Who will lead the Alliance Post-Shadowlands?

[Varodoc]

This seems like a natural evolution of that discussion on who the "Next Warmonger" is going to be; to determine that, we first have to understand who will lead the Alliance in 10.0: will Anduin return as High King or will Turalyon fully assume the role of High King (right now he's just Regent)?

I can see arguments for both sides frankly. Realistically I don't think the Alliance, so virtuous and righteous, would let Anduin resume his duties scots-free after being corrupted and twisted by Satan. We also know Turalyon has the full support of the House of Nobles and is a great war hero and legend of the Alliance, so he might simply be pushed to assume command completely.

At the same time though Blizzard loves Manduin so they might just ignore the fact that the Alliance should be [Rightfully and Logically] suspicious of Anduin, since he was mind-controlled by Satan

But even without the Janitor, it would seem that Anduin's public image is starting to crack somewhat, with some citizens criticizing his decision to make an armistice with the Horde at the end of BfA, and others starting to realize that it was Anduin who set War Criminal Saurfang free (reminder that Saurfang helped the Lich Queen orchestrate the War of Thorns). Now if someone leaked that Anduin set Saurfang free, I don't think the Alliance would react well.

Also I think Turalyon is way more interesting and compelling than Blanduin but that might be my bias

There might also be some Other outcome that I didn't consider.

[shoc]

Turalyon is literally physically occupying the Alliance leadership position right now, the story just hasn't shone the spotlight on him yet. I think it's quite clear that they have been building him up as a radical tyrant since Legion, with the reveal of the authoritarian nature of serving the Naaru. Plus, he's a thousand years old, and spent 99.5% of his life serving the Army of Light against the Legion, it's a surprise that he's even able to stop fighting at all. His time on Azeroth was punctuated by clean cut lines between 'good' and 'evil' and in a true right-wing conservative villain moment might try to claw back to 'good old days' he is familiar with. Given he's modeled after Clint Eastwood, a proper jerk.

[Zuben]

I don't think Turalyon can replace Anduin completely. He may hold sway in Stormwind's circles, but the general Alliance still holds Anduin as the High King. Velen, Genn and Jaina are definitely his confidantes, and even Tyrande has mellowed down from her rage. No idea what the dwarves and gnomes think, but they didn't suffer as much in the Blood War, so I don't think they're that pissed about the armistice. Mechagnomes probably go with whatever their fleshier brothers choose.

So besides Stormwind (if it goes that route, mostly because of the DK thing), I would see only Void elves and Lightforged Draenei supporting Turalyon's claim. Which is enough for a Lordaeron campaign. Well, Danath's Arathi forces would likely also get in on that. Genn would not support Turalyon's claim to ascending to the actual throne, but he would join the campaign, since he wants Gilneas back.

So on Alliance side we'd have:
- Stormwind, led by Turalyon.
- Arathi forces (Arathor? Stromgarde? What are they called?), led by Danath.
- Ren'dorei, led by Alleria and Umbric.
- Lightforged draenei, led by that lady draenei whose name escapes me.
- Gilneas worgen, led by Genn, though focused only on Gilneas.
- Well, maybe Crowley/Bloodfang forces in Silverpine too, as wasn't Fenris Keep taken by them?

Horde side we'd definitely have the sin'dorei and Forsaken, who would be aided by some Horde forces. Orc Sea Dogs in Silverpine :3 Loved that part in Cataclysm.

Though I think should a Lordaeron campaign happen it will be before Anduin even gets back to Stormwind. Getting rehabilitated from his current condition will probably take some time and expertise from the denizens of the Shadowlands. Right now, in his absence, Turalyon is the de facto leader of Alliance forces, so if he wants to march north he can do so. It's just that because he still isn't actually the High King I believe the rest of the Alliance can refuse to partake.

At this point I don't want to speculate on the aftermath of a Lordaeron campaign. Way too early for that.

[Feanoro]

Turalyon is literally physically occupying the Alliance leadership position right now, the story just hasn't shone the spotlight on him yet. I think it's quite clear that they have been building him up as a radical tyrant since Legion, with the reveal of the authoritarian nature of serving the Naaru. Plus, he's a thousand years old, and spent 99.5% of his life serving the Army of Light against the Legion, it's a surprise that he's even able to stop fighting at all. His time on Azeroth was punctuated by clean cut lines between 'good' and 'evil' and in a true right-wing conservative villain moment might try to claw back to 'good old days' he is familiar with. Given he's modeled after Clint Eastwood, a proper jerk.

Sadly, this wouldn't surprise me. The writers are clearly pushing their IRL views and it's painfully obvious which way those views go.

