What the.... is going on with tanks these days!??!?!

[Eggroll]

Hey guys and gals,

I've been experiencing quite the weird tank behaviour in recent weeks, it's absolutely irritating.

I'm only running random dungeons and LFR but I asked around in my guild and they have observed the same.

Tanks in LFR running away from group, pulling everything.. then ofc wiping everyone, or dying by themselves
Tanks in dungeons always running way ahead of the group, also pulling everything. Not the usual go go guy, but really, it's like they are on the
run or something, from the group, from themselves, idk. I mean there's a middle ground between a snooze fest and this madness, or isn't there?

Anyone have observed the same? What is going on? It hasn't always been this bad.

Thoughts, recommendations? Did I miss something?

[Miseration]

Hey guys and gals,

I've been experiencing quite the weird tank behaviour in recent weeks, it's absolutely irritating.

I'm only running random dungeons and LFR but I asked around in my guild and they have observed the same.

Tanks in LFR running away from group, pulling everything.. then ofc wiping everyone, or dying by themselves
Tanks in dungeons always running way ahead of the group, also pulling everything. Not the usual go go guy, but really, it's like they are on the
run or something, from the group, from themselves, idk. I mean there's a middle ground between a snooze fest and this madness, or isn't there?

Anyone have observed the same? What is going on? It hasn't always been this bad.

Thoughts, recommendations? Did I miss something?

thats how it feels when i do dungeons in Final fantasy. LOL

[potis]

Anecdotal evidence as always/Sample bias, this always happens at all times since the launch of the game.

Its probably an effect of decent groups vs waste of time groups, view it as however you want, or simply a bad player.

Going a random normal leveling dungeons, hit other 4 experienced players leveling alts, pull the whole room and cleave down, repeat x 5 times, finish dungeon in 9 minutes, queue a couple more times with them, maybe get lucky to another dungeon with similar playters, you get used to it.

Then the 5th group is not like that, they arent good enough or knowledgeable and you get what you describe.

I literally had this with my bear dudu a couple months ago when they announced mage tower, i wanted to level him, and then saw it scales down and left him at 56, but it basically went like this:

Dungeon 1 2 and 3, averaging 9-10mins each, bloodlust wouldnt be up a second time literally because its joke content, its fun the first time when the expansion launches and for the first 2 days, after that its simply a waste of time, a chore, and 4th dungeon took as much as the previous 3 combined.

What changed? I noticed that my group in the first dungeon wasnt terrible and knew how to play, go pull everything, they stayed for 2 more, 4th dungeon it was a completely new group and the 4 of them couldnt do as much as 1 person from the previous group, we didnt wipe at any point it and neither it was dangerous, but it was not fun, and i simply felt like i wasted my time.

I am not defending the players you meet, they are probably in the "Terrible delusional player" category, but as i have said about similar matters before, if you experience actual level of proper play, its hard to accept the average, so if that tank met a decent group, he is gonna try to experience that speed again.

[Biomega]

Two things are going on here:

1. Sample bias/misrepresentation of evidence. You're either talking about isolated cases, or you're exaggerating what's happening. Nobody is going to believe that the norm is a tank who runs away instantly pulling everything (not just "a lot", but "everything") and never stops. That's not how it goes. People simply do generous pulls because at this point in most content you can expect people to vastly overgear it, and it's time efficient to do generous pulls. But even tanks who simply do that, and do it without communication, will not be a majority.

2. People aren't ready enough for time-efficient random-group content. When doing random group stuff, a lot of people are there out of necessity - they need something specific, like a reward/drop/quest etc. They're not interested in "experiencing" the content as much as they are in simply clearing it. For that goal, it's only natural that they're looking to be efficient with their time (and everyone else's) because they're not doing this because they want to, they're doing it because they have to. The journey is not the goal here, the destination is. And it's understandable they want to get there quickly. At most low to mid levels of content, "speedrunning" is entirely feasible to do even with randoms. A random heroic or LFR is not challenging content, it's chore content - and it gets treated like that by many people. That creates a baseline expectation of a certain speed, and if you're not willing to do so then you should communicate that to others; and, if necessary, be prepared to be replaced if you are unwilling to adhere to the standard. That sucks for the outliers, no question; but that's how standards and expectations work. Most people however tend to be reasonable, and if you request "slower pulls" or something along those lines, they'll be accommodating. If your stance however is "omg stop running wtf" then don't be surprised if you get kicked. If you don't like doing content at that speed, start your own groups, or clearly communicate with people about your own expectations - but remember: your expectations don't have more value than other people's expectations. And if you're in a group with 3 people who want to do it quickly and 2 people who don't, then there's a clear majority expectation here that you can either respect, or walk away from (assuming, of course, you've tried reasonable discourse already).

