US, Uk and Australia announce new defence partnership, technology sharing

[Chairman Sheng-Ji Yang]

They hold a bunch of islands in the South Atlantic for strategic sheep purposes.

Add to that a fair number of islands in the Carribean, the very very strategic Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean and Pitcairn in the Pacific.

[Pann]

France has recalled its ambassadors from the US and Australia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58604677

[Yadryonych]

NZ isn't happy.

Really wondering why they forgot to invite the NZ, but I guess a safe harbour must remain safe

[PACOX]

France has recalled its ambassadors from the US and Australia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58604677

Glancing over a couple of articles it seems like France might have slacking to deliever its end of a sub-deal so Austrailia went with the US. But it also seems to be some deeper internal issues among the allies. Could be bad politics, could be a little favoritism going on, who knows. Either way it seems like there some pettiness thats stems from more than just the sub deal.

[Mihalik]

France has recalled its ambassadors from the US and Australia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58604677

That's a massive overreaction to be honest here.

Being as empathetic to the French as possible, that's pointless posturing.

- - - Updated - - -

Glancing over a couple of articles it seems like France might have slacking to deliever its end of a sub-deal so Austrailia went with the US. But it also seems to be some deeper internal issues among the allies. Could be bad politics, could be a little favoritism going on, who knows. Either way it seems like there some pettiness thats stems from more than just the sub deal.

France always had the issue of competing for defense contracts in a very crowded field.

It spent decades as the one major western power outside NATO, so it ended up building a massive domestic defense industry that actually collaborates with NATO a lot less than the Germans, Italians, Spanish and even Brits.

Also to be honest, the Aussies moaning about cost overruns....I am like.... Have you guys ever done defense contracting before or is this your first time?

[PACOX]

That's a massive overreaction to be honest here.

Being as empathetic to the French as possible, that's pointless posturing.

Maybe. I can't picture such a dramatic reaction if this was the first thing that ticked them off.

[Shadowferal]

Maybe. I can't picture such a dramatic reaction if this was the first thing that ticked them off.

Yeah, I'm seeing other factors like Brexit, the French desire to thumb its nose...but then the US steps up and shows yet again that special relationship that refuses to let the UK give even the appearance of surviving alone. Biden knows that France can take the financial hit.

[JohnBrown1917]

France has recalled its ambassadors from the US and Australia

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-58604677

Very small hope it leads to enough friction for France to leave NATO, leading into some other mainland euro countries leaving too.


I can always hope.

[Shadowferal]

Breaking up NATO will make Russia happy. And Germany nervous. France won't like a nervous Germany.

[Shalcker]

Breaking up NATO will make Russia happy. And Germany nervous. France won't like a nervous Germany.

France was out of NATO for quite a while and that didn't make Russia particularly happy.

[zealo]

Maybe. I can't picture such a dramatic reaction if this was the first thing that ticked them off.

That’s because this is less about the submarines, and more about how US/UK/AUS were keeping France in the dark about these developments. France and Australia held a joint meeting between defence ministers were the deal with France were being held up as important for future relations by both sides only three weeks ago, all while knowingly planning to swap to the US.

France isn’t upset about being snubbed on an arms deal in itself, they’re upset at the absolutely atrocious diplomatic handling of keeping them in the loop of events through proper diplomatic channels.

Anyone telling you this is an overreaction do not understand why France is reacting like this.

[Shalcker]

When was France out of NATO? As far as I can tell they’ve been a member since 1949.

They rejoined NATO command only in 2009, after 43 years of "independence".

[Shadowferal]

France was out of NATO for quite a while and that didn't make Russia particularly happy.

I didn't say France.
I said "breaking up NATO."

[Deus Mortis]

In escalation over submarine deal, France recalls envoys from U.S. and Australia
https://www.yahoo.com/news/australia...043551204.html

PARIS/CANBERRA/WASHINGTON (Reuters) -France plunged into an unprecedented diplomatic crisis with the United States and Australia on Friday after it recalled its ambassadors from both countries over a trilateral security deal which sank a French-designed submarine contract with Canberra.

The rare decision taken by French President Emmanuel Macron was made due to the "exceptional gravity" of the matter, Foreign Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian said in a statement.

On Thursday, Australia said it would scrap a $40 billion deal signed in 2016 for France's Naval Group to build a fleet of conventional submarines and would instead build at least eight nuclear-powered submarines with U.S. and British technology after striking a trilateral security partnership. France called it a stab in the back.

