The 2021 Formula 1 World Championship Thread

[Northern Goblin]

Omg, now people think divebombs are dangerous and should not be legal hahahahahahaha.

You there! 5s penalty for divebombing!

There's a difference between saying that divebombs aren't rewarded when they run people off track, or penalised when they cause a race incident, and saying they're illegal.

But your arguments are rarely in good faith throughout this thread so I'm unsure you know the difference.

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I think we can all agree to that. Damn I miss Charlie Whiting.
Masi decision to do standing starts in SA was more dangerous then any "divebombs" Max ever made. Hell, his decision to okay that track one day prior the FP should be reason alone to fire him.

We really didn't appreciate how good it was with him around, biggest loss to the sport.

[Bigbazz]

He did receive penalties at Silverstone.

Lewis got the same penalty for putting Max into a wall (which could have killed him, it's one of the fastest corners in the world) at Silverstone as Max got for slightly damaging Lewis's front wing at Saudi. What penalty is that? Nothing, that's what, because a 10 second penalty given to a driver with the full knowledge that it doesn't change the result is not a penalty.

Lewis should have had either a disqualification or a significant grid drop in the next race, drivers have been penalised more for less. Stop bringing other races into the discussion about Abu Dhabi, it's irrelevant.

If you’re arguing Lewis should have qualified better then, you should be arguing Max shouldn’t have fucked up his tires in qualification here.

Again this is an irrelevant point. Max could have used any tyres he wanted, he was slower than Lewis at Abu Dhabi and his damaged tyres from Q2 had no bearing on anything in the end, this isn't a discussion point that matters. Strategy and luck won Max the race, and I'm sorry but the fastest car isn't always the one that wins the race, it's the one that crosses the line first.

Stop bringing up irrelevant pointless things.

[MakeMeLaugh]

No it's not, divebombs usually run someone off track or cause contact and usually nothing to do with the racing line, just a desperate attempt to get past on the inside line. Late braking is just that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8YtjEakiQU look how late his steering input is, he's beyond the apex. 0:46

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S_jdcUVtaTU look where he steers in here. 0:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_f1dpx7Bd7g late braking

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoVE4H807hI late braking

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Norris has been consistently vocal about it. I like the suggestion after a red flag there are 3 laps under safety car, there you can change tyres if you wish and then SC restart.

No, dive-bombing is exactly late braking from a good distance. He met the apex, he stayed on the track, he wasn't turning because he was braking straight in a diagonal line, the video from Driver61 he explains that.

Those videos were all divebombs. The difference is that Hamilton didn't yield, he tried to keep the outside.

[Jessicka]

Lewis got the same penalty for putting Max into a wall (which could have killed him, it's one of the fastest corners in the world) at Silverstone as Max got for slightly damaging Lewis's front wing at Saudi. What penalty is that? Nothing, that's what, because a 10 second penalty given to a driver with the full knowledge that it doesn't change the result is not a penalty.

Lewis should have had either a disqualification or a significant grid drop in the next race, drivers have been penalised more for less. Stop bringing other races into the discussion about Abu Dhabi, it's irrelevant.

Okay; so why was Abu Dhabi unique in having this part-implemented lapped cars passing rule? Why wasn’t Sainz given a run on the front two?

Why weren’t drivers further back -allowed to race- which was the reason given for the front two?

[Bigbazz]

Okay; so why was Abu Dhabi unique in having this part-implemented lapped cars passing rule? Why wasn’t Sainz given a run on the front two?

Why weren’t drivers further back -allowed to race- which was the reason given for the front two?

Ask Michael Masi, it's not Red Bull or Max Verstappen's problem, they did not cause it.

[Jessicka]

Ask Michael Masi, it's not Red Bull or Max Verstappen's problem, they did not cause it.

Seem to recall Horner badgering him…

[Bigbazz]

Seem to recall Horner badgering him…

Nooo Michael no, please no safety car Mikey!!! - Toto Wolf.

[Northern Goblin]

Seem to recall Horner badgering him…

Both team leaders have been in Masi's ear all season.

That practice needs to end, it's detrimental to the sport to be allowed to influence the race controller.

[Jessicka]

Nooo Michael no, please no safety car Mikey!!! - Toto Wolf.

Most people here seem to agree a red flag would have been fairer…

[MCMLXXXII]

Most people here seem to agree a red flag would have been fairer…

With here you mean people in Britain, right?

[Northern Goblin]

With here you mean people in Britain, right?

Weird argument. Red Bull is a British based racing team. If we're supposedly bias one way, then the same rule applies in both directions.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Weird argument. Red Bull is a British based racing team. If we're supposedly bias one way, then the same rule applies in both directions.

The only team that actually got fans is Ferrari, the rest it doesn't really matter from where they are, nobody from the US is going to cheer for Haas just because it's a US team.

[Bigbazz]

Most people here seem to agree a red flag would have been fairer…

I think a red flag would have been the best solution, but Toto would have protested that too since it still gives Max a real chance. Toto was looking for Lewis to cruise off into the sunset, and I don't disagree that Lewis earned that but sometimes things just don't play out. If it had been a red flag Max could have still won, if they had not allowed lapped cars past then Max could have still won...

The point is we don't know and we can't know, all we know is Max passed the finish line first and Mercedes made the mistake of not getting Lewis on newer tyres because they didn't wanna risk track position. The reason that was a mistake is because they showed that Lewis had a big straight line speed advantage and also a big laptime advantage, if Max did get track position they were well equipped to take it back and then Lewis would have been safer.

