(Spoiler)Well then the court martial is as bad as a warchief.

[Sasquatch]

I just don't get why the Kaldorei don't use actual guerilla tactics instead of trying to use their reduced numbers to take on Orcish military. They should be using their wilderness skills to raid deep into Horde lands. No orc, troll, or Tauren mother and child should sleep easy knowing their villages could get burned or them get murdered in the night. The Horde had no moral qualms about genocide, and the ones who did, like Saurfang, are endlessly ridiculed by the Horde fanbase for not being ok with genocide. So why not strike terror into the hearts of the Horde populace?

[geco]

I just don't get why the Kaldorei don't use actual guerilla tactics instead of trying to use their reduced numbers to take on Orcish military. They should be using their wilderness skills to raid deep into Horde lands. No orc, troll, or Tauren mother and child should sleep easy knowing their villages could get burned or them get murdered in the night. The Horde had no moral qualms about genocide, and the ones who did, like Saurfang, are endlessly ridiculed by the Horde fanbase for not being ok with genocide. So why not strike terror into the hearts of the Horde populace?

Why Blizzard won't let the alliance do something evil. Nor that the Kaldorei use their powers or advantages.

I mean literally they gave us to the night war that can "Kill everyone in one world" and it literally did nothing for the Kaldorei.

But if what you say is the lore I want to read. The Kaldorei being able to peel. The Horde having real reason to feel dazed and say they are fighting to survive (instead of just being Evil and Foolish).

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I just don't get why the Kaldorei don't use actual guerilla tactics instead of trying to use their reduced numbers to take on Orcish military. They should be using their wilderness skills to raid deep into Horde lands. No orc, troll, or Tauren mother and child should sleep easy knowing their villages could get burned or them get murdered in the night. The Horde had no moral qualms about genocide, and the ones who did, like Saurfang, are endlessly ridiculed by the Horde fanbase for not being ok with genocide. So why not strike terror into the hearts of the Horde populace?

the orcs live in a desert, the cows on open plains, the troll on islands. none of there lands are really in area's the night elf's could use there strengths.

[Syegfryed]

I just don't get why the Kaldorei don't use actual guerilla tactics instead of trying to use their reduced numbers to take on Orcish military. They should be using their wilderness skills to raid deep into Horde lands. No orc, troll, or Tauren mother and child should sleep easy knowing their villages could get burned or them get murdered in the night. The Horde had no moral qualms about genocide, and the ones who did, like Saurfang, are endlessly ridiculed by the Horde fanbase for not being ok with genocide. So why not strike terror into the hearts of the Horde populace?

Thats because night elves are not amazing fighters and the most brightest strategists like some people believe they are, they lived ten thousand years safe, and with brief moments they had to fight they won by overwhelming magic power, and that power is long gone.

the horde races are much more suited for war and strategy than the night elves(prob not the darkspears,), as their entire lives was basically fighting for survival, orcs train for war since they are children. You think the night elves can go deep in horde lands and kill the civilians in their sleep? so could the horde with their shadow hunters, this is not the kind of war they want to start.

plus like @Lorgar Aurelian said, horde lands are not well suited for guerrilla or ambush tactics, with deserts and long plains, the only reason they still hold ashenvale is because they can use their strenght there (and because its rly one clan there most of time.)

[eurojust]

Thats because night elves are not amazing fighters and the most brightest strategists like some people believe they are, they lived ten thousand years safe, and with brief moments they had to fight they won by overwhelming magic power, and that power is long gone.

the horde races are much more suited for war and strategy than the night elves(prob not the darkspears,), as their entire lives was basically fighting for survival, orcs train for war since they are children. You think the night elves can go deep in horde lands and kill the civilians in their sleep? so could the horde with their shadow hunters, this is not the kind of war they want to start.

plus like @Lorgar Aurelian said, horde lands are not well suited for guerrilla or ambush tactics, with deserts and long plains, the only reason they still hold ashenvale is because they can use their strenght there (and because its rly one clan there most of time.)

