Fate of Afghanistan, Taliban resurgence

[Endus]

they sent a military superpower back home through metaphorical sticks and stones. They brag about it too. Also as someone pointed out, the Taliban are full of insane people that would die before admitting defeat in any capacity. I don't get how you would assume they think they're weak or vulnerable.

Let's be clear; the Taliban are "strong" like roaches are "strong". They survived. They had to keep retreating from up-front fights with the US, though. They had no capacity to stand up against them.

This wasn't a battle between two titans with the USA limping away, defeated. This was a guy smacking his shoe at a roach until he pulled a muscle in his arm and gave up.

[jonnysensible]

Let's be clear; the Taliban are "strong" like roaches are "strong". They survived. They had to keep retreating from up-front fights with the US, though. They had no capacity to stand up against them.

This wasn't a battle between two titans with the USA limping away, defeated. This was a guy smacking his shoe at a roach until he pulled a muscle in his arm and gave up.

i mean thats not what happened but if you have to tell yourself this kind of dehumanising rubbish good for you.

America turned up and battered the taliban into almost non existence. They fled to pakistan and could barely raise any money to get started again. (along with the remnants of AQ)

Then since the US wanted to kill people and punish people for 9/11 they asked the locals 'where are the taliban and AQ' and some local dickheads who wanted power said 'see these guys (who arent actually taliban or AQ but are just my local rivals/people whos land and businesses i want) they are the taliban'. And the US happily abducted them in the middle of the night and slaughtered them like dogs.

The US was handing out contracts to locals and the local villians decided to get the dumb as fuck americans to kill all thier opponents some of which were happily welcoming the americans.

Then the locals got sick of being slaughtered and dehumanised as 'roaches' picked up guns and shot back (usually IED'd back). And the Americans got what was fucking coming to them for being useless cunts.

The government they supported was so corrupt it was a ponzi scheme destined to collapse.

The US objectively lost the war because of its own mistakes. It smashed the taliban and then gave them life again. Was forced into talks and turned tail and ran away.

[PhaelixWW]

they sent a military superpower back home through metaphorical sticks and stones.

No, lol, they didn't. The US military could easily have stayed as long as they wanted. You keep trying to rewrite this as a US "loss" to the Taliban, but that's not what the reality of the situation is.

They brag about it too.

Of course they do. They're loudmouth bullies. You live in a strange world where bragging about winning means that you necessarily won. But you were a Trump supporter, so that tracks.

Also as someone pointed out, the Taliban are full of insane people that would die before admitting defeat in any capacity. I don't get how you would assume they think they're weak or vulnerable.

What they think and what they admit are two different things. People who are afraid to admit that they're weak are constantly trying to project a strength that they don't really have. That's, like, classic authoritarian mentality.

In a house of cards, a good bluff is king.

[Omega10]

i mean thats not what happened but if you have to tell yourself this kind of dehumanising rubbish good for you.

America turned up and battered the taliban into almost non existence. They fled to pakistan and could barely raise any money to get started again. (along with the remnants of AQ)

Then since the US wanted to kill people and punish people for 9/11 they asked the locals 'where are the taliban and AQ' and some local dickheads who wanted power said 'see these guys (who arent actually taliban or AQ but are just my local rivals/people whos land and businesses i want) they are the taliban'. And the US happily abducted them in the middle of the night and slaughtered them like dogs.

The US was handing out contracts to locals and the local villians decided to get the dumb as fuck americans to kill all thier opponents some of which were happily welcoming the americans.

Then the locals got sick of being slaughtered and dehumanised as 'roaches' picked up guns and shot back (usually IED'd back). And the Americans got what was fucking coming to them for being useless cunts.

The government they supported was so corrupt it was a ponzi scheme destined to collapse.

The US objectively lost the war because of its own mistakes. It smashed the taliban and then gave them life again. Was forced into talks and turned tail and ran away.

I suspect that there are a lot of people in the world that agree with this narrative. In many countries, the US is considered to be the biggest threat to peace in the world.

[Katchii]

they sent a military superpower back home through metaphorical sticks and stones. They brag about it too. Also as someone pointed out, the Taliban are full of insane people that would die before admitting defeat in any capacity. I don't get how you would assume they think they're weak or vulnerable.

They didn't send home anyone, the US left of their own accord.

It's like a yippy ankle biting dog trying to take credit for the big bad stranger leaving their house when it was actually really just 9 PM and the dinner guest needed to go home because they had work the next day.

[uuuhname]

I don't care what the average American thinks and if they don't, it's on them. That includes you, it seems.

and there it is, the forever back seat driver; barking orders like it's your car and as if anyone is interested in handing you the AUX cord.

yeah, NO SHIT you don't care about the US being the one who has to spend it's money, resources and lives so you can pretend to piggy back off of an empire that was never yours. it's so easy for you to get angry when you're not the one who has had to suffer from the cultural and financial rot that has been the war on terror. it's so easy to act like an arm chair general and recede into your mind palace and come up with all sorts of inane situations where the switch is flipped and democracy kicks in just like the family guy joke I mentioned in the first response to this thread.