[Varitok]

Sadly, this wouldn't surprise me. The writers are clearly pushing their IRL views and it's painfully obvious which way those views go.

Can you guys stop posting this shit every thread?

[ohwell]

Can you guys stop posting this shit every thread?

I mean look at what the guy he replied to posted as well...oh wait too blind to what's in front of you.

[Feanoro]

Can you guys stop posting this shit every thread?

Enjoying those bowls of fruit, eh?

[Varodoc]

Turalyon is literally physically occupying the Alliance leadership position right now, the story just hasn't shone the spotlight on him yet. I think it's quite clear that they have been building him up as a radical tyrant since Legion, with the reveal of the authoritarian nature of serving the Naaru. Plus, he's a thousand years old, and spent 99.5% of his life serving the Army of Light against the Legion, it's a surprise that he's even able to stop fighting at all. His time on Azeroth was punctuated by clean cut lines between 'good' and 'evil' and in a true right-wing conservative villain moment might try to claw back to 'good old days' he is familiar with. Given he's modeled after Clint Eastwood, a proper jerk.

I disagree completely and I don't know why some people here think Turalyon is a tyrant. He's actually very calm and relaxed when it comes to Faith, ESPECIALLY compared to Yrel and the Lightbound. Proof of this is that in the end he did cooperate with Illidan after he destroyed Xe'ra in front of him.

Yrel and the Lightbound go around indoctrinating anyone who is not sharing the faith of the Light, the Scarlet Crusade wanted to slaughter all non-humans, meanwhile Turalyon works closely with the Ren'dorei and no doubt appreciate Bolvar's assistance in saving Anduin. He's far from a zealot.

I don't think Turalyon is going to become "Light Nazi" like some people (mostly Horde players) think, but I do believe he might start some tensions due to his desire to rebuild certain Alliance strongholds in Lordaeron.

But why some people think Turalyon is a jerk, I do not know He has legit been doing nothing since 7.3...

If Turalyon was a jerk he would have used the Vindicaar to target civilian targets during the Fourth War instead he was literally afk the entire time (oh no sorry he fought some grunts at Stromgarde).

- - - Updated - - -

I don't think Turalyon can replace Anduin completely. He may hold sway in Stormwind's circles, but the general Alliance still holds Anduin as the High King. Velen, Genn and Jaina are definitely his confidantes, and even Tyrande has mellowed down from her rage. No idea what the dwarves and gnomes think, but they didn't suffer as much in the Blood War, so I don't think they're that pissed about the armistice. Mechagnomes probably go with whatever their fleshier brothers choose.

So besides Stormwind (if it goes that route, mostly because of the DK thing), I would see only Void elves and Lightforged Draenei supporting Turalyon's claim. Which is enough for a Lordaeron campaign. Well, Danath's Arathi forces would likely also get in on that. Genn would not support Turalyon's claim to ascending to the actual throne, but he would join the campaign, since he wants Gilneas back.

So on Alliance side we'd have:
- Stormwind, led by Turalyon.
- Arathi forces (Arathor? Stromgarde? What are they called?), led by Danath.
- Ren'dorei, led by Alleria and Umbric.
- Lightforged draenei, led by that lady draenei whose name escapes me.
- Gilneas worgen, led by Genn, though focused only on Gilneas.
- Well, maybe Crowley/Bloodfang forces in Silverpine too, as wasn't Fenris Keep taken by them?

Horde side we'd definitely have the sin'dorei and Forsaken, who would be aided by some Horde forces. Orc Sea Dogs in Silverpine :3 Loved that part in Cataclysm.

Though I think should a Lordaeron campaign happen it will be before Anduin even gets back to Stormwind. Getting rehabilitated from his current condition will probably take some time and expertise from the denizens of the Shadowlands. Right now, in his absence, Turalyon is the de facto leader of Alliance forces, so if he wants to march north he can do so. It's just that because he still isn't actually the High King I believe the rest of the Alliance can refuse to partake.

At this point I don't want to speculate on the aftermath of a Lordaeron campaign. Way too early for that.

Well Turalyon is a legendary hero of the Alliance, everyone respects him. Turalyon was the original founder of the Alliance of Lordaeron actually, the one who rallied the Seven Kingdoms and convinced them to ally, and he was also Lothar's successor, who finished what he started. He defeated the Horde, rebuilt Stormwind (keeping its throne safe until Varian was able to rule), and then led the expedition to Outlands to finish the Horde remnants.

Turalyon is for all intents and purposes the biggest hero in the Alliance, perhaps second only to Varian himself. Depending on how much weight you give to his final sacrifice at Broken Shore.

