Alec Baldwin fires prop gun on movie set, killing cinematographer

[MCMLXXXII]

I wonder what this thread would look like when Alec Baldwin was replaced with Charlton Heston.

[Elegiac]

I wonder what this thread would look like when Alec Baldwin was replaced with Charlton Heston.

"He was just exercising his 2A rights!"

[postman1782]

"He was just exercising his 2A rights!"

Don't forget, they would claim that the person getting shot, probably deserved it.

[PACOX]

Don't forget, they would claim that the person getting shot, probably deserved it.

By pulling up something the person did in the 2nd grade.

Then they would cry 'cancel culture' when the production company is sued for negligance.

[Gaidax]

It is a tragic accident, that all.

Maybe it will lead to better safety control to prevent these in future, but it's not the first nor the last time it happened, so might not even be that.

[s_bushido]

I wonder what this thread would look like when Alec Baldwin was replaced with Charlton Heston.

I'm sure there would be plenty of jokes at the expense of gun nuts. Someone would still be dead for no good reason, though.

[Machismo]

Undergoing some training does not mean you have to become an expert, but to know how to act in a cockpit and in this case, check the ammo in the gun handed to you.

Once again, this is a bad narrative.

A major concern with firearms in a situation like this would be chain of custody. The expert would want as few people as possible to handle the firearm, and wouldn't want inexperienced people manipulating the actions.

If I were the expert on scene, I'd load it myself, verify, and keep it in my custody until handing it to the person who would fire it. This isnt about teaching someone weapons handling, this is about an expert ensuring safety in an environment.

[Specialka]

Once again, this is a bad narrative.

A major concern with firearms in a situation like this would be chain of custody. The expert would want as few people as possible to handle the firearm, and wouldn't want inexperienced people manipulating the actions.

If I were the expert on scene, I'd load it myself, verify, and keep it in my custody until handing it to the person who would fire it. This isnt about teaching someone weapons handling, this is about an expert ensuring safety in an environment.

Yeah cute. You would still not give me a gun and ask me to shoot it without me checking the ammo. But you do you.

[Mihalik]

Negligence meets mens rea requirements

For the 3rd time in a row.

The actor handed a prepared prop is not liable for negligence as the preparation of the prop is not his fucking responsibility.

Prop departments and firearm safety experts exist for a reason, unless you fucking suggest that every single extra and actor in every goddamn movie that uses a gun should be required to be a certified expert who is also liable for the safety and chain of custody of every prop he uses.

You understand that such requirements would make nearly all action scenes in film making impossible?

You are being intentionally obtuse here, you keep throwing out one liners without addressing the reality and logistics of film making.

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Military training by its nature will require some safety exceptions. If a live round is fired by "accident", yes the Marine should be charged in accordance with the UCMJ

Film making by its nature requires some exception. THAT'S WHY PROP DEPARTMENTS AND FIREARMS EXPERTS EXIST.

[Ursus]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alec-b...chins-shooting

Apparently the armorer who was working on the movie was very inexperienced and it was only her second movie as the head armorer. Crew members on the previous movie she worked on had raised a few concerns about her, in particular that she gave a gun to an 11-year-old actress without following protocols to make sure it was safe, and also that she loaded blanks into the guns in an unsafe manner.

Anyone who thinks Alec Baldwin is going to be held criminally responsible in his role as an actor is an idiot at best and a partisan hack at worst.

Now it is very possible that he may be held civilly responsible in his role as a producer if it turns out that hiring this extremely inexperienced armorer or other cost-cutting measures can be shown to have played a role in what happened.

[Hobb]

For the 3rd time in a row.

The actor handed a prepared prop is not liable for negligence as the preparation of the prop is not his fucking responsibility.

Prop departments and firearm safety experts exist for a reason, unless you fucking suggest that every single extra and actor in every goddamn movie that uses a gun should be required to be a certified expert who is also liable for the safety and chain of custody of every prop he uses.

You understand that such requirements would make nearly all action scenes in film making impossible?

You are being intentionally obtuse here, you keep throwing out one liners without addressing the reality and logistics of film making.

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Film making by its nature requires some exception. THAT'S WHY PROP DEPARTMENTS AND FIREARMS EXPERTS EXIST.

You know the only reason Thwart and Specialka are trying to make an issue out of tragic accident is because it involves Alex Baldwin who made fun of their Lord and Savior Trump. If it involved anyone else they would just ignore it and move on.

They are correct on one point, proper gun safety inspections were not followed. Just not in their false narrative by directing the blame at Alex Baldwin.

As you said it's a movie set, not a gun range and different safety protocols are in place. All fire arms used in a movie are to be inspected twice before being handed to the actor for use. First by the fire arms expert the armour and second in this case the second director.

And that's where the real blame is with, the second director. The second director didn't do the second required inspection nor listened to the armour as to which guns in the prop tray were which. The second director is the reason the three prop folk walked off the job, because he wasn't following established safety protocol.