Merc and Red Bull played their gambles and rolled the dice as best they could and Red Bull came out ahead. Michael Masi can't really be blamed for Max bias when his decisions were not consistent with favouring any particular driver, Michael Masi can only be blamed for consistently being inconsistent and for applying his own interpretation of the ruleset.

So the result stands and it's Michael Masi that should be under fire. Also, I am British.

[Espo]

Weird argument. Red Bull is a British based racing team. If we're supposedly bias one way, then the same rule applies in both directions.

Yea, agree on it being a weird comment. I'm not British or a fan of either driver and I think a red flag would have been best. I want to see the best, fairest racing possible--not what we saw.

Interesting contradiction in this article by Masi: https://www.motorsportweek.com/2020/...gp-safety-car/ where he justifies the safety car length by saying all cars need to be unlapped. Just illustrates how full of shit and incompetent he is.

But good conversation here (other than the insults and random comments about where people are from--be nice). I do hope Mercedes pushes forward with this, but I do not want the result overturned (that feels bad for everyone, in my opinion). I want them to push forward because I want the FIA to acknowledge/fix how inconsistent they've been, with the rules, for all teams. I don't care if it gets resolved behind closed doors--just figure it out.

Hell, you had some Marko quotes yesterday doing his usual postering about "leaving F1 if the steward/inconsistency isn't fixed". It's his usual craziness, but the man is right in principle.

If there's one thing these teams can probably unite on, it's that Masi isn't fit for his job and they need to find a way to be consistent and fair--no matter what. Maybe the mess of yesterday, combined with a team threatening legal action, and potential bad press for the sport will result in them figuring things out.

[Northern Goblin]

The only team that actually got fans is Ferrari, the rest it doesn't really matter from where they are, nobody from the US is going to cheer for Haas just because it's a US team.

Nobody's going to cheer for Haas because they're fucking terrible, and then they have Mazepan.

People have followed teams for years. Just most of the traditional teams are either dead, rebranded to the point they're no longer recognisable (*coughALPINEcough*) or they're a shadow of their former selves (hello McClaren and Stewart) so you don't hear as much about it.

Still plays God Save the Queen whenever Verstappen wins though.

[MCMLXXXII]

I should've clarified. British media was very biased towards Hamilton, as Dutch was to Verstappen. Problem is Sky is also providing official F1 TV coverage. I avoid the Dutch TV as much as possible but my only legal alternative is F1 TV.
So now I have that nuisance out of mind. Red flag was the best solution however there have been other situations where a SC was sufficient. I think yesterday was the fastest car recovery I've ever seen. As soon as they lifted Latifi's car all the debri was already broomed up.

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Nobody's going to cheer for Haas because they're fucking terrible, and then they have Mazepan.

People have followed teams for years. Just most of the traditional teams are either dead, rebranded to the point they're no longer recognisable (*coughALPINEcough*) or they're a shadow of their former selves (hello McClaren and Stewart) so you don't hear as much about it.

Still plays God Save the Queen whenever Verstappen wins though.

Not true. Unless God saves the queen sounds like the Austrian national anthem.

[MakeMeLaugh]

Nobody's going to cheer for Haas because they're fucking terrible, and then they have Mazepan.

People have followed teams for years. Just most of the traditional teams are either dead, rebranded to the point they're no longer recognisable (*coughALPINEcough*) or they're a shadow of their former selves (hello McClaren and Stewart) so you don't hear as much about it.

Still plays God Save the Queen whenever Verstappen wins though.

I used Haas just as an example. The point is only Ferrari have those real fans, sure there are people that cheer for Mclaren or Williams(I did) but it's not the same thing at all.

Williams was the real shit, too bad how the team is at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the name of the team, now that Frank is gone and the family is not involved anymore.

[Kallisto]

The only team that actually got fans is Ferrari, the rest it doesn't really matter from where they are, nobody from the US is going to cheer for Haas just because it's a US team.

McLaren has long term fans
Mercs have fans
Red Bull has fans
Renault (or whatever they want to be called any given year) has fans
WILLIAMS a team that has been at the back of the grid has fans
Sauber has fans
Force India/Racing Point/Aston Martin has fans
Ferrari has fans

The only teams that don't have out and out fans are
Alpha (Torro Rosso) Tauri because they're just cars 3 and 4 of Red Bull
Haas a team that's started as the worst two teams and got progressively worse.

[Bigbazz]

I was always a Mclaren fan, I kinda lost faith in them after 2012 when they just fumbled the championship that they should have won. The car was fast enough and Lewis was driving well, the team was a disaster and the reliability was horrible. I still supported them just because Button drove for them but when they talked big all winter about how their 2013 car was so special and then it was a complete pile of trash and slower than the 2012 car I just lost faith in the team.

Mclaren are a likable team again now, Zak Brown is a likable personality and the team has readjusted, but the reality is they are no longer a top competitive team. And Haas, hard to be a Haas fan when they are barely even showing up these days, they're in the league of the 3 new teams that joined in 2010 (HRT, Virgin, Lotus/Caterham), in their own catagory at the bottom of the grid just making up numbers and barely surviving.

[Northern Goblin]

The recovery team worked impressively fast to try and clean up and give us any racing time at the end, but even then it just wasn't sufficient without Masi rewriting the rules on the spot.

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Haas today are what Minardi and Arrows were to the 90s and 00s. If they finish anything but last it's a good day for them. No one's going to ever be a fan of that.