Remarks from former WoW designer gives insight on WoW's classes

[Stickiler]

Did you read my post? People would be up in arms over the spec being ranged as much as people are about survival being changed to melee. "I rolled X class to be Y role, how dare you change it?"

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God knows they've tried, though. They've remade the spec pretty much each xpac. But the loudest voice is "I rolled hunter to be ranged and I'll never play this spec again until you fixed it and made it ranged again."

The complaints are generally(from what I've seen) about changing Survival from Ranged -> Melee, like "I loved Ranged survival why'd you change it". Which is a completely different scenario from adding a third, ranged spec to DH.

[Triceron]

Did you read my post? People would be up in arms over the spec being ranged as much as people are about survival being changed to melee. "I rolled X class to be Y role, how dare you change it?"

Yeah, but people would be up in arms over any spec change, regardless of whether it's potentially better or not. Doesn't seem like you're making much of an argument here any change is sure to piss off at least one chunk of the playerbase.

At this point you may as well say the game shouldn't add new classes because it will piss off the 'We don't need more classes!' people.

[Aurabolt]

I have always felt each Race/Class combo should have unique skills and abilities. I think this would help in a lot of regards.

[Candlewick]

Did you read my post? People would be up in arms over the spec being ranged as much as people are about survival being changed to melee. "I rolled X class to be Y role, how dare you change it?"

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God knows they've tried, though. They've remade the spec pretty much each xpac. But the loudest voice is "I rolled hunter to be ranged and I'll never play this spec again until you fixed it and made it ranged again."

It's the same for arcane ive watched it go from casting every school of spell as its main spell to that weird time it was a dot spec to all sorts of things. It really didnt seem to settle till wod.

[Teriz]

What would a dark ranger honestly do though to be frank? Would it just be a MM hunter with renamed spells? What is left for range dps to do that would fit into the game?

We have MM,and destro as plant your feet casters. Bm and demo as pet users and a host of specs fishing for procs or balancing resources or ramping for dmg.

When all is said and done what is left for a dark ranger to do?

I largely agree. The only thing that really separated Dark Rangers from Hunters was Sylvanas’ Banshee abilities. However, only Sylvanas could perform those abilities, and every other Dark Ranger was a DR without Banshee abilities.

[threads]

What would a dark ranger honestly do though to be frank? Would it just be a MM hunter with renamed spells? What is left for range dps to do that would fit into the game?

We have MM,and destro as plant your feet casters. Bm and demo as pet users and a host of specs fishing for procs or balancing resources or ramping for dmg.

When all is said and done what is left for a dark ranger to do?

with this logic there shouldnt be any plate melee besides warrior. or any cloth casters except mages.

[Candlewick]

with this logic there shouldnt be any plate melee besides warrior. or any cloth casters except mages.

Not really lets compare warriors, pallys, and dks.

Warriors mostly rely on a set cycle while they have procs they are not really the major focus instead its keeping up a steady rotation and hammering in damage during execute.

Ret is almost all about using procs for bursts of damage with using abilities almost solely to trigger more procs.

I've not played a dk at all for years but their riation relies more on abusing dots or for unholy I think it's reducing cds to reuse them? I'm fuzzy on dks.

Each does something similar but different and their utility spells vary wildly.

Dark ranger honestly sounds like a MM hunter with maybe warrior shouts and mages improved invis?

[Teriz]

with this logic there shouldnt be any plate melee besides warrior. or any cloth casters except mages.

Eh, not quite. Paladins use holy magic. Death Knights use Necromancy. Warriors don’t use magic and are the traditional fighter class. Each plate class is adding something that the other cannot offer.

Hunters on the hand have easily housed Dark Ranger abilities for multiple expansions. As I said earlier, Hunters has multiple versions of Black Arrow, the signature ability of Dark Rangers, and it didn’t alter its playstyle. Compare that to metamorphosis, an ability that was so definitive that a spec was built around it.

[threads]

Not really lets compare warriors, pallys, and dks.

