Seriously - Are People Actually Fine with SL's Vault System?

[Lolites]

M+ is supposed to be entry gearing before stepping in raid as an alternative to LFR difficulty a

well, no... devs themselves said its supposed to be alternative to raiding, so you are factualy wrong
as it is, its fine, i dont think the ONE mythic raid item that you can get per week is such an issue... especialy since if you ignore M+ you still can get gear from vault...

and sure, m+ is easier than raiding (well, mythic raiding, anything below is pretty easy itself), which is why currently mythic raid rewards BETTER gear... you can run M+30 and you still wont get as good reward as people clearing myhtic raid...

[Hellobolis]

the vault is fine but not really worth the loss of bonus rolls in most situations.

liked it for M+ early on but now valor is just more reliable for targeting specific items.

[Alcovex]

I'm just amazed that no one complained about the fact that instead of having 2 weekly chests like in bfa, we have one. (Since they combined the PvE + PvP chest into one).

[Pandragon]

My issues with the system are the M+ reqs. It should be 1/4/7 not 1/4/10. Also, when you get nothing in the vault you can use, the secondary reward should be a re-roll token. Not 3 coins that gives us a useless resource.

[Aurora]

It's objectively part of a terrible set of systems in the sense that it punishes people who enjoy M+ with a cap on actual rewards each week but benefits those who don't enjoy M+ by relieving them of the weekly chore after 1 or 4 runs while allowing them to not fall behind on gear. Which is dreadful design when you consider why a game is willfully incentivizing the player to do content they hate.

[Edward Wu]

Skimming over these 5 pages and, unsurprisingly, a lot of people missing my main point. Maybe I was unclear though, that could be it.

For me, it's not an issue of running M+ not being rewarding enough, or that I even want to go back to Titanforging (I do not), it's an immersion issue for me. I dislike where the loot placement currently is.

I want to find worthy loot in the dungeons themselves. Currently, running M+ is only an indirect method of acquiring gear, rather than a direct source like raiding. I want it to be a direct source of acquiring gear without a middle-man system. Is that really so hard to understand?

[ThatsOurEric]

No, I absolutely HATE the way gearing works in Shadowlands.

Doing several Mythic+ Dungeons, wiping dozens of times with nothing dropping for you
is not fun. It's not good/deep gameplay. It's a colossal waste of my fucking time.

The fact that the rewards have a chance (Imo, a VERY high chance) of being the same exact
fucking item you already have multiple times made me refuse to do any kind of Mythic+ for
this expansion.

[Tyris Flare]

Anything else than determinism is worse no matter how many bells and whistles you attach to it.

If you target a specific piece or need something specific than no amount of effort will make a difference due to bell curve distribution.

The problem with RNG isn't that it doesn't guarantee me a good time but that it guarantees that on some server there will be an miserable sod. He who puts same or even greater effort than me and yet gets to chose between joke items and has to pretend his 252 Spare Meat Hook is a worthy reward for doing 10 mythics+15. Meanwhile some boosted clown who cant even pull of ES combo right prances about with 252 Weapon after first week. Much fun, WoW!

This issue will be only exaggerated with tier sets as, once again, through bell curve distribution there will be an unlucky sod who cant land his final piece for 4 piece bonus or get a worthwhile item from GV to turn into a tier slot.
.

Basically yeah. Everyone has to know a friend(s) who has gotten shit in the vault multiple weeks in the row despite putting in a ton of effort. It is a big "I quit" moment, very demoralizing.

Obviously it is better than the chests of the previous expansions, yet somehow it feels worse because it is now the only way to get 252 items and it's like a 1/80 chance of getting what you want from dungeons.

(Again I think it's a little better for raids since there are fewer items and it's basically a bonus roll)

- - - Updated - - -

At the start of the expansion, no. Raid drops were too infrequent & M+ drops were too far behind. It felt like if you didn't get something from the Vault you were pretty screwed for the week, even if you had mythic on farm.

Right now? Absolutely. Raid drops are more frequent than at launch, M+ gear can be easily farmed & upgraded to a competitive item level, & the vault feels like the cherry on the cake rather than the be all & end all of gearing.

