Is WoW Pay 2 Win?

[Drusin]

irrefutable sources.

lol that's the funny thing, there would never be such a thing, at least I can't see how. Who would we trust and recognize to come up with video game terminology definitions?

[Daymanmb]

But only if they buy advantages. What if they don't? How do you tell if the token is pay to win or not when you don't know what the gold is spent on at the time of the transaction? Buying gold is not a win. This isn't a wealth simulator. Stop adding additional layers to it just you can call it something it clearly is not.

Who cares what if lmao.. you can and people do lol. Enough with your nonsense..

[Eldar45]

Buying gold and buying the achievements / crap crafted or boe armor isn't paying to win. It may be paying to progress in a way, but it isn't pay to win. Pay to win is buying something which is otherwise unavailable to the player base that is more powerful than anything the player base can get.

A good example of pay to win was APB back in the day. You could buy guns that other players couldn't get through the normal content and basically be the only person on a team worth having.

[Daymanmb]

Buying gold and buying the achievements / crap crafted or boe armor isn't paying to win. It may be paying to progress in a way, but it isn't pay to win. Pay to win is buying something which is otherwise unavailable to the player base that is more powerful than anything the player base can get.

A good example of pay to win was APB back in the day. You could buy guns that other players couldn't get through the normal content and basically be the only person on a team worth having.

Johnny come lately, you wrong, bud. Paying real money for advantages is p2w, not just your narrow scope.

[saintminya]

This is like a Tootsie Pop advert or something. I wonder just how many people it will take to point out what P2W actually is before some of these folks finally accept it?

[arkanon]

Which you still can't directly purchase, but nice try. You can't avoid the full grind for anything that takes those weeks or month to acquire. You can't bypass running the dungeons/raids/arenas. You of course can't ever get access to any content that is not attainable in the game itself that provides any gameplay advantage. Only mount and pet collectors can reasonably bitch about the shop offering anything that cannot be attained in game. Glad to see you still pick and choose and ignore all the other fine examples offered by both my links so you can more readily misconstrue the info and continue acting like a dick.

Lvl 58 in tbcc.

[Relapses]

This is like a Tootsie Pop advert or something. I wonder just how many people it will take to point out what P2W actually is before some of these folks finally accept it?

Honestly, they should just add P2W to the list of topics we aren't able to discuss. There are strong opinions on either side of the fence, nobody wants to meet in the middle and the only constant seems to be how upset it makes people. This topic will go to 2,000 pages and people will just come in and start the same semantic argument ad infinitum.

[Daymanmb]

Glad to see you still pick and choose and ignore all the other fine examples offered by both my links so you can more readily misconstrue the info and continue acting like a dick.

Youre upset your source contradicts your position? I dont know what you want from me... maybe actually read the source before you link it next time lol.

[rhorle]

Who cares what if lmao.. you can and people do lol. Enough with your nonsense..

So then buying gold isn't pay to win if it can also not be pay to win. How can it be both at the same time? It is not nonsense if it refutes your entire argument. Buying gold is not pay to win. It is a micro transaction for gold. What you do with it is up to you and can be used to buy a win, like all gold can, or it can be used one something else that is not tied to player power.

[Daymanmb]

What you do with it is up to you and can be used to buy a win, like all gold can, or it can be used one something else that is not tied to player power.

The fact that you can buy advantages and it is used in such a way is enough. Choosing not to buy advantages with the gold you paid real money for, doesnt make the process less p2w for all of those people who do. Again, this is like buying an extra item slot in RIFT and choosing not to using it.. That dopesnt make RIFT not p2w. It doesnt work like that..

[rhorle]

The fact that you can buy advantages and it is used in such a way is enough. Again, this is like buying an extra item slot in RIFT and not using it, makes RIFT not p2w. It doesnt work like that..

But it is nothing like buying an extra item slot. You only get a win from gold if players are able to offer the service and few can at the start of a raid tier. Which means that all of those tokens are bought at that time are not providing anything but gold. Strange right?