A diplomatic source in France said it was the first time Paris had recalled its own ambassadors in this way.

Australia said on Saturday morning it regretted the recall, and that it valued the relationship with France and would keep engaging with Paris on other issues.

"Australia understands France's deep disappointment with our decision, which was taken in accordance with our clear and communicated national security interests," a spokesperson for Foreign Affairs Minister Marise Payne said in a statement. [L4N2QJ3JI]

U.S. State Department spokesperson Ned Price said that France was a 'vital ally' and that the United States would be engaged in coming days to resolve the differences.

The French foreign ministry statement made no mention of Britain, but the diplomatic source said France considered Britain had joined the deal in an opportunistic manner.

"We don't need to hold consultations with our (British) ambassador to know what to make of it or to draw any conclusions," the source added.

Le Drian said the deal was unacceptable.

"The cancellation (of the project) ... and the announcement of a new partnership with the United States meant to launch studies on a possible future cooperation on nuclear-powered submarines, constitute unacceptable behavior between allies and partners," he said in a statement.

He added that the consequences "directly affect the vision we have of our alliances, of our partnerships and of the importance of the Indo-Pacific for Europe."

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It's funny the amount of copium being huffed on this topic in here. France had its shot. It missed deadline after deadline. It missed cost points time and time again. The product to be delivered kept losing operational value as cost continued to skyrocket. So the Australians went to a different dealer. If France delivered anywhere even remotely near when they were suppose to at anywhere near the price it was suppose to be it wouldn't even be a conversation.

They, as in France, dropped the ball. If they want to cry about it then they can. If people want to dream of some NATO breakup because the US and UK are willing to deliver than take another huff of the cope. Because it isn't happening. Probably won't even hear of it in 6 months when some other reasons to cry about other things arise.

[Draco-Onis]

It's funny the amount of copium being huffed on this topic in here. France had its shot. It missed deadline after deadline. It missed cost points time and time again. The product to be delivered kept losing operational value as cost continued to skyrocket. So the Australians went to a different dealer. If France delivered anywhere even remotely near when they were suppose to at anywhere near the price it was suppose to be it wouldn't even be a conversation.

They, as in France, dropped the ball. If they want to cry about it then they can. If people want to dream of some NATO breakup because the US and UK are willing to deliver than take another huff of the cope. Because it isn't happening. Probably won't even hear of it in 6 months when some other reasons to cry about other things arise.

I don't think it is that it seems that the US and UK blindsided them, delays and cost overruns are pretty common and it's highly unlikely the US and UK are going to be on point. The thing that adds insult to injury is that Australia doesn't have a nuclear program so them getting a nuclear sub makes no sense whatsoever. This is all about irritating China, if it was about the deal they wouldn't go with nuclear subs.

[Yadryonych]

This is all about irritating China

This is much more about tickling britain's tiny withered imperial ego

[Shadowferal]

It's going to be amazing if the thing that kills NATO is Australia reneging on an arms deal with france.

France isn't that stupid.
And if they get any more pushy, Germany will likely set them straight.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I don't think it is that it seems that the US and UK blindsided them, delays and cost overruns are pretty common and it's highly unlikely the US and UK are going to be on point. The thing that adds insult to injury is that Australia doesn't have a nuclear program so them getting a nuclear sub makes no sense whatsoever. This is all about irritating China, if it was about the deal they wouldn't go with nuclear subs.

Maybe the US and UK won't be on point. But we are still in the maybe zone. France was in the triple overtime and asking for triple rent and the need to maybe double it again here in a minute zone already.

Of course it was about making China mad. France had its shot to be that player and fumbled. Now the US and UK get their shot. Anything beyond that is just smoking cope.

[zealo]

It's funny the amount of copium being huffed on this topic in here. France had its shot. It missed deadline after deadline. It missed cost points time and time again. The product to be delivered kept losing operational value as cost continued to skyrocket. So the Australians went to a different dealer. If France delivered anywhere even remotely near when they were suppose to at anywhere near the price it was suppose to be it wouldn't even be a conversation.

They, as in France, dropped the ball. If they want to cry about it then they can. If people want to dream of some NATO breakup because the US and UK are willing to deliver than take another huff of the cope. Because it isn't happening. Probably won't even hear of it in 6 months when some other reasons to cry about other things arise.

What’s funny is people commenting on this without displaying even the most basic awareness of what got France so pissed. Australia choosing a different arms deal is far from what has them reacting like this. The absolutely atrocious diplomatic handling of how they went about doing that switch is far more central to the outrage.