Regardless I can see most of the Alliance backing him due to his reputation, and for lack of alternative really.

And no doubt Alleria would support him...

Since that would make her High Queen technically

Also it should be noted that Yes, Velen, Greymane, and Jaina are like family to Anduin, and it is precisely for that reason that they might realize going back to the throne might be bad for Anduin's health. He needs a vacation after getting mind-tortured by Satan for 2 years.

And really I think that most leaders who were there in the Second War (Greymane, Council of Three Hammers, Mekkatorque, Danath) would fully support Turalyon. Velen and Tyrande would support Turalyon if anything because he's ancient like they are, and is a proven defender of the Cosmos.

Turalyon fought the Legion for thousands of years, certainly the Draenei and Night elves would reward that.

[Zuben]

I disagree completely and I don't know why some people here think Turalyon is a tyrant. He's actually very calm and relaxed when it comes to Faith, ESPECIALLY compared to Yrel and the Lightbound. Proof of this is that in the end he did cooperate with Illidan after he destroyed Xe'ra in front of him.

Yrel and the Lightbound go around indoctrinating anyone who is not sharing the faith of the Light, the Scarlet Crusade wanted to slaughter all non-humans, meanwhile Turalyon works closely with the Ren'dorei and no doubt appreciate Bolvar's assistance in saving Anduin. He's far from a zealot.

I don't think Turalyon is going to become "Light Nazi" like some people (mostly Horde players) think, but I do believe he might start some tensions due to his desire to rebuild certain Alliance strongholds in Lordaeron.

But why some people think Turalyon is a jerk, I do not know He has legit been doing nothing since 7.3...

If Turalyon was a jerk he would have used the Vindicaar to target civilian targets during the Fourth War instead he was literally afk the entire time (oh no sorry he fought some grunts at Stromgarde).

I think people label him a potential Light villain, because he's a prominent Light-affiliated character and the writing is on the wall we're due for a Tyranny Of The Light expansion at some point. Yrel can't carry that shit all by herself.

A counterpoint to that is that the Lightforged can't be part of the villain faction as they're a playable race, which should warrant some protection to Turalyon as well as he's closely affiliated with them. Anyhow, if the next expansion is about more down to earth stories as Chilton implied it won't probably do more than subtly build up towards the Light stuff, meaning if Turalyon is compromised he won't go full-Nazi at least in the near future.

[Varodoc]

I think people label him a potential Light villain, because he's a prominent Light-affiliated character and the writing is on the wall we're due for a Tyranny Of The Light expansion at some point. Yrel can't carry that shit all by herself.

A counterpoint to that is that the Lightforged can't be part of the villain faction as they're a playable race, which should warrant some protection to Turalyon as well as he's closely affiliated with them. Anyhow, if the next expansion is about more down to earth stories as Chilton implied it won't probably do more than subtly build up towards the Light stuff, meaning if Turalyon is compromised he won't go full-Nazi at least in the near future.

Yep, that's the same argument I use to shut down any notion that Alleria will become a villain.

If that were to happen, who would the Ren'dorei be left with? Magister Umbric? He can't compare. Same thing with the Lightforged. Without Turalyon, they are left with Captain Fareeya. So who?

Also it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard just made up a new set of Light deities entirely and added more Naaru, Yrel doesn't have to carry the expansion by herself. We know that the Lightbound are actually doing AU Xe'ra's purpose, she's giving Yrel visions and manipulating her.

I think at this point people are so crazy to have an "Alliance villain", thinking that this somehow fixes MoP and BfA, that they genuinely can't see that Turalyon is genuinely a good man, not a zealot.

[Zuben]

Well Turalyon is a legendary hero of the Alliance, everyone respects him. Turalyon was the original founder of the Alliance of Lordaeron actually, the one who rallied the Seven Kingdoms and convinced them to ally, and he was also Lothar's successor, who finished what he started. He defeated the Horde, rebuilt Stormwind (keeping its throne safe until Varian was able to rule), and then led the expedition to Outlands to finish the Horde remnants.

Turalyon is for all intents and purposes the biggest hero in the Alliance, perhaps second only to Varian himself. Depending on how much weight you give to his final sacrifice at Broken Shore.

Regardless I can see most of the Alliance backing him due to his reputation, and for lack of alternative really.

And no doubt Alleria would support him...

Since that would make her High Queen technically

Also it should be noted that Yes, Velen, Greymane, and Jaina are like family to Anduin, and it is precisely for that reason that they might realize going back to the throne might be bad for Anduin's health. He needs a vacation after getting mind-tortured by Satan for 2 years.