You are arguing that gold, by itself, is paying to win. That is what "buying but not using a rift item slot" is stating. So why is it, if buying gold is always pay to win, you early agreed that it sometimes is not? Weird right? Your own argument contradicts itself.

[Daymanmb]

But it is nothing like buying an extra item slot. You only get a win from gold if players are able to offer the service and few can at the start of a raid tier. Which means that all of those tokens are bought at that time are not providing anything but gold. Strange right?

Well, you only get a win if you fill that slot.. Some may choose not to /shrug. Guess RIFT isnt p2w after all..

- - - Updated - - -

You are arguing that gold, by itself, is paying to win. That is what "buying but not using a rift item slot" is stating. So why is it, if buying gold is always pay to win, you early agreed that it sometimes is not? Weird right? Your own argument contradicts itself.

Again, yore not reading the words Im saying, so Ill quote myself so you can read it again:

Right, but when you buy a token to buy a carry it becomes p2w . I dont think buying carries with farmed/earned gold is p2w.

You buy advantages with the gold that you buy with real money from blizzard, which makes buying the gold p2w. I dont understand your confusion.

So no, Im not, "arguing that gold, by itself, is paying to win." Advantages are then bought with that gold. The reference to RIFT was sarcasm, turning your piss poor argument against itself.

Youre saying if people dont buy advantages with the gold they spend real money on, then WoW is not p2w. Like in RIFT, if you buy an extra item slot, but dont use it, then RIFT isnt p2w... Right?

[rhorle]

So no, Im not, "arguing that gold, by itself, is paying to win." Advantages are then bought with that gold.

And yet you are because you are saying that it would be pay to win even if you don't buy a win with the gold. Just like buying a item slot in rift, and not using it, is still pay to win. You can't have it both ways. Pick one to be true and one to be a lie.

[Daymanmb]

And yet you are because you are saying that it would be pay to win even if you don't buy a win with the gold. Just like buying a item slot in rift, and not using it, is still pay to win. You can't have it both ways. Pick one to be true and one to be a lie.

The point is that people dont actually do that lmao, at least such an insignificant number, that its not worth discussing... while some people might not spend gold on advantages, Im certain theyre few and far between, while the vast majority does, making the system overall p2w.

We dont need everyone to participate in the system the same way, for the system to be p2w. The fact is, people buy gold to buy advantages. Its that simple. We all know this to be true.

[Usernameforforums]

You buy advantages with the gold that you buy with real money from blizzard, which makes buying the gold p2w. I dont understand your confusion.

The problem is that you can easily make gold ingame and do those same boosting services.

[Daymanmb]

The problem is that you can easily make gold ingame and do those same boosting services.

Okay, thats not p2w then, is it? Did you spend real money to buy the advantages? No? Then its not a problem.

[Usernameforforums]

Okay, thats not p2w then, is it? Did you spend real money to buy the advantages? No? Then its not a problem.

The problem with the argument “for pay to win in wow”

[Daymanmb]

The problem with the argument “for pay to win in wow”

Not if you didnt spend real money... if you earned the gold, you didnt pay real money for the advantage over those who didnt spend real money.

[crusadernero]

If it was pay-2-win shouldn't the people paying be fully geared before the boosters?

whats that kind of argument? It works as is does and if anything were to change in the MMORPGs scene(in wow), the boosted people would be geared even quicker. As the system works now, the boosters grab gear first before running boosts. Theres very few people who run these boosts compared to the overall playerbase.

[rhorle]

The point is that people dont actually do that lmao, at least such an insignificant number, that its not worth discussing... while some people might not spend gold on advantages, Im certain theyre few and far between, while the vast majority does, making the system overall p2w.

So people don't do what you keep bringing up as a counter to something people actually do. People do buy tokens with out buying boosts. Which means the token can't be pay to win if it isn't always pay to win. Notice how you've gone from "It is pay to win" to "It is majority pay to win". That is the problem when people use subjective reasoning for pay to win definitions. You have to compromise instead of just admitting that it isn't pay to win.

If the system allows for non pay to win things then it is not by default pay to win. It can't be both, this isn't Schrodinger's token.