[Eggroll]

I hear what you are saying.

This is not anecdotal or biased, I've been observing this for weeks now. And no, it not been like this before, and I've been playing this game as a casual since forever.

It's also not "not challenging content" when the tank at the start of LFR first wing SOD repeatedly pulls all the trash and wipes the entire group.
Then he rezzes, does the same shit again, then leaves the group. Wut?

What the hell is the point of this? It certainly doesn't make things faster, does it?

How do you get the impression I would assume my expectations have more value than other people's expectations? I was merely asking a question, because I feel like this behaviour has become quite extreme and was merely inquiring for a reason that I might not be aware of.

[dacoolist]

As a healer, I've found that tanks like this are usually trying to save everyone time by getting things done quickly.

I for one appreciate it, but I do want to say one SMOL' thing: LUCKILY I usually overgear content, meaning luckily the big pull k and them doing dumb stuff doesn't matter because I can either outgear or outskill it.. if this was a normal SHIT healer though: it would be a wipe over and over.. in LFR you have to know how hard you can push your team - if you're running a static group with friends that are elite (likely everyone here on mmo-c.com RIGHT) then its fine to pull big etc.. but when you're playing with rookies and people that just get jaded because they are usually super old mummies: Then yeah you should watch it because they will boot you from the group and youll have a 30 minute time out debuff to queue up again

[munkeyinorbit]

You are deep into a patch and you're playing at a level where there are more likely to be bad tanks. These tanks are probably newly leveled 6th alts that really don't know what's going on. On their other toons they have observed better tanks do what they are trying to do and think that's the way you are supposed to tank. I think it's a case of players thinking they are a lot better than they actually are and just failing. See mage tower threads for proof.

[khazmodan]

You are deep into a patch and you're playing at a level where there are more likely to be bad tanks. These tanks are probably newly leveled 6th alts that really don't know what's going on. On their other toons they have observed better tanks do what they are trying to do and think that's the way you are supposed to tank. I think it's a case of players thinking they are a lot better than they actually are and just failing. See mage tower threads for proof.

This is probably exactly right, These guys don't really want to full time tank but they want to have a tank available in the tool box and they don't want to learn the individual tanking skills for a dungeon boss because they just want to be available for occasional fill in roles in a raid.

[sunxsera]

Often low/mid-tier players that think it's going much faster that way - when most of the time it isn't while grouped with casuals.
They also overestimate their skill. Probably watched naohw too much.

It's a whole different situation when a skilled players does this though.

[Valhalladin]

I noticed that when you go up the difficulty ladder it is easier to find good tanks. Doing a +5 and a +15 the tank favours the higher key. Guess people on a low level might be learning a new class, swapping specs for fast queues or are stuck in low level content because they aren't very good.

[Plehnard]

Often low/mid-tier players that think it's going much faster that way - when most of the time it isn't while grouped with casuals.
They also overestimate their skill. Probably watched naohw too much.

It's a whole different situation when a skilled players does this though.

That's what I would say as well.

My my experience was kind of similar as yours when at the start of season 1.
Me and a friend were mostly running something between +2-9 with randoms and thought of quitting M+ all together because at a certain point you start questioning if you're just not good enough for higher content.
Then we found some people for a fixed group and all a sudden +15 wasn't that uncommon. In season 2 we had our KSM after 2 weeks and run 20+ frequently.
Filling up with randoms or just joining random groups at that level almost never is a bad experience.
Low level LFG/LFR is just the bottom of the barrel.

[Ringthane]

Hey guys and gals,

I've been experiencing quite the weird tank behaviour in recent weeks, it's absolutely irritating.

I'm only running random dungeons and LFR but I asked around in my guild and they have observed the same.

Tanks in LFR running away from group, pulling everything.. then ofc wiping everyone, or dying by themselves
Tanks in dungeons always running way ahead of the group, also pulling everything. Not the usual go go guy, but really, it's like they are on the
run or something, from the group, from themselves, idk. I mean there's a middle ground between a snooze fest and this madness, or isn't there?

Anyone have observed the same? What is going on? It hasn't always been this bad.

Thoughts, recommendations? Did I miss something?