And really I think that most leaders who were there in the Second War (Greymane, Council of Three Hammers, Mekkatorque, Danath) would fully support Turalyon. Velen and Tyrande would support Turalyon if anything because he's ancient like they are, and is a proven defender of the Cosmos.

Turalyon fought the Legion for thousands of years, certainly the Draenei and Night elves would reward that.

The Alliance of Lordaeron is something precious really to those who were part of it, meaning it works in Turalyon's benefit for original EK races only. Even then it's been a long time since those days and Anduin is a pretty loved king. So I don't think usurping the throne is what Turalyon will do in the near future, but rather make use of his power as temporary commander to strengthen the Alliance's holdings up north.

That campaign can lead to further political developments, but I think by that time Anduin has recuperated and returns to Stormwind. In that case we might be in for a major inner politics story for the Alliance, which, with Blizzard's writers, might escalate into something you might not like. All in all I don't think Turalyon will replace Anduin as Alliance's leader for good.

Yep, that's the same argument I use to shut down any notion that Alleria will become a villain.

If that were to happen, who would the Ren'dorei be left with? Magister Umbric? He can't compare. Same thing with the Lightforged. Without Turalyon, they are left with Captain Fareeya. So who?

Also it wouldn't surprise me if Blizzard just made up a new set of Light deities entirely and added more Naaru, Yrel doesn't have to carry the expansion by herself. We know that the Lightbound are actually doing AU Xe'ra's purpose, she's giving Yrel visions and manipulating her.

I think at this point people are so crazy to have an "Alliance villain", thinking that this somehow fixes MoP and BfA, that they genuinely can't see that Turalyon is genuinely a good man, not a zealot.

Umbric and Fareeya would actually be prominent enough to lead their racial factions. Compare to the sin'dorei, who still had Kael when they were added to the game, but he actually wasn't the faction's leader but instead Lor'themar, who was pretty much a non-entity until MoP. Darkspear trolls didn't have any prominence until Vol'jin was developed in MoP, and now they have Rokhan, who's at the level of Umbric/Fareeya. Mag'har have Geya'rah, who's only there because someone has to be. Alleria and Turalyon are more independent characters, who don't have to carry the weight of a racial faction on their shoulders.

But I think Turalyon's affiliation to the Lightforged still matters, because since they can't be villains they'd have to oppose Yrel. If Turalyon sided with Yrel he would have to be against them. Not that it's impossible, considering Blizzard writers' hamfisted ways with logic. Hell, I already thought of a scenario: Slow shift. The initial introduction of the Lightbound to Azeroth might be diplomatic enough to warrant some Alliance cooperation, in which case Turalyon and the Lightforged would both affiliate with the Lightbound. When the push finally comes to shove is when lines will be drawn and at least the bulk of the Lightforged will back down, while some may join/be forcefully added to the Lightbound, and Turalyon will do what he will.

I don't know which way he'd go. The thing with the Light is that it's in dire need of celebrity power. Legion had Gul'dan, Kil'jaeden, Archimonde, Mannoroth, the various dreadlords and Sargeras himself. Void had Deathwing, Cho'gall, the Old Gods and everyone it managed to corrupt. Light has the naaru, who are proven to be glass cannons at best. They'd fill a role in the Light expansion, but there needs to be celebrities, which currently means just Yrel.

And one other thing with the Light expansion: Anduin is a prominent fan of the Light too. When the bad side of the Light becomes the main plot he'd be the natural good side protagonist, because of course he would. After all this DK stuff there's no way Shadow will corrupt him despite being teased in Shadows Rising. In that sense Turalyon would not only be his opponent for the throne of Alliance but also in the Light, should he choose the Lightbound. Anduin's slight knack for Shadow might even work against him when Light-worshippers choose their sides.

[cocomen2]

And where is option F)?


F) Sylvanas going back to be good girl and becomes leader of High elfs on Alliance side, and maybe later High Queen of it.

You know she is good leader since her 5D chess plan played out into PERFECTION:
1) Forsaken (zombies,enemy of all) that served her, still "alive" and not wiped by Horde nor Alliance - CHECK
2) Anduin still alive and can be used to get advantage as spy or enemy of my enemy - CHECK
3) Arthas still dead and feeds fish - CHECK
4) By defacto she helped Night elfs to go back to their roots, and be useful for Elune - CHECK
5) She got her soul piece from literal Satan, back, and Jailer was not able to predict that they would not execute her, so she outplayed him - CHECK

[BaumanKing]

As much as I want Turalyon to become Varian 2.0 cause I miss MoP with strong leaders in both Alliance and Horde, this won't happen. He will reign for a while after SL because Anduin won't be available due to PTSD or something. But gradually Turalyon and Alleria will become more antagonistic, so Anduin will overthrow them and regain his rightful throne in the end. Blizzard writers have said on several occasions that Anduin is bassically the main character of WoW, so he will rule again.