They destroyed the Legion on their own and prior to that had a giant empire. Tyrande in wc3 was like "let's kill these orcs and humans for cutting our wood".
WoW retconned them into weak hippies who need the alliance to save them.

[Syegfryed]

They destroyed the Legion on their own and prior to that had a giant empire. Tyrande in wc3 was like "let's kill these orcs and humans for cutting our wood".
WoW retconned them into weak hippies who need the alliance to save them.

they lost their immortality and their "supernatural" power with the destruction of the first world tree, of course they will not be as stronger as they were before, and even when they had ,they got steamrolled by one orcish clan.

[Ardenaso]

And shamans using the elements. Why are the elements still answering the horde shamans' calls? Thrall killed a single genocidal orc boi that used dark shamans for war and the elements cut off all contact. But no. An entire team of shamans used fire elements to quicken the burning of the tree to kill the remaining innocents faster and the elements don't care.

Thrall lost his powers not because of cheating but because of losing self-confidence

- - - Updated - - -

but let's be real though, when was the last time the Alliance was actually held accountable for their actions?

- - - Updated - - -

They destroyed the Legion on their own and prior to that had a giant empire. Tyrande in wc3 was like "let's kill these orcs and humans for cutting our wood".
WoW retconned them into weak hippies who need the alliance to save them.

the reason why they "need the alliance to save them" was because the World Tree was shattered and they lost their immortality powers from it and became "weak hippies"

[geco]

the reason why they "need the alliance to save them" was because the World Tree was shattered and they lost their immortality powers from it and became "weak hippies"

The reason is need for plot.
The Kaldorei have a lot of weapons that they cannot use.

Bone Literalmenet Malfurion and Tyrande are not allowed to truly participate in the faction war.

[mysticx]

They destroyed the Legion on their own and prior to that had a giant empire. Tyrande in wc3 was like "let's kill these orcs and humans for cutting our wood".
WoW retconned them into weak hippies who need the alliance to save them.

They had to be nerfed to fit them into the Alliance, pure and simple.

They were equal to the Alliance and the Horde (Unit-wise anyway, story mandates and demon blood McGuffins aside), which was problematic for having them fall in line with the Alliance, so their power was nerfed, Blizz just got carried away and removed most of the cool themes ("Warrior culture" turned into "tree-huggers") from them as well.

[Myradin]

Honestly with how any wars are fought, the deforestation of the horde, and the weapons both sides are using these days, i'm surprised there's any lumber to be had in ashenvale.

[geco]

Honestly with how any wars are fought, the deforestation of the horde, and the weapons both sides are using these days, i'm surprised there's any lumber to be had in ashenvale.

Because of the cinematics and the few times that the subject is touched, it is something like that.
Malfurion and Druida use magic to make trees grow and those are the trees that Cerrederia cuts at this time.

Because you are right it does not make sense that none of the real original trees remain. More after BFA.

[Syegfryed]

Honestly with how any wars are fought, the deforestation of the horde, and the weapons both sides are using these days, i'm surprised there's any lumber to be had in ashenvale.

Thats because unlike some people think, Horde is not rly aimed to destroy and wipe down the place(only in cata with garrosh they went more gressive and deep the forest aiming to conquer it all) they just want get some resources out of it and everything could be fine with a trade deal, like it was before

the problem is how night elves can't stand orcs living there, is like hurting their pride admitting they lost.

The reason is need for plot.
The Kaldorei have a lot of weapons that they cannot use.

Bone Literalmenet Malfurion and Tyrande are not allowed to truly participate in the faction war.

they literally did, Tyrande got hurt by a magnataur in cata and Malfurion got an axe in his spine, they are all powerful but their bodies are still mortal

two people are not going to win a war

[geco]

they literally did, Tyrande got hurt by a magnataur in cata and Malfurion got an axe in his spine, they are all powerful but their bodies are still mortal

two people are not going to win a war

You are right about how they fought battles, but not in war. 10 or 20 major battles participated only 2.