Don't you think it's weird to be playing the game for lottery tickets instead of killing bosses?

Clearly it was worse in 9.0 but it still feels bad and detaches people from killing boss -> get loot.

[Revamp Man]

I prefer the system they described to us over the system we got which was neutered to slow character progression

[cuafpr]

considering it continues to increase the gear gap between casual non to low instanced players and raiders/key pushers I'm not a fan. Obviously raiders/key pushers should have higher Ilvl but the gap is way too large currently. Also, if you don't raid/M+ getting gear is a PITA and reason I starting logging on less and less back at release due to lack of gear/character progression without raiding/M+

[Asrialol]

I think the vault is perfectly fine. People comparing how long it takes to get 3 raid option vs 3 m+ options makes me laugh. I also love how they leave out the pvp part of the vault. Strange, huh. Why compare two but leave out the third.

You can spam 10 mist keys and get it done in under 3 hours.

[Lollis]

Vault is far better than the chest from BFA and Valor is better than nothing, but what they really need to add is Badges so that people can work towards something properly.

Weekly Vault: Once a week chance to get a bis piece of gear.
Valor: To upgrade other pieces.
Badges: To either just flat out buy a piece for 200 or so (cost depends on slot), or upgrade a Valor piece to maximum ilevel for a lower fee (either requiring an item already maxed out by valor or increasing in price depending on ranks needed: undecided).

Badges should be a choice from weekly vault as well as dropping from all instanced pve content and should be weighted as follows:

You can only get up to 100 per week excluding vault choice, raids give you up to the highest difficulty completed (you can't just run each difficulty and get extra)
LFR: 1 from each boss, 2 from last two bosses: Max 12 in 10 boss raid.
Normal: 3 from each boss, 5 from last two bosses: Max 34 in 10 boss raid.
Heroic: 5 from each boss, 7 from last two bosses: Max 54 in 10 boss raid.
Mythic: 8 from each boss, 10 from last two bosses: Max 74 in 10 boss raid.

Normal Dungeon Daily: 1. Max 7 per week
Heroic Dungeon Daily: 1. Max 7 per week
Mythic Dungeon: 2 from last boss: Max 20 per reset for 10 dungeons.
Maximum of 34 badges per week from just doing dungeon content all of which can be done in addition to M+.

M+: 2 from end chest +1 every 3rd key level, up to maximum of 7 at +15 and above.

Vault Choice: Badges for each pve objective completed depend on rating of content
Value(maximum if objectives completed)
Raid: 1(3) for LFR, 3(9) For normal, 5(15) for Heroic, 8(24) for Mythic
M+: 1 for every 3 key levels up to maximum of 5 at +15 and above, maximum of 15 if objectives complete.

Clearing 10M+ at +15 and 9 Mythic raid bosses will give you the option of 39 badges instead of an item.

Capping Examples:

• Clearing Mythic Raid and all Mythic Dungeons would give you 94, allowing you to do a +12 or above to reach cap.
• Mythic Raid clear, three +15 and a +9 or higher.
• Fourteen 15+ and one source other than none end bosses in LFR.
• Heroic Raid Clear and ten +9.

Capping shouldn't be absolute cakewalk but it shouldn't be a massive chore either. These are just quick basic numbers but I don't think they are too unreasonable in allowing us to target a specific item every two weeks or so if you go all out.

[mickybrighteyes]

I think the vault is perfectly fine. People comparing how long it takes to get 3 raid option vs 3 m+ options makes me laugh. I also love how they leave out the pvp part of the vault. Strange, huh. Why compare two but leave out the third.

You can spam 10 mist keys and get it done in under 3 hours.

imo A far larger segment of people really only play pve OR pvp and don't care about doing them. Even if it gets them shots at upgrades.

[Razorice]

I don't mind the vault, why do people say it doesn't give competitive loot? 252 from vault is great.
Also, 10 dungeons isn't that much, considering "back in the day" you had to run 7 dungeons a week for Emblems.

[psyquest]

This is more of a question than a rant at this point, as I'm 9 months separated from the game as of writing this. This is also more in regards to how it pertains to M+ for the most part.

