WoW: Undermine a possible future expansion

[Teriz]

Introduction
In this season of leaks, I decided to go ahead and put forth another possibility for an expansion; Undermine: The planned continent from Vanilla WoW that due to time constraints was not added in the final release. Please note, I am not saying that Undermine is the next expansion, I am saying that it is a future expansion prospect due to its basis in lore, and statements made by Blizzard over the course of WoW's history.


Background
Undermine is the Goblin metropolis beneath the Island of Kezan. Its lore dates back to WC3 (if not earlier), and was actually planned as a continent in Vanilla WoW alongside a playable Goblin race. Undermine is the home location of various Goblin cartels, the incredibly wealthy Goblin trade princes, the trade coalition, the Venture Company, the Tinker's Union. In addition, there are various underground towns, slave markets, lavish palaces, and glass tunnels along the ocean floor that out of the main land mass that connect to underwater "island" caverns and other Goblin holdings. All of this was originally planned for Vanilla, but obviously the amount of work required was simply beyond the scope of the design team at the time;

Blizzard originally wanted to include Undermine in the original World of Warcraft along with goblins as a playable race, with Johnathan Staats describing it as "tinker town" and "crazy". However, as the team did not have a lot of goblin art assets, building the goblin homeland would have required "a ton" of work, leading to both Undermine and playable goblins being cut from classic WoW.[15]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L77uPm5cuTo&t=4257s

Goblins would eventually appear as a playable race in Cataclysm, and a small portion of the planned continent would appear as their starting zone. Since Kezan was devastated by Deathwing's awakening, many thought that Kezan along with Undermine were destroyed. However during a Q&A, a Blizzard developer stated that not only is Kezan and Undermine intact, but we would return to this location at some point in the future;

At BlizzCon 2010, Alex Afrasiabi said that the goblin starting zone was only "a small segment of the actual whole' of Kezan", and that the goblins "did want to go back to Undermine and the other goblin land holdings, just a question of when."[30]

http://wow.joystiq.com/2010/10/22/bl...panel-liveblog

Some of this was accomplished in BFA, with Kezan being considered a hotspot for Azerite, and the MOTHERLODE dungeon and Crappolis being feature. So while we got to see a few more land holdings, Undermine has still not been revealed.

Finally here's a brief article from Endgadget mentioning areas of Azeroth that at the time hadn't been explored in WoW. Interestingly, these locations were Undermine, Broken Isles, and Pandaria. As we know, we have Pandaria and Broken Isles as locations for expansions. Undermine still has not been featured in the game;

https://www.engadget.com/2011-08-07-...-pandaria.html

Reasons to Implement Undermine as an expansion
There are a few major reasons to implement Undermine, some of which I've already mentioned, but here are some things that immediately stick out in my mind;

1. It is one of the last continents from old school Warcraft that hasn't been featured in the game (everything else is Islands).
2. It would be an underground expansion, which gives players a locale that they have never experienced in previous expansions.
3. It opens up the possibility to incorporate the final 2 WC3 RTS heroes (Tinker and Alchemist) as a WoW class, since they are both Goblins.
4. It allows for a grounded expansion on Azeroth, something that Blizzard and the userbase seemingly desire after cosmic-based expansions.
5. Despite it being grounded, the rather unpredictable nature of Goblins and Gnomes allows the art team to really go wild with ideas.
6. It generates lore for races that often don't get much focus in WoW, and is a different side of the WC universe (Steampunk vs high fantasy).

Possible hints at future implementation:
1. Gazlowe taking over the Bildgewater Cartel and becoming a trade prince.
2. Kezan found to be still intact during BFA.
3. Gallywix missing after Sylvanas' abdication.
4. Hints of the Tinker class on Island Expeditions in BFA and Exile's Reach in Shadowlands
5. Kezan remaining a major source of Azerite, which indicates that Undermine would also be a major source of Azerite.
6. Blizzard inexplicably tying mechanicals and dragons together with the Timeless Mechanical Dragonling, and the Ironscale Incinerator post-BFA.
7. WoW Undermine April Fool's gag in 2021 by user Handclaw (long-shot I know, but that was a pretty extensive joke requiring a lot of art assets).

Anyway, that's it. Thanks for reading. We'll see if we get this in a future expansion. If not the next one, perhaps a few expansions down the road. There is also the possibility of it being added as part of an expansion.

Resources:
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Und...able%20mindset.
https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Kezan

[Edlarel]

I mean, I'm all for it, and even did a similar concept a few years' back. Here's what I had as well.

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...ansion-Concept

[Villager720]

I personally don't think I'd enjoy it.
I like that the game has the gobbos, but I don't like gobbos. So an expansion centered around them would truly be the most unappealing theme of any expansion thus far.

[LordVargK]

I personally don't think I'd enjoy it.
I like that the game has the gobbos, but I don't like gobbos. So an expansion centered around them would truly be the most unappealing theme of any expansion thus far.

This. Goblins are boring and one-dimensional.

[Teriz]

I personally don't think I'd enjoy it.
I like that the game has the gobbos, but I don't like gobbos. So an expansion centered around them would truly be the most unappealing theme of any expansion thus far.