Literally Tyrande becomes the Night warfare and then it goes off the plot off the map.
We have a cinematic of Malfurion breaking a caravan and in game he only comes out at the end of a micion to show his new model and then he doesn't come out again.

If the Thorn War had stripped Tyrande, Malfurion and Maiev / Jarold / Shandris and the Horde have to make a plan to take each one down and the Horde fights against the troops and not the civilians. I could feel that it was a real war and that the Horde won something. Not just a script excuse.

We actually have Malfurion stripping at the beginning and then Maiev stripping and that ends BFA.

I'm not saying that Malfurion and Tyrande have to be invincible and always win. I say they have to let them fight.

And if Blizzard doesn't want to write about so many Kaldorei characters, why would they become monothematic? Let him not write a war with the Kaldorei.

PS: It also goes to the Cenarius Circle, the Chimeras and other things that they take out of the Kaldorei when it comes to them.

PD2: It also sucks when they do similar things with the Horde (The whole BFA plot is "The Horde is suddenly Idiot and they are just monsters") or with other races of the Alliance.

PD3: Literally in the war of thorns, Malfurion was going to win the war by himself and the ax brought him down.
Because if Malfurion did some more time, things could go "well", reinforcements arrive, evacuate civilians ... etc. etc.
So really in WoW plots if 2 people win the war.

[Syegfryed]

You are right about how they fought battles, but not in war. 10 or 20 major battles participated only 2.

leaders usually don't fight the frontlines so they don't die by crossfire and haphazards , like what happened in bfa and cata, in the examples i said.

Literally Tyrande becomes the Night warfare and then it goes off the plot off the map.
We have a cinematic of Malfurion breaking a caravan and in game he only comes out at the end of a micion to show his new model and then he doesn't come out again.

thats because BfA was a garbage tier writing expansion and nothing make sense, both factions acted stupid and didn't use their strengths, both sides, all races, so this isn't rly an argument in night elf favor.

If the Thorn War had stripped Tyrande, Malfurion and Maiev / Jarold / Shandris and the Horde have to make a plan to take each one down and the Horde fights against the troops and not the civilians. I could feel that it was a real war and that the Horde won something. Not just a script excuse.

only malfurion was a problem, the rest isn't as much problem as other horde important npcs

PS: It also goes to the Cenarius Circle, the Chimeras and other things that they take out of the Kaldorei when it comes to them.

cenarius circle is a neutral thing, they can't partake the war, otherwise other neutral factions would do the same.

The horde didn't use their manticores, their dragons and other animals as well, dwarves didn't use their gryphons, the point falls to blizzard terrible logistics and completely negligence to their own lore, wanting to build and write a war expansion.

PD3: Literally in the war of thorns, Malfurion was going to win the war by himself and the ax brought him down.
Because if Malfurion did some more time, things could go "well", reinforcements arrive, evacuate civilians ... etc. etc.
So really in WoW plots if 2 people win the war.

win the war by itself is too much, and Sylvanas was hunting him giving horde time, she was a bit below him but enough to restrain his actions

that is also falls to the problem of blizzard flipping flop power levels in the game, when you hype someone to be a "god" on earth, you have to go for god butchering strategies.

[Khaza-R]

I just don't get why the Kaldorei don't use actual guerilla tactics instead of trying to use their reduced numbers to take on Orcish military. They should be using their wilderness skills to raid deep into Horde lands. No orc, troll, or Tauren mother and child should sleep easy knowing their villages could get burned or them get murdered in the night. The Horde had no moral qualms about genocide, and the ones who did, like Saurfang, are endlessly ridiculed by the Horde fanbase for not being ok with genocide. So why not strike terror into the hearts of the Horde populace?

I can only speak from my own perspective. But following WoW since its development, the shift for the Night Elves has been sad.

I remember when they first announced Night Elves as an Alliance race and thinking very clearly to myself "this seems so lopsided" and "how does the Horde stand any chance"? The forums back then were run wild with people saying this was unfair. Little did I know back then posting on the battle.net forums that it meant they were going to neuter the Night Elves hard and its a tradition they've kept up for 17 years.