But are people really fine with how it currently is? I know people who exclusively play WoW can lose touch with fundamental design as they are sucked into its specific analytic/statistical design, and as they opt to no longer play other games since WoW demands such a heavy time investment, being what it is. I've seen little to no complaints regarding this, so I'm taking the default assumption that nobody in the WoW community cares or in fact actually likes the current setup.

Specifically, I'm talking about the fact that SL's Vault System massively changed how loot is rewarded in M+ dungeons from BfA to now. We went from a system where you could continuously run M+ dungeons for chance at great loot due to Titanforging and M+ loot being competitive to raid loot, to the current system that we have, where running M+ solely exists to add another slot to your Great Vault for increased loot choice quality.

My main issue with this is that I really like killing monsters and watching them drop quality loot. Currently, this is no longer possible with M+ as the mode does not reward competitive loot, but only serves a function of being an aggregator for your Vault rewards.

I would personally like to go back to enjoying seeing competitive loot drop in the dungeons themselves. Removing or redesigning the Vault System, however you go about it is required.

The vault is shite, it should have some bad luck protection.

Consider this:

My guild has cleared 10/10 mythic for 11 weeks without seing a single painsmith weapon on 2 DH 1 enhance 1 monk 1 rogue.
that is 11 weeks so 11 painsmith kills + 3 vaults chests x 5 players.

That is beyond stupid.

I wont even talk about shard of domination making a lot of mythic+ loot useless.

[shise]

M+ should never reward any loot of raid quality. Should always be a step behind.

And yes, it should come from drops and not from a vault. You should not be able to select an item. One should drop and then it should be group loot, so people need/green on t, maybe with filters to avoid ninja looting.

[Asrialol]

The vault is shite, it should have some bad luck protection.

Consider this:

My guild has cleared 10/10 mythic for 11 weeks without seing a single painsmith weapon on 2 DH 1 enhance 1 monk 1 rogue.
that is 11 weeks so 11 painsmith kills + 3 vaults chests x 5 players.

That is beyond stupid.

I wont even talk about shard of domination making a lot of mythic+ loot useless.

Why do you need a painsmith weapon if you're 10/10?

[TragedyAnn]

Honest to god - I've barely used it because I never do any of the stuff that earns pieces, lol.

The only time I ever get anything out of it is when I happen to kill 3 LFR bosses, and it's never an upgrade and gets tossed immediately.

[Argorwal]

Skimming over these 5 pages and, unsurprisingly, a lot of people missing my main point. Maybe I was unclear though, that could be it.

For me, it's not an issue of running M+ not being rewarding enough, or that I even want to go back to Titanforging (I do not), it's an immersion issue for me. I dislike where the loot placement currently is.

I want to find worthy loot in the dungeons themselves. Currently, running M+ is only an indirect method of acquiring gear, rather than a direct source like raiding. I want it to be a direct source of acquiring gear without a middle-man system. Is that really so hard to understand?

I feel the same way, I hate that a weekly lootcrate is a major gearing system in this game and would prefer it didn’t exist at all.

Make raids just drop 2 more items per 20 (6 instead of 4)

Make mythic+ go to 252 with valor at a certain rating (20s?)

PvP is just conquest like TBC-WoD.

Back to mythic+, would also divorce the dungeon from the key level. Let it just be a +x level key usable in any dungeon. Then players can do different dungeons based on their loot tables not some RNG on the key. I would also make the end of dungeon loot be 1 item per boss (1 item from each boss’s loot table) for the group, timed or untimed.

[Edward Wu]

I feel the same way, I hate that a weekly lootcrate is a major gearing system in this game and would prefer it didn’t exist at all.

Make raids just drop 2 more items per 20 (6 instead of 4)

Make mythic+ go to 252 with valor at a certain rating (20s?)

PvP is just conquest like TBC-WoD.

Back to mythic+, would also divorce the dungeon from the key level. Let it just be a +x level key usable in any dungeon. Then players can do different dungeons based on their loot tables not some RNG on the key. I would also make the end of dungeon loot be 1 item per boss (1 item from each boss’s loot table) for the group, timed or untimed.

I think keystones are just an outdated design idea. They need to move M+ design forward for sure.