Warriors mostly rely on a set cycle while they have procs they are not really the major focus instead its keeping up a steady rotation and hammering in damage during execute.

Ret is almost all about using procs for bursts of damage with using abilities almost solely to trigger more procs.

I've not played a dk at all for years but their riation relies more on abusing dots or for unholy I think it's reducing cds to reuse them? I'm fuzzy on dks.

Each does something similar but different and their utility spells vary wildly.

Dark ranger honestly sounds like a MM hunter with maybe warrior shouts and mages improved invis?

you're comparing established playstyles vs a class that is not in the game. highly likely they would specifically design it to differ from MM hunter.

Eh, not quite. Paladins use holy magic. Death Knights use Necromancy. Warriors don’t use magic and are the traditional fighter class. Each plate class is adding something that the other cannot offer.

Hunters on the hand have easily housed Dark Ranger abilities for multiple expansions. As I said earlier, Hunters has multiple versions of Black Arrow, the signature ability of Dark Rangers, and it didn’t alter its playstyle. Compare that to metamorphosis, an ability that was so definitive that a spec was built around it.

they havent had black arrow since legion because it doesnt fit with hunters. "warriors dont use magic" just like "hunters dont use magic"

[Teriz]

they havent had black arrow since legion because it doesnt fit with hunters. "warriors dont use magic" just like "hunters dont use magic"

They currently have access to Wailing Arrow and Withering Fire. Both Dark Ranger abilities. Wailing Arrow is already assigned as a Hunter ability;

https://www.wowhead.com/spell=354831/wailing-arrow

Black Arrow will return to the Hunter class when it offers something to the class beyond being a DoT.

[Ielenia]

What are you using to draw that comparison? You're literally making shit up right now considering nothing defines a Paladin as being generic while a Demon Hunter is specific.

I've already explained that.

Again, your argument falls flat when considering Demon Hunters have Vengeance tanking spec,

Which, as I've already explained, fits the concept of the demon hunter that has been presented so far.

I'm calling you out for being a liar and a bullshitter. Do you understand?

Except I didn't lie, and the one saying "bullshit" here is you.

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First off the Death Knight has multiple ranged spells in wow.

But no "caster" spec or "ranged" spec, which should exist by your logic.

Or like I said give them a perma demon form that is ranged. Lore already establishes that diff demon types give diff abilities.

They can't stay in "perma-demon form" because it allows the inner demon to further corrupt the demon hunter and eventually take over: "Assuming Metamorphosis form is a very dangerous feat to undertake: unleashing the demon within is risking that the demonic power will take over."

And "xcept this is false as every single ability in WC3 remains the exact same even while in metamorphosis form." Which is totally false as they gain a new ranged attack.

So you're treating the auto-attack as an ability now?

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They currently have access to Wailing Arrow and Withering Fire. Both Dark Ranger abilities.

Abilities granted them through a magical item. This is no different than warriors suddenly gaining druid abilities when they transform into a bear during that world quest in Ardenweald, or making shamans redundant because they could summon elementals back in BfA.

Wailing Arrow is already assigned as a Hunter ability

Because, as a game mechanic, it's added into the hunter's spellbook to be used.

[Triceron]

I've already explained that.


Which, as I've already explained, fits the concept of the demon hunter that has been presented so far.


Except I didn't lie, and the one saying "bullshit" here is you.

Doesn't matter if you said you explained it, cuz I am pointing out your explanation contradicts itself and is bullshit.

[deenman]

the next class will be dark rangers led by the redeemed fan favourite sylvanas.

That makes no sense,also it seems very likely sylvanas wont survive shadowlands,would be ironic how as a banshee she tried to avoid death by all means but once she is made whole again she wilingly gives her life up to defeat the jailer

i know the jailers defeat was datamined but do we know anything about sylvanas state after?

[Teriz]

Abilities granted them through a magical item. This is no different than warriors suddenly gaining druid abilities when they transform into a bear during that world quest in Ardenweald, or making shamans redundant because they could summon elementals back in BfA.