Maybe your dislike for the West is the issue and maybe America, after all, is not bad. I really wonder what would have been your solution to the talibs hosting AQ...

I'm sorry that facts and history don't jive with your jingoism broseph. the fact that I care at all to criticize it means I care about it more than you do.

[YUPPIE]

And Trump, your lord and savior, literally negotiated with the terrorists, so, I don't know why you are trying to blame fucking Biden for this bullshit.

because biden could have either terminated trump's pending withdrawal order, or at the least not repeatedly affirm he thought he was in the right going through with it.

He could have also just said something along the lines of "this was trump's fault and I had no control over it" to save face.

[Fuiking]

because biden could have either terminated trump's pending withdrawal order, or at the least not repeatedly affirm he thought he was in the right going through with it.

He could have also just said something along the lines of "this was trump's fault and I had no control over it" to save face.

I detect high level of whataboutism.

[D Luniz]

because biden could have either terminated trump's pending withdrawal order, or at the least not repeatedly affirm he thought he was in the right going through with it.

He could have also just said something along the lines of "this was trump's fault and I had no control over it" to save face.

there were only 2500 troops left
If Biden chose to stay, the Tailban would have started attacking US troops again.
And then the options would have been, another troop surge, or pull out the last 2500 plus civilian staff WHILE being shot at

and that 2nd option would have made those loses from that suicide bomb look like a slow day

[Shadowferal]

because biden could have either terminated trump's pending withdrawal order, or at the least not repeatedly affirm he thought he was in the right going through with it.

Lol... It's Biden's fault because he followed Trump's lead... You're a joke.

He could have also just said something along the lines of "this was trump's fault and I had no control over it" to save face.

So basically he should've repeated what everybody has been telling you. Which qe already knew from earlier before Biden took over from Trump himself.

[Mihalik]

drivel.

The Taliban are bad, and evil and all that.

And irrational and all that with their religious laws.

But they always sought foreign recognition and legitimacy.

They would run extortion rackets and such and would call it "taxation" but they typically steered clear of randomly killing foreigners.

There is method to the madness. Providing foreigners with safe passage was always a lucrative affair for the Taliban.

Again, you clearly know fuckall about the Taliban and you also can't actually be bothered to learn anything, you're just vomiting up random speculation that fits your narrative.

The absolutely greatest victory for the Taliban would be foreign recognition (preferably global, but even regional would do), it would allow them to start exporting minerals, gain access to foreign currency and then could use that to import guns which would allow them consolidate their rule.

Randomly murdering foreigners is likely to hinder those ambitions.

There's nothing, and I mean nothing the Taliban would like more than American and European mining companies showing up to start mining shit, all those dollars and euros in taxes and local spending.

[PhaelixWW]

because biden could have either terminated trump's pending withdrawal order, or at the least not repeatedly affirm he thought he was in the right going through with it.

But it was the right thing to do. And there was a peace agreement.

He could have also just said something along the lines of "this was trump's fault and I had no control over it" to save face.

No, sorry, that's not the way international diplomacy works. Just because they're a brutal regime and just because the Trump administration brokered the agreement doesn't mean Biden could just completely break the agreement and blame Trump. The damage to the US's credibility would still be done.

But again, getting out of Afghanistan was the right thing to do, and the vast majority of the country agreed.

[Mihalik]

sip

There's a special type of ongoing idiocy in right wing politics these days where people don't seem to grasp that international agreements are like binding contracts. They are literally the law of the land and as such are meant to be enforced by the signatories themselves upon themselves.

It's not even a question of national reputation, it's a question of rule of law, when a nation fails to uphold the agreements it makes it itself a pariah.

Furthermore, just because you changed the administration it doesn't mean all the agreements suddenly become null and void, because that would be akin to a major Fortune 500 company just going "Welp, the shareholders just voted in a new board and CEO, so all the contracts the new CEO dislikes are now unilaterally voided". It just doesn't work like that.

[jonnysensible]

This is a good example of American fuckery : https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1436422176425578496

Everyone involved in this is a murderer. Any accountability? nah.

[Shalcker]

This is a good example of American fuckery : https://twitter.com/evanhill/status/1436422176425578496

Everyone involved in this is a murderer. Any accountability? nah.

You should expect most US strikes on alleged terrorists to have similar (or worse) levels of justification.

[YUPPIE]

The Taliban are bad, and evil and all that.

And irrational and all that with their religious laws.

But they always sought foreign recognition and legitimacy.