It would be lovely to seem the Night Elves regain their former glory. Especially since the story is moving into co-faction grouping in the future. No reason not to restore them back to the army they were in WC3

[geco]

leaders usually don't fight the frontlines so they don't die by crossfire and haphazards , like what happened in bfa and cata, in the examples i said.

So giving them so much power is stupid. And the whole plot of the Night war is stupid. (The second is true)

thats because BfA was a garbage tier writing expansion and nothing make sense, both factions acted stupid and didn't use their strengths, both sides, all races, so this isn't rly an argument in night elf favor.

Usually every time the Horde invades the Kaldorei they come up with a silly plot where war makes no sense.

Why the Horde-Kaldorei war does not make sense because you already know Thrall-Malfurion-Tyrande are all supposed to be friends with each other.

cenarius circle is a neutral thing, they can't partake the war, otherwise other neutral factions would do the same.

If it is Neutral, let him leave Hyjal.
The Circle is Kaldorei when it comes to demanding things from the Kaldorei but Neutral when it comes to returning the favor.

The horde didn't use their manticores, their dragons and other animals as well, dwarves didn't use their gryphons, the point falls to blizzard terrible logistics and completely negligence to their own lore, wanting to build and write a war expansion.

Go figure
Vol'jin vs Maiev.
Tyrande vs Sylvanas.
Thrall vs Malfurion.

If the kaldorei had lost in those conditions we would not only have great fights but also a good excuse why the expansion does not focus on them and if Jaina.
They have already fought and lost. They have to heal their wounds before fighting again.

Instead we have Tyrande, Maiev, and Malfurion sitting around waiting for the writers to let them do something.

win the war by itself is too much, and Sylvanas was hunting him giving horde time, she was a bit below him but enough to restrain his actions

Correcting myself is not winning the war by himself. It's not that only Malfurion beats the Horde.
It is that Malfurion restrains the Horde so that the army arrives and for example Jarold prevents Varock from attacking from behind.

that is also falls to the problem of blizzard flipping flop power levels in the game, when you hype someone to be a "god" on earth, you have to go for god butchering strategies.

And that's the reason why the kaldorei are so angry too.
They tell you that the Night war is super-mega-ultra-powerful. But when they have to use her as the Horde they don't have to fight the narfan to the point where it is weaker than the original Tyrande. Then the whole plot literally becomes an insult.

(I don't have to clarify that it also sucks for the Horde)

[Feanoro]

the orcs live in a desert, the cows on open plains, the troll on islands. none of there lands are really in area's the night elf's could use there strengths.

Yeah, there's definitely never been people highly successful with ambush or hit and run tactics in deserts, plains, and islands.

[Syegfryed]

So giving them so much power is stupid. And the whole plot of the Night war is stupid. (The second is true)

you must understand that the whole plot of bfa was stupid and was build by people who have no idea of warfare, once you get that, the "whys" things are the way they are start to make sense.

Usually every time the Horde invades the Kaldorei they come up with a silly plot where war makes no sense.

the horde "invaded" the kaldorei literally 2 times in wow lifetime, one with Garrosh on cata, and that made totally sense, and second here in Bfa, that was a silly plot, indeed, but again, the whole expansion was, trying to make this as a night elf problem is absurd

Why the Horde-Kaldorei war does not make sense because you already know Thrall-Malfurion-Tyrande are all supposed to be friends with each other.

leaders =/= their people

If it is Neutral, let him leave Hyjal.
The Circle is Kaldorei when it comes to demanding things from the Kaldorei but Neutral when it comes to returning the favor.

not me who does the rules, like i said, they are not to interfere, and both the cenarius circle and the earthen ring are busy dealing with the sword stabbing the planet.

Go figure
Vol'jin vs Maiev.
Tyrande vs Sylvanas.
Thrall vs Malfurion.

back in the old days we kinda had those things, when races fought other races, like dwarves x taurens, undeads x humans, orcs x night elves, depending on the map, like in other place it could be dwarves and orcs in alterac valley, you had Dreakthar x the dwarf leader.

the game stop being played like that and focused on npcs journey.