There's a vast difference between something happening during a quest, and a single class gaining an exclusive ability that only they can use.

Because, as a game mechanic, it's added into the hunter's spellbook to be used.

It's an ability though. An ability that only a Hunter can use anywhere and anytime for the remainder of the expansion.

You keep acting like this is some sort of coincidence when in reality it is purposeful design.

[deenman]

What would a dark ranger honestly do though to be frank? Would it just be a MM hunter with renamed spells? What is left for range dps to do that would fit into the game?

We have MM,and destro as plant your feet casters. Bm and demo as pet users and a host of specs fishing for procs or balancing resources or ramping for dmg.

When all is said and done what is left for a dark ranger to do?

the game would really benefit from a ranged non spell caster,hunter is the only one of its kind,an entire weapon arsenal with guns/bows/crossbows just for one class?and mail is also only used by 2 classes

i dont know if dark ranger has to be it however,maybe tinker would fit it? i know this class hasnt been sugested much,but it would be interesting,and flexible,dps with a gun,tank as a mech,heal with drones like in star wars

[Teriz]

the game would really benefit from a ranged non spell caster,hunter is the only one of its kind,an entire weapon arsenal with guns/bows/crossbows just for one class?and mail is also only used by 2 classes

i dont know if dark ranger has to be it however,maybe tinker would fit it? i know this class hasnt been sugested much,but it would be interesting,and flexible,dps with a gun,tank as a mech,heal with drones like in star wars

Regardless of what it is, I do agree that it should be physical ranged and challenge the Hunter class' monopoly on ranged weapons. We have far too many casters.

[Ielenia]

Doesn't matter if you said you explained it, cuz I am pointing out your explanation contradicts itself and is bullshit.

Now that is bullshit.

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There's a vast difference between something happening during a quest, and a single class gaining an exclusive ability that only they can use.

What is this "vast difference"? Explain. Also, "summoning an elemental" was not "a quest". It was the majority of BfA.

It's an ability though. An ability that only a Hunter can use anywhere and anytime for the remainder of the expansion.

A "hunter ability" in game mechanic terms. Items that grant long-term abilities like that add those abilities to the spellbook, like the Heart of Azeroth and Artifact Weapons.

[Teriz]

What is this "vast difference"? Explain. Also, "summoning an elemental" was not "a quest". It was the majority of BfA.

The difference is that an ability given by a quest is over when you complete the quest. Whereas you can keep and use Wailing Arrow indefinitely as long as you have the weapon equipped.

A "hunter ability" in game mechanic terms. Items that grant long-term abilities like that add those abilities to the spellbook, like the Heart of Azeroth and Artifact Weapons.

Yeah, but every class got Azeroth and Artifact weapons and abilities. Only the Hunter class got a Dark Ranger ability from Sylvanas.

It's another in a long line of Dark Ranger items and abilities going to the Hunter class.

[Candlewick]

the game would really benefit from a ranged non spell caster,hunter is the only one of its kind,an entire weapon arsenal with guns/bows/crossbows just for one class?and mail is also only used by 2 classes

i dont know if dark ranger has to be it however,maybe tinker would fit it? i know this class hasnt been sugested much,but it would be interesting,and flexible,dps with a gun,tank as a mech,heal with drones like in star wars

I don't know to be honest but I look at kites over classes.. maybe a class that fights in mid range between 10-20 yards?

It's hard to be honest. I would lean into warden to give warglaves a second use and kill 2 birds with one stone.

[Teriz]

I don't know to be honest but I look at kites over classes.. maybe a class that fights in mid range between 10-20 yards?

It's hard to be honest. I would lean into warden to give warglaves a second use and kill 2 birds with one stone.

The issue with Wardens is that they're too race specific, melee/agility-based, and their general concept revolves around poison blades and shadow abilities. Their ability concepts make them VERY similar to Rogues.