Why the negative response to all the positive changes in 9.1.5

[LedZeppelin]

Because people have moved the goal posts. First it was "Blizzard should make these changes". Now that Blizzard is making those changes, its now "Blizzard should have made those changes sooner" or even worse, "We shouldnt have to tell blizzard how to fix their game"

[Grimalkin of Old]

What new management?

[Aphrel]

1. Because its 1 year too late.

2. And even know they still defend the covenants not being swappable be4 with this idiotic statement.

"When it comes to the limitations on Covenant-switching, millions of players experienced Shadowlands for the first time through the lens of their Covenant of choice, and that would have not been possible had the choice carried less weight from the outset."

And still, the players did make a meaningful choice. And then blizzard were the ones who then went and decided to make our choice meaningless by retuning everything in the patch, forcing players to make another choice... Its like they are intentionally fucking with us.

- - - Updated - - -

Because as most people that have voiced the negative sentiments pointed out, that this has become the MO of the devs since Legion.

(1) Introduce a system with obvious flaws / drawbacks
(2) Disagree with feedback given during Beta
(3) Reiterate after Launch that you disagree with it
(4) Implement the suggested changes months after launch

People want functional systems with .0, not .3, .2 or even .1.5.

and add to that, even now they still defend their flawed system even as they are changing it.

[Dracullus]

I'm pretty certain Ion is considering moving out on his own soon(tm).

You're pretty certain that guy who start as invested WoW player, threw away pretty safe job in law to work in Blizzard, then work his way from bottom to game director is considering moving on his own? Nice judge of character, unless you have some inside info.

But fresh look is needed, that's why they are hiring assistant game director. I can picture Ion keeping title, oversee new guy and personally do stuff he's best like dungeons and raids.

Because people have moved the goal posts. First it was "Blizzard should make these changes". Now that Blizzard is making those changes, its now "Blizzard should have made those changes sooner" or even worse, "We shouldnt have to tell blizzard how to fix their game"

Also this:

"Issue #1 is worst things ever, fix it Blizzard"
"But it will create issue #2"
"FIX IT"
"Alright"
"Issue #2 is worst thing ever, fix it Blizzard, why you never listen"

[Lady Atia]

And what makes you think that making game easyer and faster is somehow good change? It feels more like some sort of entiltment of players what want rewards but doesnt want put any effort to get them. BTW we were not forced by anyone to have our bis covenants and conduits but you can be sure that players will demand it in 9.1.5 just for the fact everybody can swap into bis and you have no excuse anymore to not be in your bis build.

But why would I care for beeing "forced" in my bis soulbind if I can use all the cosmetics anyways? The problem so far was that "forcing" you to use your bis soulbind would mean you couldn't use the cosmetics you liked, which is fixed in 9.1.5.

Also as a Mythic Raider who also has 5/8 Keystone Heroes .... I can tell you that yes, making the game easier and faster will be a good change. They need to get the casual playerbase back. Yes, they shouldn't remove elite content but they should try to get a look at FFXIV and do what blizzard does best - use existing working things and copy them but make them better.

[Pheraz]

I kinda wish I got to experience the community at some sort of optimism peak but in reality there's always been a cloud of discontent. I remember my own excitement in TBC was massive but there were a lot of "I don't care for these new space zones, it's not WoW" and "Flying ruined the game". Wotlk was "too casual friendly and easy" by adding LFD and free epics and who doesn't remember the term "wrathbaby" that was used as an insult for any 'shill' who defended that expansion back then. Cataclysm 'ruined' the old zones and the dungeons were too 'hard' and Dragon Soul caused a lot of negativity both for the raid itself but also adding LFR. MoP got a lot of crap for pandas and pet battles, WoD with "no gameplay outside garrisons", Legion was RNGcraft at its heaviest with LFR items rolling up to mythic quality, legendaries being very badly implemented initially, BFA had azerite gear, essences, corruptions, SL has obviously had a lot of controversies on its own.

For me personally the game has had its ups and downs over the years though for me it mostly boils down to if I like the people I play with and the current raid/dungeons, but I just feel like there's never been a time in the game where people collectively agreed things were pretty good. Maybe in vanilla? But I'm sure people complained then too.

No, in vanilla people complained who were not in good guilds or even had no guilds at all that they could not get good gear.
And that leveling takes too long and many specs were bad and that only a few classes were fast with leveling.
And ofc hybrid classe being forced to heal (with the exception of late BWL start of AQ feral tanks).


