Mega-Thread: Coronavirus Pandemic

[Tuor]

I'm sure if you mix the shit with other medications that are proven to help treat Covid, the results will show an improvement.

I was reading the newspaper like a month or two ago, and there was an article about some people that got invermectin here in Portugal, those that survived defend its usage, the fact, is that there isn't any statistical data for the usage of invermectin as a treatment for covid-19. Those that survived will defend it, but the med didn't seem to have increased the survival rate either.

[Forogil]

None at all!??! can't have that, it might help so we must test it clearly.

I leave those decisions to the medical professionals. Testing in petri dishes, and animal kidneys have found hope for ivermectin - but not for the shit you are peddling.

That doesn't mean it will work in humans; that's why they are doing actual studies with thousands of persons in them to check if it works or not; as smaller studies were inconclusive - or withdrawn for "ethical problems".

The "ethical problems" cited for one of the earlier studies seems to be a case of plagiarizing with faked data. Clearly that's not good evidence that the drug works.

[Forogil]

The early studies show it only works at lethal doses. AKA when you poison everything so the virus no longer has a host.

Some in vitro studies found that, but some studies on humans were more optimistic (even excluding the obvious fake ones) - as you don't give humans lethal doses in studies. I'm not saying that they are correct, but only that medical professionals are investigating it.

And the action isn't by directly killing the host, but by messing with cell membranes to make it harder for the virus to propagate - it's just that the cell membrane is kind of important for survival. Directly messing with the copying of RNA-viruses as the pill by Merck seems a lot safer in comparison.

[Zan15]

The change is actually more recent, as in the latest decade - but before this pandemic.

You should remember that we had MERS - Middle-Eastern Respiratory Syndrome - during this decade; which clearly is named after a region.

And we also had some other outbreaks (and of course lots of older diseases had outbreaks as well):
A major Zika outbreak in S. America, named after the Zika forest in Uganda.
And Japanese encephalitis outbreak in India.
And New Delhi metallo-beta-lactamase-producing Carbapenem-resistant enterobacteriaceae outbreak in Italy.

Two of these were named after the year 2000 (and three of them were named for one place and had the most recent outbreak elsewhere).

So, in 2015 WHO issued new naming rules - https://www.who.int/news/item/08-05-...tious-diseases - and covid-19 follow that.

Well MERS was more region based naming vs people/race. there is a difference between "Asian virus and Chinese virus", "South American plague vs Mexican Plague" . I don't think either should be used but region based naming intent is not to place blame on a specific group of people or a race.


Also not sure why bring up the other examples, Zika was from the 40-50s, Japanese encephalitis was from 1870-1880s, and "New Delhi is not Indian metmetallo-beta-lactamase-producing Carbapenem-resistant enterobacteriaceaeallo".

But i guess you make somewhat of a point they have not been on the ball till very recent and was doing well before Trump and his sheep took up the challenge .

[Forogil]

Bullshit. I haven't seen a single human study that showed any statistical impact. Prove me wrong by linking one or two. You say some, clearly you have multiple sources.

The issue isn't so much whether they show statistical impact (which I didn't claim), but whether the studies were done correctly (or used the correct statistical analysis - study protocols are made to avoid the normal p-hacking).

So, if you change to reliable in humans showing significant impact the answer would be no, I don't have any.

Look at: https://ebm.bmj.com/content/early/20...bm-2021-111678 that list several studies that claim to show benefits, but that are unreliable for various reasons - including lack of peer-review and other issues. That's a general problem in medical studies, we get conflicting result from studies for various reasons.

That's why having a larger study, especially in a country such as the US, might settle the issue.

Added: Obviously you shouldn't take ivermectin for covid based on such flimsy data.

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Well MERS was more region based naming vs people/race.

MERS was one of the exampled cited by WHO in 2015 when they introduced the new naming (the other was swine flu), and I'm not sure but I think covid-19 was the first (major) disease using the new scheme.

"New Delhi is not Indian metmetallo-beta-lactamase-producing Carbapenem-resistant enterobacteriaceaeallo".

Using a smaller region is also problematic, that's why WHO changed to the Greek letter naming of variant; whereas previously one was called the Kent-variant (in the UK at least).

[Edge-]

So, if you change to reliable in humans showing significant impact the answer would be no, I don't have any.

That's kinda the key thing. There's no credible data/studies to suggest this, which is why we keep telling you that it's useless for humans as far as we know.

Even fucking Merck, the company that makes the stuff, says there's no meaningful evidence that it does shit.

Sure, let's get some good quality trials and data and all (which from what I've seen the better quality studies still largely conclude, "Nope, doesn't do shit at all.") but until we have at least some credible evidence that it does anything, we're gonna keep telling you it's currently useless.

And mock people for taking horse dewormers.

[Forogil]

That's kinda the key thing. There's no credible data/studies to suggest this, which is why we keep telling you that it's useless for humans as far as we know.

I'm saying that I know that it's not shown to be effective, and you shouldn't take it.

This failure to distinguish between not known if effective, and known to be ineffective hasn't always been clear.

In both cases what you should do is the same at the moment (don't take it), but when new data comes in the former can more easily change and thus the advice changes.

You see how that is now the case in the US for other previous advice - and that is feeding into the already low trust of the government among some; and creating a vicious cycle since the government feels it need to strengthen the advice - and thus cannot handle such differences.

And mock people for taking horse dewormers.

That's only relevant for the veterinary variant, for the other one: are you also mocking people for taking a drug against "Fat Cow Syndrome" for covid?