For years, all tanks have been hearing is "Pull faster! Pull faster! We don't need to worry about mana to heal any more, and why are you so slow, and blah blah blah!". And now they're doing it, and you're still not happy.

[deenman]

I hear what you are saying.

This is not anecdotal or biased, I've been observing this for weeks now.

so the very definition of anecdotal?lol

[Vakna]

I hear what you are saying.

This is not anecdotal or biased, I've been observing this for weeks now.

But that's the exact definition of anecdotal.

Speaking as a tank, if I'm doing something it's because I know I can handle it. If I can pull half the dungeon and live, then I will pull half the dungeon. There is absolutely no reason for me to take my time if I can just do it faster. I would never do something I can't handle and that is the crux of the issue, if your tanks are running off and pulling everything then dying, then it's on them, but if they are pulling everything and living, just accept it and hold W for free loot.

At the end of the day, any time a tank dies, it's almost certainly their fault. You should never, ever die as a tank if you are pulling within your means.

[DazManianDevil]

As a healer, I've found that tanks like this are usually trying to save everyone time by getting things done quickly.

I for one appreciate it, but I do want to say one SMOL' thing: LUCKILY I usually overgear content, meaning luckily the big pull k and them doing dumb stuff doesn't matter because I can either outgear or outskill it.. if this was a normal SHIT healer though: it would be a wipe over and over.. in LFR you have to know how hard you can push your team - if you're running a static group with friends that are elite (likely everyone here on mmo-c.com RIGHT) then its fine to pull big etc.. but when you're playing with rookies and people that just get jaded because they are usually super old mummies: Then yeah you should watch it because they will boot you from the group and youll have a 30 minute time out debuff to queue up again

This is correct, every poster on MMO-C is a current or prior Hall of Fame/R1 Glad level player, facts. /s
OT: If a person is new to tanking and they ask their friend how to tank, chances are they might hear "Yeah, shit's easy. Pull everything, keep aggro. The dps will kill it before you die, if you die you probably got a bad healer."
"LFR doesn't even hit hard, you won't need defensives til at least Heroic."
"Lots of baddies in LFR, just re-queue into a better group." etc
*Bad tank dies, silently blames the dps and healers, leaves.*

Heaven forbid the community start to nurture tanks, anecdotal but at least since early Wrath tanks are actively abused in PuGs, if not earlier.

[garicasha]

Pugging as a tank is a skill unto itself.

Bottom 25%--don't know game mechanics, casual players
Mid 50%--know game mechanics but frequently waste a lot of time

And then the worst possible combo, that 75-90 percentile. Those are the folks that know game mechanics, have done the dungeons a hundred times. AND WILL NOT ADJUST TO THEIR GROUP. They're the most entitled, toxic, chain-pulling, Dunning-Kruger expect-everyone-to-have-mythic-raid-experience but ignore all evidence when people don't, rage-quitting, s----talking people imaginable. They're the ones that make casuals quit and make the game unfun for both themselves and others.

And then you have the top 10% of pug tanks, who can actually adjust to the group.

Now I'm far from the best tank out there, but a lifetime of pugging dungeons...I can tell by how fast the first pull goes whether we're going to crush the key, get crushed, or if it's gonna be close. And then I go faster or slower based on that.

But yes pugging is a skill unto itself.

[Polybius]

This is correct, every poster on MMO-C is a current or prior Hall of Fame/R1 Glad level player, facts. /s
OT: If a person is new to tanking and they ask their friend how to tank, chances are they might hear "Yeah, shit's easy. Pull everything, keep aggro. The dps will kill it before you die, if you die you probably got a bad healer."
"LFR doesn't even hit hard, you won't need defensives til at least Heroic."
"Lots of baddies in LFR, just re-queue into a better group." etc
*Bad tank dies, silently blames the dps and healers, leaves.*

Heaven forbid the community start to nurture tanks, anecdotal but at least since early Wrath tanks are actively abused in PuGs, if not earlier.

Definitely Wrath, it coddled the “gogogo” mentality in dungeons.

[cparle87]

Definitely Wrath, it coddled the “gogogo” mentality in dungeons.

Then we went facefirst into Cata where almost every boss had a one shot mechanic if you stood in the wrong place or didn't interrupt the right spell. =-)

[Raetary]

What is going on?

The same thing that's been going on for years, they are trying to rush the dungeon.

[Deneios]

The average random player in wow is a mouthbreathing oxygen thief. The best option is to guild up and play with people who can be made better and make you better.