Complaining on the internet makes you look like you can make an analysis of something. Maybe people think it makes them even look intelligent. Especially when they soak up the youtubers and streamers of their choice and repeat what they say like some mind slaves.
Especially the mind slaves of the racist that is Asmongold (even if he is funny sometimes, he is still a racist)

[Gaidax]

You're pretty certain that guy who start as invested WoW player, threw away pretty safe job in law to work in Blizzard, then work his way from bottom to game director is considering moving on his own? Nice judge of character, unless you have some inside info.

I mean... he outgrew WoW and he does not need this shit. He can do much more and get much more appreciation and $$ elsewhere like his predecessor did.

WoW and Blizzard (esp. at its current state) is not some end all be all pinnacle of the career.

[Tyron]

Probably because it doesn't change a thing for now, these are just some easy fixes to grab people for fall season until 9.2 comes out in december/next year. People won't change their stances until they see fundamental changes by next expansion.

[chiddie]

I think we should go back to the old valor gear system.

* Let's say you can get 2k VP every week from various activities like LFR, m+ etc but harder content gets you capped faster.
* You can then use that currency to buy heroic raid quality gear from a vendor over a long period of time, let's say 3 months for a full set.
* However if you've gotten ahead of the curve or keystone master you can buy mythic raid quality gear from that same vendor.

Once a new content patch comes out you can use justice points (that have no cap) to buy gear from the previous patch if you want to catch up on an alt or something.

Simple and effective.

Points to spend are a good idea but if points to spend come from activities you don’t wanna do, nothing will change.

As I said M+ are fine but we need alternatives. I stopped loggin because I stopped doing M+ and there’s nothing to do besides that to get past a certain ilvl, ilvl that you reach in a week of world quests.

Meanwhile I am pushing GRs in D3 and having tons of fun, go figure.

WoW has to become less gear centric or gear has to become way easier to get and we have to have fun in doing other things.

[Malix Farwin]

Because people have moved the goal posts. First it was "Blizzard should make these changes". Now that Blizzard is making those changes, its now "Blizzard should have made those changes sooner" or even worse, "We shouldnt have to tell blizzard how to fix their game"

The goal post was never moved but the changes feel artificial and systematic. No one is surprised about these changes because they always wait till -.1.5 or -.2 to throw in the changes to try to keep people/bring people back. They did it in Legion, BFA, and now SL.

Beyond all of this, Blizzard is in the dog house right now and it will take a lot more than this(and time) for people to come around. If you are upset that people aren't singing Blizzard praises because of 9.1.5 i am sorry but you are the one that has issues.

[potis]

What happened is that Blizzard simply spent all that good faith and benefit of the doubt currency over the years repeating same old mistakes. Where as 5 years ago it was all peachy new systems much wow and 2 years ago it was "hmm, mistakes happen it will surely get better" - today we get to the point where after ~4 years of same fuckups and consistent decline I just can't bring myself to write them a blank faith check.

Its not exactly fuck ups, its intended.

We all know all these weird stuff they are doing is about MAU and timegating the extreme casuals/expansion hoppers, its nothing else.

The problem is after these 5 years you mention, even those figured it out finally and the response is louder this time, they just need to start abandoning some things and evolve the game again, thats all.

No one would care if you didnt have to redo all these things on every character, its not like its the first time we have weeklies, or dailies, or long-period farming quests like Legendaries from MoP/WoD etc, but its not 2014, and we have seen the same stuff before.

We just need to fix the long term problems, faction imbalance? Merge them for PvE, fixed.
Long term players are burnt out of doing weeklies/farming AP/Reputation per char? Time for things to become account wide, like multiple games have done, remove Item Rewards from quests, return them to account wide currency,bla bla, there are multiple ways.

The problem comes from the fact they know that there are a huge amount of expansion hoppers with 1 character, and making those player 2-3-6 months is more profitable than making the active players farm less.

[Drindorai]

Probably because they've been pulling this, "Undo all our own self-imposed awful gameplay mechanics onto the players in a patch or two after launch" crap since Legion.

Furthermore the changes, while good, are minor and will not significantly change how Shadowlands operates for most players.

Also, some people may be pretending NOTHING about these changes are good, there are also a lot of people (Especially content creators still playing the game) that are really overblowing how 'good' these changes will be. You have people like Bellular acting like Shadowlands is saved because of a few minor quality of life fixes. Which rubs some people the wrong way due to how opportunistic it comes off as.