Correcting myself is not winning the war by himself. It's not that only Malfurion beats the Horde.
It is that Malfurion restrains the Horde so that the army arrives and for example Jarold prevents Varock from attacking from behind.

even before malfurion being beaten there was not much thing the other forces could do with stupid catapults who can attack an world tree miles at distance, they could just shot the ships

this entire expansion was a trainwreack of nonsense

And that's the reason why the kaldorei are so angry too.
They tell you that the Night war is super-mega-ultra-powerful. But when they have to use her as the Horde they don't have to fight the narfan to the point where it is weaker than the original Tyrande. Then the whole plot literally becomes an insult.

(I don't have to clarify that it also sucks for the Horde)

like i said, wow writers don't care about races, cultures and worldbuilding, they are focusing one plotline with npcs they think is cool, and they face the fans demanding something should be done to their races, rightfully so.

In Danuser mind, he expected the players just go along with the story je wrote, because its amazing, but, we don't, we want our races to do something, so they make up some shit to shut us up

Vol'jin appearance in bfa, as well the night warrior plot was an attempt to shut up the fanbase who dislike the story direction, and is so shit because they simple don't care about and it not part of the initial plotline, thats why when they try to tie together it became a mess.

Vol'jin don't say shit about why he put sylvanas as warchief, he don't say shit about the darkspear, he don't protest sylvanas actions even when he literally made a rebelliona gainst Garrosh for less, because need Sylvanas as wow protagonist.

Tyrande became a night warrior, but can't do shit because the plot of lich-queen sylvanas and her human ranger must continue, she can't kill her in shadowlands because they still need Sylvanas to save us all in the final plot.

People don't realize this isn't about horde x alliance anymore, they just do a shit plotline and use the npcs as actors for both factions.

[voidox]

the current Horde is still invading the Kaldorei lands and not only that

there it is, Blizzard are going full steam ahead where the horde will not see a single consequence for their role in the night elf genocide. Heck, the horde won't ever have to even offer any sort of compensation to the night elves

Tyrande will return from the SL with her new "all about growth" attitude and will probably go to the horde council herself, likely to Danuser's 2nd pet Calia, and offer her apologies for being "too aggressive". Then the night elves will just forget the genocide and Blizzard continues their tradition of treating the night elves like shit

[geco]

I agree with almost everything but two things.

the horde "invaded" the kaldorei literally 2 times in wow lifetime, one with Garrosh on cata, and that made totally sense, and second here in Bfa, that was a silly plot, indeed, but again, the whole expansion was, trying to make this as a night elf problem is absurd

It's actually 3 times the first with Trhalla.
And the time with Garrosh Malfurion he ordered the Kaldorei that they have to forgive the Horde (who are attacking him at this moment) because they have to do something else more important.
And there is a whole plot of "Fire Druids" that are the kaldorei who say "We are not going to follow some asshole who demands us to do things and does not worry about us when we need help".

leaders =/= their people

True, but Vol'jin was able to make peace with the Kaldorei and leave the Kaldorei lands (which the council, I repeat, cannot).
So Thrall could make a trade treaty and get the wood.

But Thrall cares as much about his people as Malfurion does. (Or so Blizzard wrote)


_________

there it is, Blizzard are going full steam ahead where the horde will not see a single consequence for their role in the night elf genocide. Heck, the horde won't ever have to even offer any sort of compensation to the night elves

Tyrande will return from the SL with her new "all about growth" attitude and will probably go to the horde council herself, likely to Danuser's 2nd pet Calia, and offer her apologies for being "too aggressive". Then the night elves will just forget the genocide and Blizzard continues their tradition of treating the night elves like shit

And there we will all say how bad it was to attack the Kaldorei while everyone continues to attack them.

But then in 6 years they would tell us again that the Kaldorei recovered their lands and built a capital off camera to destroy it at some point on camera.
As they did with the treaty of Ashenvale. As they did in a good war they told us that the Kaldorei had control of even a fort in the wastelands but we will never see that in-game.