But it would be shocking if, contrary to popular theories, Turalyon's rule will actually bring peace and prosperity to the Alliance. And so the House of Nobles will choose him over Anduin.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Realistically there is no other for Turalyon to lead the alliance unless anduin steps down and promotes him.

If he try’s a forceful take over even with the support of stormwind nobles every other alliance faction will oppose him other then the light forged and void elfs.

The night elfs likely don’t know or care about much WC1-2 stuff and both of there leaders support anduin (presuming tyranda calm down for good).

The Moria is ah anduin fan girl and has been the full leader of the dwarfs in all but name for a while.

Velan isn’t as light focused after hanging out with Illidan and has already had visions of anduin leading into old age.

Genn sees anduin as a replacement son and obviously doesn’t care to much about the WC1-2 stuff given that he built that wall.

Mechatork wouldn’t support a hostile take over given that it’s how gnomer got screwed up.

Jiana is a anduin fan girl.

It would pretty much just be humans vs the rest of the alliance and even the stormwind humans would likely splinter when they realize that there back to wrath where the common folk were starving to feed the army.

[AcidicSyn]

Anduin never should have been High King of the Alliance to begin with as that is not (to my knowledge) a hereditary title but is elected from among the Alliance leaders. Turalyon or even Genn are better qualified. Though I wouldn't mind seeing a Dwarf in charge.

Though that said, the question is who we think will actually be in charge rather than who we think should be. So I'd have to guess Turalyon as it stands now.

[Trumpcat]

I vote for Turalyon because I want him to be, not because I think he will be. And I also hope he isn't turned into a bad guy. He is the biggest hero of the Alliance, more experienced than anyone currently alive and a brilliant strategist.

Also he was one trying to convince Anduin out of his naive and foolish intentions in Before athe Storm, but Anduin pulled the "I am king and I say so" card, which then ended with hundreds of innocents dying.

[StationaryHawk]

Let Anduin be the King of Stormwind and Turalyon the High King of the Alliance. There's no reason the same person needs to hold both titles at once.

That said, the High King only has authority over what is given to them. The Alliance does not require its members to provide soldiers to the High King, nor did it require its members to sign the armistice. If Turalyon was to start acting against the interests of the Alliance's leaders, they would simply withdraw their support.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Let Anduin be the King of Stormwind and Turalyon the High King of the Alliance. There's no reason the same person needs to hold both titles at once.

That said, the High King only has authority over what is given to them. The Alliance does not require its members to provide soldiers to the High King, nor did it require its members to sign the armistice. If Turalyon was to start acting against the interests of the Alliance's leaders, they would simply withdraw their support.

The high king is in charge of armistice that’s why jaina wanted varian to keep pushing for war and tyranda was upset with anduin, the wars end when the high kings say so and any further action goes against the alliance’s official stances.

Take that away and you know the king part because Turalyon has no kingdom and he just becomes the grand commander of the alliance like they had before varian took up the role.

[shoc]

It doesn't even really make sense for the Alliance and Horde to exist post-Shadowlands anyways. The covenants are revealed, they should become the new factions. Alliance splits between Bastion and Ardenweald religious-ideological lines and the Horde splits between Maldraxxus and Venthyr lines. Humans adopt the Bastion religion, Night Elves adopt the Ardenweald religion, Blood Elves adopt the Venthyr religion, Orcs and Undead adopt the Maldraxxus religion. Works out perfectly.

[Varodoc]

It doesn't even really make sense for the Alliance and Horde to exist post-Shadowlands anyways. The covenants are revealed, they should become the new factions. Alliance splits between Bastion and Ardenweald religious-ideological lines and the Horde splits between Maldraxxus and Venthyr lines. Humans adopt the Bastion religion, Night Elves adopt the Ardenweald religion, Blood Elves adopt the Venthyr religion, Orcs and Undead adopt the Maldraxxus religion. Works out perfectly.

Alliance and Horde won't dissolve, they're too iconic to the Warcraft franchise. Think of all the faction-specific merchandise.

Cross-faction Raiding will 100% happen, but the two factions will likely remain lorewise, even if gameplay-wise a lot of restrictions and divisions will be removed. Which is what should have already happened in Legion really.