I think you shouldn't look at it as simply a "Goblin expansion". Consider that (based on lore) Undermine is run by criminally corrupt (yet cosmopolitan) trade princes who run a business empire with denizens from all over the known world (and possibly beyond). Think of it more along the lines of Mos Eisley or Jabba's Palace in Star Wars, full of all sorts of wild creatures and characters from various parts of the universe.

[Edlarel]

*snip*

BTW, another hint at something going on is Gallywix turning up in a meeting in the Taza'vesh lounge where you fight the band.

[Teriz]

BTW, another hint at something going on is Gallywix turning up in a meeting in the Taza'vesh lounge where you fight the band.

That is interesting. I wonder if that will lead anywhere.

[Edward Wu]

1. It is one of the last continents from old school Warcraft that hasn't been featured in the game (everything else is Islands).

Probably because it's not interesting, or else it would have rotated into top priority by now.

2. It would be an underground expansion, which gives players a locale that they have never experienced in previous expansions.

No thanks, the last thing I want is another unrelatable landscape after we just got finished with the awful Shadowlands. Plus, if I wanted an underground expansion, I'd ask for Azjol-Nerub.

3. It opens up the possibility to incorporate the final 2 WC3 RTS heroes (Tinker and Alchemist) as a WoW class, since they are both Goblins.

The real reason you made this thread. The only reason. Another Tinker shill thread.

4. It allows for a grounded expansion on Azeroth, something that Blizzard and the userbase seemingly desire after cosmic-based expansions.

There's nothing grounded about Gnomes & Goblins. Goblins are the people building a fucking space rocket in Netherstorm for Thrall's sake. Gnomes have an orbital laser hovering over the planet. Please.

5. Despite it being grounded, the rather unpredictable nature of Goblins and Gnomes allows the art team to really go wild with ideas.

If I want zany, wacky Hearthstone, I'll play it.

6. It generates lore for races that often don't get much focus in WoW, and is a different side of the WC universe (Steampunk vs high fantasy).

Refer to reply #1. They do not get much attention because they are not very interesting. They fit small pockets here and there, but do not deserve an entire expansion dedicated to them.

[DatToffer]

Do you think we should still consider Undermine a continent, since it's just Kezan's underground and we know Kezan is just one island ingame ?

Is there a precedent of already implemented places that suddenly got bigger for the needs of an expansion ?

[Directionalk9]

This at most comes off as a zone in an expansion, not the foundation of a whole expansion. Also I just can't imagine that Blizz would ever dedicate and entire expansion to Goblins or Gnomes, while they are/can be cool they have a severely limited appeal factor.

[Teriz]

Probably because it's not interesting, or else it would have rotated into top priority by now.

There’s a history of ideas that were supposed to be implemented earlier, but we’re pushed back. Demon Hunters and Pandaren for example. They were pushed back due to a variety of issues. Lack of interest was not one of them.

No thanks, the last thing I want is another unrelatable landscape after we just got finished with the awful Shadowlands. Plus, if I wanted an underground expansion, I'd ask for Azjol-Nerub.

You can actually provide a very wide variety of landscapes underground. Anything from ocean floors to underground deserts to molten cores can be featured.Further the landmass will be on Azeroth, so it won’t be unrelatable since we’ve dwelled in such places multiple times in WoW. Hell, Azjol-Nerub could even be featured.

The real reason you made this thread. The only reason. Another Tinker shill thread.

The variety of hints of a possible incoming Tinker class in both BFA and Shadowlands facilitates a discussion of what type of expansion such a class could be implemented.

There's nothing grounded about Gnomes & Goblins. Goblins are the people building a fucking space rocket in Netherstorm for Thrall's sake. Gnomes have an orbital laser hovering over the planet. Please.

And they’ve been part of Warcraft lore since the beginning. So yeah, they are as Warcraft as Orcs, Humans, Elves, and demons. Your personal tastes and opinions do not override that fact.

If I want zany, wacky Hearthstone, I'll play it.

Nothing wrong with a little levity in WoW as well.

Refer to reply #1. They do not get much attention because they are not very interesting. They fit small pockets here and there, but do not deserve an entire expansion dedicated to them.

In your opinion.

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Do you think we should still consider Undermine a continent, since it's just Kezan's underground and we know Kezan is just one island ingame ?

Is there a precedent of already implemented places that suddenly got bigger for the needs of an expansion ?

Kezan is the surface, not Undermine itself. Additionally, there’s been several occasions where we return to locations that have been expanded upon. Draenor being the largest example, but Kezan itself in BFA being another one. Also, we have the words from the developer saying that Goblins will return to Kezan and get to see Undermine.

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This at most comes off as a zone in an expansion, not the foundation of a whole expansion. Also I just can't imagine that Blizz would ever dedicate and entire expansion to Goblins or Gnomes, while they are/can be cool they have a severely limited appeal factor.

That’s definitely a possibility. I could definitely see it either helming an expansion, or being part of a larger one.

[Wonderment2]

I wouldn't want an entire Undermine Expansion, caves just aren't interesting enough to me but through in Tel'abim plunder isle etc sure.

