Some Flirts and Jokes Removed on the PTR, Fathom Dweller Available in NA, DLC #791

[Relapses]

It's pretty fucking stupid to be so extremely dense not to be able to grasp the fact that people don't like these changes because blizzard devs would rather waste time with nonsense changes immediately rather than actually create content for a game that desperately needs it.

Because it's impossible to live in a world where Blizzard does both?

[Kralljin]

If only there were a way for human beings to rationalize the difference between story changes and meaningless item name/dialogue changes in a video game... if only..

I think i'm perfectly capable of that, even as the game made fun at my expense.

When it comes to those people that actually have issues with certain elements in the game, they are in fact showing that they are not capable of that.

But with statement like these, you just highlight that self reflection is very much absent on your side.

We can't allow Blizzard's own developers to pick and choose what they feel is appropriate for the game. No, either none of it's okay or all of it's okay. There's no room for nuance in this discussion.

People that write a story about literal genocide, then make a plot how the victims of that genocide should "choose renewal" but then think that a dictator that has enslaved an entire continent having some "Consorts" is "too much", do not get to talk about nuance, because they clearly don't have it.

[NotAvry]

Sad to see blizzard bother their time on stuff like this instead of actually fixing the game.

[DarkAmbient]

Sad to see blizzard bother their time on stuff like this instead of actually fixing the game.

They actually think they are fixing the game by doing this though.

[Relapses]

They actually think they are fixing the game by doing this though.

They aren't fixing as much as they are creating a game which reflects the current development team's values. You know, kind of like exactly what the official statement Blizzard released says.

[bloodkin]

Because it's impossible to live in a world where Blizzard does both?

A waste of time is still a waste of time, even if you pretend it was somehow useful.

[Relapses]

People that write a story about literal genocide, then make a plot how the victims of that genocide should "choose renewal" but then think that a dictator that has enslaved an entire continent having some "Consorts" is "too much", do not get to talk about nuance, because they clearly don't have it.

We don't know the context behind the Consorts change so I think it's a bit unfair to put that on the same spectrum as story elements.

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A waste of time is still a waste of time, even if you pretend it was somehow useful.

There's no way for us to know whether these changes are sapping any development time away from the game itself; so again, it really just seems like being upset for the sake of being upset.

[Menog]

This from the person who concluded I was socially inept because I admitted to finding some of the jokes/flirts uncomfortable. Almost like they were downgrading me...

Wow, you should look in the mirror sometime.

I just asked a question.

But if you felt offended by the question now I can understand why you felt something when someone used /emotes on you.

[Mormonius]

Oh the irony.

So true!

What the hell... min of 10 characters... bs

[bloodkin]

We don't know the context behind the Consorts change so I think it's a bit unfair to put that on the same spectrum as story elements.

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There's no way for us to know whether these changes are sapping any development time away from the game itself; so again, it really just seems like being upset for the sake of being upset.

If you are going to regurgitate the same argument, you would save yourself some time by quoting your older posts.

It's truly naive to think that this doesn't cost development time: they need to go through every quest, npc and zone name and then rewrite whatever they don't like. All of this is done instead of writing new quests, lore etc.

[Sialina]

They aren't fixing as much as they are creating a game which reflects the current development team's values. You know, kind of like exactly what the official statement Blizzard released says.

I'll just have to disagree here, either your values permeate the entire product, or you leave them out all together.

It feels very strange when you can have a story about orcs committing genocide on the Draenei, using their souls
to fuel a portal and using their skeletons to build a road, brutality and humiliation beyond even what we've seen
in real life.
At the same time you can't have someone call an orc a greenskin because that's offensive. I don't think I have to
remind you that if greenskin hits too close to home, so should genocide.
It's also too mature to have a lewd joke in the game, against the "values" of the dev team, but completely fine to
murder and brainwash people in Bastion.

All this pulls me out of the story, I haven't liked it for a long time but it keeps getting worse.
Imagine reading a childrens book, which is the level we are at now with adult themes.
Then in the middle you get sudden brutal violence, I have to ask you, who can handle
brutally murdering someone, but not a joke about a schlong? And what is wrong with them?

Imagine reading this in a childrens book
"And then bunny went home from the tea party, bringing the 2 flowers she got from her
friend with her, as she crossed the meadow she murdered 4 birds in brutal fashion, put their
head on spikes, and threw their entrails on the ground, now she had dinner for tonight as well!"

[Menog]

No, but there's a definite trend in terms of actions. Namely: flipping shit and slinging insults because a few lines were removed, which somehow is supposed to qualify everyone else as "snowflakes."

Good to see that you draw no distinction between having bullshit called on the bullshit you're perpetuating with being "dehumanized" for "disagreeing." Says volumes about how well you handle disagreement.

It became an "us against them" decision the moment people started trotting out the ad-hom. Which, by the way, began with tirades against pronouns and "woke," and has continued more-or-less along those lines aside from the occasional foray into self-victimization (by the same people calling others "snowflakes," no less).

Speaking of which...

Oh my fucking God, you did not just compare being mocked to being genocided. Wow; and you accused @The Dark One of being unable to handle social interaction, and me of being unable to handle "disagreement." I think they call that "confession via accusation."

For one: you downgraded yourself when you resorted to ad-hom, and did so further when you doubled down on it.

For another: I wasn't addressing you, either; I was commenting on a greater trend. If you're so sensitive about being indirectly called out for contributing: maybe you shouldn't have done that.