It's like putting a child's band-aid on a gunshot wound.

For me personally I'm done with paying for a game that constantly introduces gameplay features that serve no purpose other than to waste my time for weeks just to make me subscribe for longer so their metrics look good. And features that the community at large can clock exactly what the problems of it will be almost immediately, provide feedback about it for over half a year, and all the features are implemented in the game anyway.

If the game was just fun to begin with, I'd be subscribing for longer in the first place.

Oh and the story being worse than fanfic I wrote in 6th grade is also a big reason. And you can't emergency patch your way out of that scenario.

[Kuvanet]

It’s like getting beat by your boyfriend, boyfriend buys you makeup to cover up the beatings and promise he will change. Week later there is more makeup on the table when you get home.

[slime]

I thought it was bad enough that they give late comers all these speed boosts to catch up.
But this is way beyond that. I now know that I will only come back to wow 7-9 months after an expansion or big patch.

Then and only then will you get to play WoW the way you should.

It is literally slowed down to a near halt for the first comers.

I have no words for this change, except it's them admitting they ruined this entire expansion with their greed for our time.

[Blackmist]

Im happy for the changes, but its kinda the bare minimum. Stuff that should have been there from the start

Like getting a pizza at a restaurant, but with no cheese. You send it back and it comes back with cheese.

But not before having a 20 minute argument with the manager over what constitutes "cheese" and whether or not a pizza should come with it. After getting up to walk out, eventually they bring you one with cheese. But you have to wait for it.

[Kralljin]

I'd argue that this was already present in WoD, seeing as a lot of beta testers gave feedback on the over importance of the garrisons and it's flaws.

Difference in WoD was that they skipped (3) and (4) because they abandoned WoD.

Garrison were a terrible feature, but at the end of the day it didn't actively stopped you from doing something within the game or tried to get some more engagement out of it.
It was bad, but you could ignore it if you wanted to primarily engage with the core endgame of WoW.

Also needs to be said, fixing Garrisons would be a lot more challenging than say improving Legiondaries, Azerite or Covenants.

[Yarathir]

Do you know how a business works?

I can tell that they were probably doing what they were told to by their superiors prior the purge of blizzard throughout latest lawsuits.

Now that it's slowly starting from a clean ship with the removal of some of those superiors aKa lead designers from their respective divisions, I'm pretty sure it's a good step forward.

People seem to forget how hierarchy works, even in gaming companies.

Should give them a chance now that it's obvious they were molested, suppressed & abused.

I'm amazed how short minded people are, how easy they hop on a hype train because some fancy, no life youtuber said wo.

Short minded is seeing the same thing that happened in Legion and BfA happen again and going "It's totally different this time. Just believe bro, or otherwise you're a hater."

[Drindorai]

But not before having a 20 minute argument with the manager over what constitutes "cheese" and whether or not a pizza should come with it. After getting up to walk out, eventually they bring you one with cheese. But you have to wait for it.

While at the same time the manager loudly insists that the other customers also don't like cheese which is why they don't put it on their pizza, ignoring all the other customers actively listening and saying that isn't true.

[Swnem]

Because people are stupid. People think it's not a change in underlying game design philosophy. Yes we all wanted these changes 10 months ago, but we are also getting these changes 10 months ahead of time, which is a HUGE change than what we are use to. This has a very HIGH chance of being the change in philosophy we have all been wanting. People are complaining cause they watched Asmongold instead of coming up with their own opinion. This is all positive stuff and people are too much of sheep to see it

Lol... so, one is not allowed to see the obvious when they tell us they still think they were right to ship the way they did.
I mean the copium is chockening to the point you think people cannot possibly have their own opinion after years of malpractice. No, it must be Asmongold. He is the big bad wolf commanding the hordes!

You are laughable in how wrong you are. Asmongold did not put the game in the state it's in. Blizzard did. The notion that everyone is simping for Asmongold is hilarious.

I thought the game or these changes were bad way before Asmongold said anything. Many of us said so on this very website before youtubers even reacted to it. But, lets not let something like the truth get in the way of your tribalism.

[Yarathir]

"Why the negative reaction to them making changes everyone cried for in beta after charging a year of subscription for that horrible system?"

Its a head scratcher alright.

"I just cleaned my own puddle of piss after a year of making everyone walk through it. Praise me."