But I agree there's enough groundwork for it to be plausible

[deenman]

I wonder what new and interesting and never before heard of class could be spawned from the bowels of such an expansion concept??

[Wharren]

I would only like Kezan/Undermine if it was not the focus of the whole expansion. Instead, have Undermine be the main city and questing zone that explores interesting areas of Underground Azeroth.

It could be Suramar levels of developed and interesting, just I don’t think it could carry an expansion by itself.

[Teriz]

I wouldn't want an entire Undermine Expansion, caves just aren't interesting enough to me but through in Tel'abim plunder isle etc sure.

But I agree there's enough groundwork for it to be plausible

Well it wouldn't be just caves, it would more than likely be buildings and roads built into caverns and caves. Example;




Also Goblin architecture tends to be a bit more vibrant, so a street scene would look more like this;



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I would only like Kezan/Undermine if it was not the focus of the whole expansion. Instead, have Undermine be the main city and questing zone that explores interesting areas of Underground Azeroth.

It could be Suramar levels of developed and interesting, just I don’t think it could carry an expansion by itself.

Definitely a possibility to consider.

[Edward Wu]

Lack of interest was not one of them.

Less than 1% of the playerbase plays Pandaren. Bad example.

You can actually provide a very wide variety of landscapes underground. Anything from ocean floors to underground deserts to molten cores can be featured.

It's not about variety, it's about relatability. Shadowlands had variety. It wasn't relatable, and neither is Undermine. People clearly want classic fantasy themes after this nonsense. Undermine does not provide that.

And they’ve been part of Warcraft lore since the beginning. So yeah, they are as Warcraft as Orcs, Humans, Elves, and demons. Your personal tastes and opinions do not override that fact.

This is hardcore shifting of the goalposts. You were not talking about whether they were or were not a staple to WoW lore, you were talking about whether they felt they satisfied classic fantasy tropes. You are clearly being dishonest here. Neither race is anything even approaching grounded. Footmen striking Orc with sword is grounded. Laser beams and talking chicken AI is not.

In your opinion.

An opinion that continues to be reinforced as you continue to be denied what you want, lol.

[TheWorkingTitle]

Goblins and Gnomes are comedic relief/gimmicky. It'd be foolish and potentially playerbase-killing to base an entire expansion off them. They're relegated to small zones or quest hubs such as Area 52, Booty Bay, and Mechagon.

And Tinkers are completely covered by the engineering profession and mecha-mounts/pets/mogs. It would be the final nail in the coffin, driving a majority of the remaining players away

[Buliwyf the Omen]

I smell Tinkers, lads, and I smell em coming big and blastinglike.

[username993720]

Aren't you tired of writing about the same subject over and over again? If i were you, i'd get tech fatigue.
Is there anything else that interests you about the game? Asking for real.

[Teriz]

Less than 1% of the playerbase plays Pandaren. Bad example.

It's actually closer to 3%, and MoP is regarded as one of the top WoW expansions. That said, current Pandaren population isn't really the point.

It's not about variety, it's about relatability. Shadowlands had variety. It wasn't relatable, and neither is Undermine. People clearly want classic fantasy themes after this nonsense. Undermine does not provide that.

I'd like to see the poll where the userbase said they want classic fantasy themes. Last I checked, the userbase wants an expansion based on Azeroth.

This is hardcore shifting of the goalposts. You were not talking about whether they were or were not a staple to WoW lore, you were talking about whether they felt they satisfied classic fantasy tropes. You are clearly being dishonest here. Neither race is anything even approaching grounded. Footmen striking Orc with sword is grounded. Laser beams and talking chicken AI is not.

If we have a fantasy franchise that has always had robots, airships, and steampunk, then those elements are grounded within the realm of that fantasy franchise. WoW is not Everquest or Elder Scrolls. There were Gnome and Goblin Submarines and airships in Warcraft 2. There were Goblins riding inside mechs and steam tanks destroying buildings in WC3. You personally may not like these things, but you can't argue that such things are not grounded in Warcraft lore.

An opinion that continues to be reinforced as you continue to be denied what you want, lol.

It's not about what I want, it's about possible expansion concepts. Like it or not, the Undermine is one of them.

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Goblins and Gnomes are comedic relief/gimmicky. It'd be foolish and potentially playerbase-killing to base an entire expansion off them. They're relegated to small zones or quest hubs such as Area 52, Booty Bay, and Mechagon.

Incorrect. Goblins have also been traditional Warcraft antagonists stretching all the way back to the RTS games. In WoW we encountered rather formidable Goblin enemies like the Venture Company and the Blackfuse Company.

And Tinkers are completely covered by the engineering profession and mecha-mounts/pets/mogs. It would be the final nail in the coffin, driving a majority of the remaining players away

Considering that engineering is not a class nor houses any of the Tinker's abilities, and the Tinker is a hero concept from both WC3, HotS, and TTRPG, and the Tinker is consistently ranked as one of the most requested and popular class concepts in the game (hence why it continuously pops up in expansion "leaks"), I simply can't agree with that assessment.