They would run extortion rackets and such and would call it "taxation" but they typically steered clear of randomly killing foreigners.

There is method to the madness. Providing foreigners with safe passage was always a lucrative affair for the Taliban.

Again, you clearly know fuckall about the Taliban and you also can't actually be bothered to learn anything, you're just vomiting up random speculation that fits your narrative.

The absolutely greatest victory for the Taliban would be foreign recognition (preferably global, but even regional would do), it would allow them to start exporting minerals, gain access to foreign currency and then could use that to import guns which would allow them consolidate their rule.

Randomly murdering foreigners is likely to hinder those ambitions.

There's nothing, and I mean nothing the Taliban would like more than American and European mining companies showing up to start mining shit, all those dollars and euros in taxes and local spending.

no one should give the taliban any aid or recognition like that, watch them undergo a quarantined famine (this was actually a strategy going on and fears of food shortage were raised), anarchy or infighting ensues and their antics at legitimacy fall apart completely.

but there's china that is giving them aid now in food and basic supplies, pretty much undermining the concept of this.

EDIT: And people are demonizing US drone strikes again
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-children.html

[caervek]

No, sorry, that's not the way international diplomacy works. Just because they're a brutal regime and just because the Trump administration brokered the agreement doesn't mean Biden could just completely break the agreement and blame Trump. The damage to the US's credibility would still be done.

In fairness any damage to the US's credibility caused by Biden altering Trumps timeline/etc would have been much smaller than the damage to the US's credibility that's been caused by Biden's Afghan withdrawal.

Hell it would have also been much much smaller than the damage to the US's credibility done when Trump reneged on the Iran deal and pulled the US out of it, leaving the EU holding the bag.

Biden may not have been the one to come up with the idea to withdraw, but he was the one who executed it and the resulting disaster rests entirely on his shoulders. Hell many western countries now consider him more of a liability than Trump was lol.

[PhaelixWW]

In fairness any damage to the US's credibility caused by Biden altering Trumps timeline/etc would have been much smaller than the damage to the US's credibility that's been caused by Biden's Afghan withdrawal.

Uh, no. You're confusing favorability with credibility. Favorability is how likely the average person in x country is to like you. Credibility, on the other hand, is how likely a policymaker of x country is to trust you and your word.

Hell it would have also been much much smaller than the damage to the US's credibility done when Trump reneged on the Iran deal and pulled the US out of it, leaving the EU holding the bag.

No, see, Trump didn't break an agreement. He withdrew the US from an long-term agreement that allowed for such withdrawal. It was the wrong thing to do, and it led to a drop in favorability (like most things that Trump did), but it wasn't the same thing.

Biden may not have been the one to come up with the idea to withdraw, but he was the one who executed it and the resulting disaster rests entirely on his shoulders.

Nah, it's quite easy to blame the Afghan government for failing so spectacularly.

Hell many western countries now consider him more of a liability than Trump was lol.

Hah, no, they don't.

[caervek]

Uh, no. You're confusing favorability with credibility. Favorability is how likely the average person in x country is to like you. Credibility, on the other hand, is how likely a policymaker of x country is to trust you and your word.

Nah, it's quite easy to blame the Afghan government for failing so spectacularly.

Hah, no, they don't.

Yeah...

I'm not trying to be rude or anything here, but you either fail to understand or fail to appreciate just how much damage Biden's botched withdrawal has done to US credibility overseas. Maybe this is a disconnect between what the media in the US are saying compared to what's actually going on but either way it's way worse than you seem to believe.

To put it in perspective, Trump was president for four years and while he did a lot of damage to the US's credibility (especially when he abandoned the Iran deal) at no point were serving European politicians as openly critical of him as they have been of Biden due to the botched Afghan withdrawal. Hell we have members of government openly stating that the Biden administration can no longer be relied on as a partner in situations like this.

And I'm not sure how your media is reacting to Biden's bullshit that this was always going to be the outcome or that it couldn't have been done better? But on this side of the Atlantic it has gone down very badly.

Had the withdrawal been handled in a competent manner and had allies/Afghanistan actually been consulted properly then right now the Taliban would hold one province, if they were lucky, and potentially the non-US armies would have remained to work with the Afghan army. But instead the Taliban hold the entire county and all western military/civilian personnel have had to flee for their lives all due to Biden shitting the bed.

[JohnBrown1917]

no one should give the taliban any aid or recognition like that, watch them undergo a quarantined famine (this was actually a strategy going on and fears of food shortage were raised), anarchy or infighting ensues and their antics at legitimacy fall apart completely.

but there's china that is giving them aid now in food and basic supplies, pretty much undermining the concept of this.

So many horrible regimes are recognized, nobody gives a fuck. But those countries benefit your country so you probably don't mind either.

EDIT: And people are demonizing US drone strikes again
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-children.html

good.