And, finally: any rational standard by which my post is a "shard of nothingness" would qualify both this outburst of yours and your potshot at @The Dark One as "far into the negatives."

If you'd actually "figured out" anything (as opposed to just lashing out because your feelings were hurt), you'd realize that I'm not a "troll" at all, and that it's pretty priceless of you to play that card in the face of your own antics. But, y'know...go off or whatever.

Little so-and-so fuckin' Godwinned me for hurting their feelings. Oh, the irony.

you are correct on people calling you snowflake. I agree with that. the rest of your word salad I don't even care anymore. bleh

[Orby]

I don't think that's the right way to approach it, especially considering the very reason some of those things are in the game is specifically because those people were terrible human beings. Like I said elsewhere in this topic, these things shouldn't have been in the game in the first place. And if you've since grown a fond attachment to the high brow adult humor that is a fishing supply NPC named Master Baiter then, well, that's not really a WoW problem when it's removed, is it?

I don't think so, I think some of them would be changed for sure, I see some of these changes and go 'yea that's a little tacky, I see why that got removed or renamed'. But I do thing they could have given a slide to a lot of these things if the workplace had been more safer to begin with. It was confirmed that a lot of these changes were made because of the people involved with them. Its a case of if you can't be nice then no one gets to play with it. Which isnt bad, in these cases some of them I fully support but like 50% of them I am still like 'wha?" :P

[Kralljin]

We don't know the context behind the Consorts change so I think it's a bit unfair to put that on the same spectrum as story elements.

Considering they also changed the Maiden of Virtue trash in Karazhan as well as the Den of Mortal delight - where similiar logic applies, as all of those places are created / run by villains, i think the "context" here is the implict nature of them.

Disregarding that especially with the more recent changes, it becomes quite that the goal is to purge pretty much anything that can be seen as form of sexual implication.

And there we aren't even discussing elements that aren't even sexual in nature such as renaming "Enslave demon", silly changes that predate this entire debacle.

[bloodkin]

I'll just have to disagree here, either your values permeate the entire product, or you leave them out all together.

It feels very strange when you can have a story about orcs committing genocide on the Draenei, using their souls
to fuel a portal and using their skeletons to build a road, brutality and humiliation beyond even what we've seen
in real life.
At the same time you can't have someone call an orc a greenskin because that's offensive. I don't think I have to
remind you that if greenskin hits too close to home, so should genocide.
It's also too mature to have a lewd joke in the game, against the "values" of the dev team, but completely fine to
murder and brainwash people in Bastion.

All this pulls me out of the story, I haven't liked it for a long time but it keeps getting worse.
Imagine reading a childrens book, which is the level we are at now with adult themes.
Then in the middle you get sudden brutal violence, I have to ask you, who can handle
brutally murdering someone, but not a joke about a schlong? And what is wrong with them?

Imagine reading this in a childrens book
"And then bunny went home from the tea party, bringing the 2 flowers she got from her
friend with her, as she crossed the meadow she murdered 4 birds in brutal fashion, put their
head on spikes, and threw their entrails on the ground, now she had dinner for tonight as well!"

There's been a strange trend in western media for a long time now, where violence is still glorified to high heavens but sex and drugs are still censored, because somehow those themes are too adult even for most adults.

[Relapses]

If you are going to regurgitate the same argument, you would save yourself some time by quoting your older posts.

It's truly naive to think that this doesn't cost development time: they need to go through every quest, npc and zone name and then rewrite whatever they don't like. All of this is done instead of writing new quests, lore etc.

Again, unless you have insider knowledge with how Blizzard develops the game (you don't) there's no way to say that this is effectively taking anything away from the current development of the game. Moreover, this is the same argument people use when Blizzard adds anything to the game they don't like. (see: "Why does Blizzard add Blizzard store mounts to the game when they should be making the game gooder HUH?")

[Soikona]

There's been a strange trend in western media for a long time now, where violence is still glorified to high heavens but sex and drugs are still censored, because somehow those themes are too adult even for most adults.

I dunno if it’s western media, or just North American media. Compared to us EU’s, they are still very prune about anything sexual.

[Relapses]

Considering they also changed the Maiden of Virtue trash in Karazhan as well as the Den of Mortal delight - where similiar logic applies, as all of those places are created / run by villains, i think the "context" here is the implict nature of them.

Disregarding that especially with the more recent changes, it becomes quite that the goal is to purge pretty much anything that can be seen as form of sexual implication.

And there we aren't even discussing elements that aren't even sexual in nature such as renaming "Enslave demon", silly changes that predate this entire debacle.

We're still on the outside looking into a lot of these changes. There could be context behind some of the changes that we're missing which is why I don't think it's fair to use story elements from the game as a measuring stick against changes made to the game itself. Apples and oranges.

[Soikona]

Again, unless you have insider knowledge with how Blizzard develops the game (you don't) there's no way to say that this is effectively taking anything away from the current development of the game. Moreover, this is the same argument people use when Blizzard adds anything to the game they don't like. (see: "Why does Blizzard add Blizzard store mounts to the game when they should be making the game gooder HUH?")

Hold up, you think doing this doesn’t take them away from somewhere else? Unless they hired new people specifically for this (they didn’t), it’s the same people doing it. You can’t magically “make time”. Time is finite, and it’s taken from somewhere else to do this.

[Orby]

Old: Five seconds. I'm not kidding!
New: It's always over so quickly.

What? How? Like whats different about the two... it still means the same thing... can someone explain this to me lol.