Apparently the second director also has a history of not following safety protocols at all.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/24/enter...nts/index.html
https://news.yahoo.com/rust-assistan...050000887.html

[Endus]

Maybe that's what safety protocol is on a gunrange or when hunting, which I assume is the beginning and end of most of the gun experience posters on these forums here have for their little hobby. But it should be obvious from... watching any movie or TV show, ever, that that's clearly not how guns are treated on set. As gleaned from a guy who's job it is to manage such things in regards to TV and film production.

Worse; gun ranges take zero responsibility for the weapons used there or the people using them. They may have rules you have to abide by, but breaking the rules will just get you kicked out and maybe banned, it doesn't mean the range suddenly becomes responsible, because they never held any responsibility for your firearm use.

The same is not true on a film set. Where that responsibility lies with the head armorer.

Undergoing some training does not mean you have to become an expert, but to know how to act in a cockpit and in this case, check the ammo in the gun handed to you.

That would be a safety violation, on a film set. They hire an expert, a head armorer, who does all those checks, knowing far more than any actor would. An actor checking the weapon themselves invalidates the head armorer's checks, giving an opportunity for the actor to change things somehow and create undue risks.

The same way actors don't double-check the demolition team's explosives setups. Because they do not have the expertise to do so.

You people seriously have no clue what you're talking about, and you're only doing this because of a partisan political desire to shit on an actor who famously mocked Donald Trump. That's it. That's the only reason you're lying like this.

[Machismo]

Yeah cute. You would still not give me a gun and ask me to shoot it without me checking the ammo. But you do you.

Once again, if I'm the one responsible, I'm going to ensure proper chain of custody. Actors are not necessarily experienced in the proper handling of firearms. They're fucking actors.

You are simply positing an unreasonable scenario.

[Specialka]

Worse; gun ranges take zero responsibility for the weapons used there or the people using them. They may have rules you have to abide by, but breaking the rules will just get you kicked out and maybe banned, it doesn't mean the range suddenly becomes responsible, because they never held any responsibility for your firearm use.

The same is not true on a film set. Where that responsibility lies with the head armorer.



That would be a safety violation, on a film set. They hire an expert, a head armorer, who does all those checks, knowing far more than any actor would. An actor checking the weapon themselves invalidates the head armorer's checks, giving an opportunity for the actor to change things somehow and create undue risks.

The same way actors don't double-check the demolition team's explosives setups. Because they do not have the expertise to do so.

You people seriously have no clue what you're talking about, and you're only doing this because of a partisan political desire to shit on an actor who famously mocked Donald Trump. That's it. That's the only reason you're lying like this.

I did not even know he mocked Trump before people make it political on this very thread xD. But again, not surprised those people would make it political. Here I thought you were all for people being accountable for their actions.

[Kaleredar]

I did not even know he mocked Trump before people make it political on this very thread xD. But again, not surprised those people would make it political. Here I thought you were all for people being accountable for their actions.

He’s no more responsible in his role as actor than a racecar driver would be if his pit crew improperly changed a tire, told him it was safe, and it flew off in the middle of the race and into the crowd, harming people.

Or should the driver have crawled out of the car to double-check their work in the middle of the race?

Your personal feelings on gun safety simply aren’t relevant. There are existing protocols in the film industry for how firearms are to be handled, and they work far more often than “personal accountability” does, as evidenced by the almost nonexistent number of harmful firearm discharges on a film set per year versus the literal thousands of injuries and hundreds of deaths per year from accidental shootings in the United States at large.

Simply put those protocols were not followed properly. And no one with any actual authority or experience on the matter has weighed in saying that Alec failed in his role as an actor.

[Specialka]

He’s no more responsible in his role as actor than a racecar driver would be if his pit crew improperly changed a tire, told him it was safe, and it flew off in the middle of the race and into the crowd, harming people.

Or should the driver have crawled out of the car to double-check their work in the middle of the race?

Your personal feelings on gun safety simply aren’t relevant. There are existing protocols in the film industry for how firearms are to be handled, and they work far more often than “personal accountability” does, as evidenced by the almost nonexistent number of harmful firearm discharges on a film set per year versus the literal thousands of injuries and hundreds of deaths per year from accidental shootings in the United States at large.

Simply put those protocols were not followed properly. And no one with any actual authority or experience on the matter has weighed in saying that Alec failed in his role as an actor.

As far as I know, they were not competing against anyone so he had time to check the ammo.

[Hobb]

Look like they are getting ready to charge the one responsible, Dave Halls with negligent homicide.

[Endus]

I did not even know he mocked Trump before people make it political on this very thread xD. But again, not surprised those people would make it political. Here I thought you were all for people being accountable for their actions.

I am.

That's why I pointed to the ones responsible.

The armory team of the second director, or both.

Not Baldwin.

Who has no "accountability" in this circumstance. Nothing he did was untoward.

[Kaleredar]

As far as I know, they were not competing against anyone so he had time to check the ammo.

It's simply not Baldwin's job to do so.

[Specialka]

It's simply not Baldwin's job to do so.

Not his job but still his responsability as someone handling a gun