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Yeah, thus far you’ve linked obviously problematic(i.e. fake) studies. Go ahead and link the quality ones you’ve got.

One study seems like a clear fake, the others seem more unclear. One of the problems is that it is hard to judge the quality of science in e.g. Pakistan and Egypt.

And I'm exactly saying that there aren't any high-quality studies showing the benefit.

And you did claim a statistically significant study. That’s what it means for an in human study to be more optimistic.

A non-significant result can also give rise to optimism.

[JohnBrown1917]

I leave those decisions to the medical professionals. Testing in petri dishes, and animal kidneys have found hope for ivermectin - but not for the shit you are peddling.

That doesn't mean it will work in humans; that's why they are doing actual studies with thousands of persons in them to check if it works or not; as smaller studies were inconclusive - or withdrawn for "ethical problems".

The "ethical problems" cited for one of the earlier studies seems to be a case of plagiarizing with faked data. Clearly that's not good evidence that the drug works.

Yeah, they clearly have not done proper testing then, i'll mail them a bag of my shit for testing. I heard people say its the best shit, truly amazing shit they say.

[Rasulis]

San Francisco eased up its indoor mask mandate starting last Friday. Fully vaccinated individuals can now go unmasked in offices, gyms and certain other settings with the following restrictions.

• The host, employer or organizer has verified all individuals are fully vaccinated.
• No more than 100 people are present.
• The setting is not open to the general public.
• A list of all individuals present is maintained.

Apparently some people were pretty eager about getting back into the office. Several dozens workers showed up at Fast office in SoMa on Friday.

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Vaccination in San Francisco is still creeping up - 83% of eligible residents are fully vaccinated, 89% eligible residents with at least one dose.

[Hollycakes]

Stay classy MTG.

[Forogil]

Not in science.

Science doesn't really with optimism, but scientist does - and they can be optimistic even for not statistically significant results. (And as a side-note that's one reason why studies should at least be double-blind.)

However, there seems to be at least two statistically significant not-yet-withdrawn references in the list, so no need to argue about that: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1....06.20124461v2 https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33983065/
But, there are other important problems with those studies (lack of good peer-review and study protocols I understand), and even if statistically significant it's not like the vaccines or Merck's new pill that give such massive benefits that you don't have to check whether it is statistically significant.

Thus it makes sense to investigate ivermectin further, but certainly not recommend it at the moment (and the veterinary variant isn't for humans).

[PACOX]

Stay classy MTG.

She is of the same mind of people who don't think athletes should play if they don't cross their heart and cry during the national anthem, though.

[Ursus]

Stay classy MTG.

Her comparison is even more baseless than it appears at first glance. The NBA does not have a vaccine mandate. It's not the NBA who is saying Kyrie Irving can't play. It's the Brooklyn Nets who suspended him because he wouldn't be allowed to play in literally over half the team's games. He wouldn't be allowed to play any home games due to NYC's mandate, and there are other NBA cities who have similar mandates so he wouldn't be allowed to play in some away games either.

MTG wants to force a company (the Brooklyn Nets) to employ a worker who wouldn't even be able to work over half the time due to that worker's own selfish decision. That's not very pro-business of her.

[Rasulis]

She is of the same mind of people who don't think athletes should play if they don't cross their heart and cry during the national anthem, though.

GOP still hasn't found the bottom in their race to the bottom.

Meanwhile, cases, hospitalizations and deaths are going down. However, some US states are still being overwhelmed.

Oklahoma doctors called 40 hospitals to find an ICU bed for a COVID-19 patient with internal bleeding. None of them had space and he died.

Somehow, TX covid deaths managed to get within 1,500 less than CA covid deaths.

[Elegiac]

Yeah exactly this. Its the NYC mandate that forced Kyrie to have to miss out on all home games and practice, and the Nets basically said they don't want a part-time player, especially since this team was literally built around him/KD and Hardin.

Kyrie is a selfish fool who is trying his best to grandstand just because he is an attention whore. Just like most of these other anti-vax morons leaving their job and making a stink about it.

But imagine a republican arguing about something they know nothing about...

Republicans are really telling on themselves when they get upset about this shit when... you know... the whole Kaepernick thing.

[Edge-]

and I thought basketball players are supposed to just shut up and dribble?

As long as they're saying things we agree with*

It's weird how like, they hate movie stars but also love their ex-movie star B/C-list celebrities desperately clinging to relevance.

It's weird how like, they hate sports starts until they find one they agree with and then suddenly everyone should listen.

Really, I think we need Ja Rule's take on this. How can we survive without knowing the opinion of Ja?

[Tommi]

Getting my 3rd 5G injection soon!



2nd one gave me awesome 5G speeds.

[Edge-]

2nd one gave me awesome 5G speeds.

Your mobile internet is lightyears better than my wired internet (or my 5G) and I am now sad.

Seriously, I feel like I might have standing to sue the folks that told me that the vaccine would make me a 5G tower booster. That's like, at least 10% of the reason why I got the vaccine and I'm pretty fuckin bummed that it had zero effect : (

[Tommi]

Your mobile internet is lightyears better than my wired internet (or my 5G) and I am now sad.

Seriously, I feel like I might have standing to sue the folks that told me that the vaccine would make me a 5G tower booster. That's like, at least 10% of the reason why I got the vaccine and I'm pretty fuckin bummed that it had zero effect : (

Mate, this is my home internet.



I can't get the 5G inside the house, but I can go 20 metres outside and get it fine.

[Edge-]

I can't get the 5G inside the house, but I can go 20 metres outside and get it fine.

Did the tree in your yard get the vaccine too or something?