers in my country, gone.
Venruki, essentially gone.

The only streamers who haven't jumped ship yet are the Classic/TBC streamers: Jokerd, Payo, Staysafe are still playing TBC.

Staysafe only logs into BC for the raids. He now mostly plays GW2.

Give it some time, sooner or later the retail wow streamers will be back - when new content arrives.

[Nak88]

Give it some time, sooner or later the retail wow streamers will be back - when new content arrives.

Mate, 9.1 came 1 month and a half ago and these guys didn't even try the new content. What makes you think they will eventually come back during this expansion?

[crusadernero]

we live in a world where people would rather:
watch people game than actually game
watch pornography rather than go get laid
overpay for fastfood delivery than get off their asses. then complain about how expensive everything is...

i dont get it

True! I never watched a streamer because of the game they play, unless I want to find out more about X/Y game before buying it. Streamers I watch is because of the streamer, not the game they play. If they play games im planning to play myself, I make sure to experience the games before watching them play it.

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Mate, 9.1 came 1 month and a half ago and these guys didn't even try the new content. What makes you think they will eventually come back during this expansion?

Probably for 9.2, if it ships with decent enough content. At the very least, they are back for 10.0.

Whatever MMORPG they play, they all reach the stage were theres "nothing to do" soon enough, cause they stream almost everyday for 8+ hours a day. Luckily for these streamers they have FF to fall back on, random MMORPGS to test out and soon enough New World launches. Non of which are going to keep them playing said games exclusivly like they have with wow.

[kiramon]

There is a seed of truth in that, but it's also not the whole picture. Those who quit were already either on the verge of quitting, or fed up with the game for a long time. So their quitting the game now is almost unrelated to the current happenings, or at best, they consider the court case a final straw.

I'm sure there are some, but I for one do not believe a single streamer who quit wow/blizzard games because of their court case, or who were at all influenced because of the case. All drama to stir up Content. That's what they call it, right? Content? Like when they start fights with viewers or have stupid arguments? Content. It's like Jerry Springer-lite.

[crusadernero]

I'm sure there are some, but I for one do not believe a single streamer who quit wow/blizzard games because of their court case, or who were at all influenced because of the case. All drama to stir up Content. That's what they call it, right? Content? Like when they start fights with viewers or have stupid arguments? Content. It's like Jerry Springer-lite.

Its all about content. Its much easier to talk trash about wow than say good things. Im sure that no matter what Blizzard does at this point, no one will say "YEAH this looks awesome!".

And in any case, they can return at any time to play the game. Still while trashtalking it ofc.

[Kralljin]

I'm sure there are some, but I for one do not believe a single streamer who quit wow/blizzard games because of their court case, or who were at all influenced because of the case. All drama to stir up Content. That's what they call it, right? Content? Like when they start fights with viewers or have stupid arguments? Content. It's like Jerry Springer-lite.

And i don't recall anyone who solely claimed they're switching games because of the lawsuit, the silver lining was usually: The game sucks and that's the last straw.

In this rather superficial analysis you have to keep in mind that not every streamer / content creator can just magically switch over to a new game and expect the same revenue, that's not it works, when people watch a given person based on their WoW content, they're not necessarily going to watch them for another game.
This whole "I quit WoW" makes for a good last hurra, but unless you're a variety streamer, it's damn stupid move from a business perspective, because when you go back to WoW after your non WoW related content received barely any views, you just look like an idiot.

It's like telling your boss to suck a dick when you quit your job, might feel good right now and earn you a lot of respect with your (former) colleagues, but you're completely fucked when you have to go back because you can't get a job elsewhere.

I'm not presenting content creators as saints, but the fact that that many are either quitting WoW entirely or branching out showcases that the audience interested in WoW content is shrinking, which naturally reflects poorly on the health of the game.

[Vorkreist]

WoW would be in a much worse state than it's in right now if Blizzard started listening to streamers.

Nah even the janitors would have done a better job when it comes to design direction and systems.

[Soon-TM]

design direction and systems.

Systemlands is annoying enough, but is actually there a design direction? Because BfA and especially SL feel quite rudderless tbh.

[T-34]

As we speak WoW has 38 thousand viewers and FFXIV has 23,5 thousand, but Asmongold isn't online yet.
Asmongold had an average of 85 thousand!!!! viewers in July.

When we talk WoW or FFXIV there is Asmon who is light-years ahead of everybody else. Actually Asmon has grown in to being on the biggest game streamers, if not the biggest.

What truly strikes me about all this is how abysmally bad Blizzard is at PR and communication. Maybe it is me as a Northern European, but everything from Blizzard, when they rarely communicate, seems so fake and artificial to me.

[RoKPaNda]

Nah even the janitors would have done a better job when it comes to design direction and systems.

Well yeah janitors are probably more qualified than streamers so no surprise there.

[odamienskii]

There is a seed of truth in that, but it's also not the whole picture. Those who quit were already either on the verge of quitting, or fed up with the game for a long time. So their quitting the game now is almost unrelated to the current happenings, or at best, they consider the court case a final straw.

If we look at content creators / streamers who quit:

Preach - didn't really enjoy the game for months (if not years now). Barely played for the last months and if he did it was just PTR. Also, he's not actually quitting wow content, because he continues to release his most viewed wow-related series' such as Drama Time, Legacy and one of the newer ones. He basically just stops talking about new stuff in the game, which was just a small part of this channel anyway.

Mad Season - didn't make main wow content for years. Mostly talked about the old days and wow classic (now basically dead). His quitting was also unrelated to the current drama.

Stooppzz - niche guy who only did and talked about pvp. If pvp is your main thing in WoW, you're not gonna last too long anyway.

There was also some classic-based streamer that quit, and considering that classic is pretty much dead (both classic era and tbc), it doesn't really change much for him to 'officially quit'.

Classic is dead? since when? you go to stormwind at 5am on classic there is 30/40 people around trade go to oribos there is maybe 4/5

[Empower]

You are not even talking about company versus company though. You are comparing Blizzard to Final Fantasy 14. You keep stacking the deck in order to complain. Square as a company has done greedy things that you don't list and you ignore. Weird right? Because it isn't about who is greedier or not. It is about bashing Blizzard and defending your "new love".

It was never stated that Blizzard, or WoW, is not greedy. It was stated that if WoW is greedy because of a cash shop then its competitors have to be equally greedy or greedier then WoW because of their expanded cash shops. But people always find ways to make other games acceptable while trashing WoW. But someone talked bad about your new love so you are charging into to defend it at all costs. Lol.

What broke the camel's back for me was the real money trading blizzard endorsed and supports in game. You can claim it's against the tos but until lfg and trade chat isn't wall upon walls of carry ads I just don't care.

Blizzard broke the sacred rule. The one that poisons and kills all who do. They sold power.

You can try to deflect around that pointing out some small server from way back when selling runs for a fraction of the price to an extremely limited number of clients but it's simply not the same thing.

Also blizzard has admitted to selling reforged in a broken state and unlike square enix they didn't give away the product for free after...