[TV] Lucifer

[eschatological]

God was being manipulated by Michael, though. Then again, he's omnipotent and omniscient, so he knew and could stop Michael manipulating him, so he's still a bastard.

Writing Christian God is just impossible. He's either evil or all powerful. There's no in between.

I think, God aside, it's about free will being the impetus behind all the bad shit in the world. God can control you, but God wants you to control yourself.

Even the stuff that isn't from free will, like hurricanes and disease are...simply how the world works, natural, and not inherently evil. The evil in them usually comes from how we respond to it, or sometimes even cause it to be worse.

That's why fictional portrayals of God tend to be "Yeah, God is omnipotent, but chooses not to interfere." There's a lot of theology in that kind of area.

[Malania]

Nobody tell Malania about Invincible…

I'm aware of it. I just haven't read it to be offended by how badly they screwed it up in the conversion. However from what I've heard and seen (meme's and youtube etc), it's apparently good.

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I think, God aside, it's about free will being the impetus behind all the bad shit in the world. God can control you, but God wants you to control yourself.

Even the stuff that isn't from free will, like hurricanes and disease are...simply how the world works, natural, and not inherently evil. The evil in them usually comes from how we respond to it, or sometimes even cause it to be worse.

That's why fictional portrayals of God tend to be "Yeah, God is omnipotent, but chooses not to interfere." There's a lot of theology in that kind of area.

God is abstract, you cannot define it by human characteristics. Doing so limit's it to something understandable and relatable but in no way encompassing what an entity of such awareness and consciousness would view humans as. The only way you can love a God as capricious as the Abrahamic God is by treating it as relatable in human looks and feelings and thoughts otherwise you're a bug under a microscope to a cosmic horror. Morality would be irrelevant to something that can see every possible action as long as everything is merely a link in a chain to the ultimate goal.

That's why I liked the cosmic scale of the Lucifer graphic novel. They portrayed God as far beyond what we view as God, reducing the universe and everything in it to an experiment so it could experience surprise for the first time. Morality was irrelevant to everything but the humans and the only time an entity other than a human felt empathy was when something from outside of our universe took human form and mimic'd everything perfectly.

There's an amusing short called the Voorman Problem with Martin Freeman if you like things about cosmic horrors.

[Svifnymr]

God was being manipulated by Michael, though. Then again, he's omnipotent and omniscient, so he knew and could stop Michael manipulating him, so he's still a bastard.

It's still a little odd, Michaels ability, since Lucifer can't affect celestial beings with his ability find out what they desire, but Michael can manipulate fears to an odd extent. Is he using a power to learn what the person fears? Is he using a power to cause them to fear? Is he just abusing the self-actualization mechanic of the universe and not using a power at all?

[starstationprofm]

It's still a little odd, Michaels ability, since Lucifer can't affect celestial beings with his ability find out what they desire, but Michael can manipulate fears to an odd extent. Is he using a power to learn what the person fears? Is he using a power to cause them to fear? Is he just abusing the self-actualization mechanic of the universe and not using a power at all?

Or God knew what Michael wanted and played along

[Svifnymr]

Or God knew what Michael wanted and played along

certainly a possibility, of course, but his powers did work on other celestials too, so it's still an open question.

[starstationprofm]

certainly a possibility, of course, but his powers did work on other celestials too, so it's still an open question.

But he didn't do the " What is it you truly fear " thing on them, he just manipulated them. I don't think it's Divine Power, just being really good at manipulation.

Like how Lucifer has the desire power which doesn't work on CHloe, but he's also naturally charismatic.

[Nickorvis]

I think they kind of hinted at the true purpose of hell in the finale.

That being to help the souls of hell work through their grief and regrets and enter heaven.

[Unforgivenn]

Well, good ending..

And that battle on final of s5 for nothing

[Fenzha]

Ending was OK but I just didn't care about the first 7 or so episodes, seemed like making them into Lucifer episodes was an afterthought.

Probably could have cut the first 7 down into 2-3 episodes and nothing much would have been lost.

[everydaygamer]

I liked it, it was a really solid final season.

[Sughs]

They really ended it with THAT song? Nice!

It was a good season but some inconsistencies from the writers again.

[everydaygamer]

They really ended it with THAT song? Nice!

It was a good season but some inconsistencies from the writers again.

My biggest criticism would have to be how much they backpeddled on a lot of choices they made in season 5.

[NaibiKoyta]

Meh, cant resist even 1 episode

[Unforgivenn]

My biggest criticism would have to be how much they backpeddled on a lot of choices they made in season 5.

Yeah..

On the last ep of s5, Michael offered lucifer to in hell with chloe, while lucifer declined. And now boom, they are both in hell lol

[everydaygamer]

Yeah, but Michael’s petty ass isn’t ruling all of existence.

But that was only a possibility because Amenadiel didn't want to be god only for him to end up being God in the end anyways.

[eschatological]

Well, finished this today.

IDK, introducing a character in the last act, especially one apparently so pivotal, is difficult to pull off and I don't think they managed it. I think they could have pulled it off better if they made Lopez the stand-in, made her have a real crisis of faith, which makes the other characters struggle to come to terms with their roles and positions.

End result I have no real problems with. I would have loved one last scene with Amenedial and Lopez after he ascended, to let her know God would always be with her. She's the only person who had any real faith in the entire series, and that storyline kinda just fizzled out at the end.

[jellmoo]

Just finished the last season. Wooooboy was that... Yeah. I get that they kind of had to pull another season out of nowehere, but that was rough. The pacing was all over the place, the story was a mess, and I'm pretty sure that filming restrictions hit them hard.

It had been my guilty pleasure show, but that last season was close to unwatchable. Characters became little more than plot devices, and the plot itself moved too far away from what made the show fun in the first place. There were some good and genuinely fun moments, but by and large it was one of the worst seasons of a show I've seen for a show that I used to thoroughly enjoy.

[blackeyemir]

Lucifer, very good tv show. I love it

[Asrialol]

Yeah..

On the last ep of s5, Michael offered lucifer to in hell with chloe, while lucifer declined. And now boom, they are both in hell lol

Hell has changed, though. Instead of punishing and torturing they're not working on attoning for their sins.

[sarow]

So, just finished last season today and...damn, I don't know what to say.

There are many funny/Luciferish moments we are used to and love, but I can assure that I feel disappointed, especially with the last episode. I see many inconsistencies, plots that were just unnecesary imo, like Maze and Eve's wedding, the last minute appearance of Adam for nor reason whatsoever or impactful to the story and also, Ella's character was just...wasted in the end? I don't know how to describe her part on the story, seems to me like they didn't give a proper finish to her and many other things.

Also, I felt SO excited about Rory appearing because of "time traveling" ('cause I love those kind of stories, BTTF, Donnie Darko, Trunk's arc in DBZ) but in the end it wasn't that satisfactory for me, felt like they could have done more with that, even revisit some of the early episodes and have an impact on the present story.

I think the last episode is exactly as Game of Throne's last one, really anticlimatic, and it is a shame because we, as viewers, or at least me, want to see closure on characters we like and have been attached to them for a few years now. Anyways, I don't know what was the original ending to the series, be it Lucifer becoming God as it was shown in season 5 or something else, but I kind of believe that would have been much better than what we got with season 6.