[SPOILER]Khadgar, Wrathion and Tyrande will be important characters in Dragonflight.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Good to see Khadgar will be back. Tyrande can go home, I’m bored of her. I just wonder since the world is healed if Khadgar’s aging spell is somehow lifted. It would be nice to see him happy and funny rather than old and grumpy guy.

[Al Gorefiend]

Horde died when blood elves became more played than orcs, trolls, tauren and goblins combined.

Then they gave them Demon Hunters.

[Ardenaso]

Stop asking for bloodthirsty warmongers then being surprised when they're not involved in situations that don't have genocide as a solution.

I didn't ask for that, I was asking for neutral characters to take the spotlight instead or if it's Alliance anyway, then at least not Tyrande for 4 times now

[Toho]

All the people complaining about Tyrande are just Horde players that are mad an Alliance character is not groveling at their feet at their mere presence.

Same thing happened with Jaina.
Same thing happened with Genn.

Funny coincidence? I don't think so.
Tyrande is on the screen for like 10 minutes each expansion. She is mad, doesn't accomplish anything and then disappears again.

[Lolites]

well, ill keep hoping Tyrande is important bcs she dies

- - - Updated - - -

All the people complaining about Tyrande are just Horde players that are mad an Alliance character is not groveling at their feet at their mere presence.

Same thing happened with Jaina.
Same thing happened with Genn.

im pretty sure people are mad at Jaina for commiting ethnic purge, which she was never punished for, quite contrary become even MORE IMPORTANT in alliance, as for Genn, well i know alliance players think commiting war crimes is fine if its against horde but no, attacking your (reluctant) allies without provocation for PERSONAL reasons, despite your direct orders, during biggest conflict in millenia is dnot a good thing, its definitely something to be pissed about, especialy since, once again, he didnt even get a slap on wrist...

im not saying horde leaders are some examples of virtue (quite the opposite) but they did at least get punished for their warcrimes, alliance leaders get PROMOTED for theirs...

[Super Dickmann]

All the people complaining about Tyrande are just Horde players that are mad an Alliance character is not groveling at their feet at their mere presence.

Same thing happened with Jaina.
Same thing happened with Genn.

Funny coincidence? I don't think so.
Tyrande is on the screen for like 10 minutes each expansion. She is mad, doesn't accomplish anything and then disappears again.

The issue with Jaina is that I have to do her bitchwork and feel sorry for her instead of having her be an actual opposing character, culminating with that parodic scene where Bob sends the PC to kill the blood elves who were assmad about her imprisoning them at her side. Her arc towards forgiving the Horde is incoherent nonsense that does nothing but revert her to the sleeping aid that is her WC3 personality and her continued presence after her story has already wrapped up with BFA does nothing but suck up screen time that could be filled with something more worthwhile. Ditto Genn's lowest moment is him inexplicably forgiving the Forsaken and spending BFA as Anduin's doormat.

[Toho]

im pretty sure people are mad at Jaina for commiting ethnic purge, which she was never punished for, quite contrary become even MORE IMPORTANT in alliance, as for Genn, well i know alliance players think commiting war crimes is fine if its against horde but no, attacking your (reluctant) allies without provocation for PERSONAL reasons, despite your direct orders, during biggest conflict in millenia is dnot a good thing, its definitely something to be pissed about, especialy since, once again, he didnt even get a slap on wrist...

im not saying horde leaders are some examples of virtue (quite the opposite) but they did at least get punished for their warcrimes, alliance leaders get PROMOTED for theirs...

Here we go with the Horde made up talking points and false equivalency arguments. Your entire post is just factually wrong and if the Horde was actually and realistically "punished" their entire cast of characters from A grade all the way to C grade would have to be executed.
Baine included. Believe it or not supporting a war criminal kind of makes you just as responsible as they are.

The only one left alive would be Thrall and only because he wasn't around for Azeroth Hitler #1 or #2.

The issue with Jaina is that I have to do her bitchwork and feel sorry for her instead of having her be an actual opposing character, culminating with that parodic scene where Bob sends the PC to kill the blood elves who were assmad about her imprisoning them at her side. Her arc towards forgiving the Horde is incoherent nonsense that does nothing but revert her to the sleeping aid that is her WC3 personality and her continued presence after her story has already wrapped up with BFA does nothing but suck up screen time that could be filled with something more worthwhile. Ditto Genn's lowest moment is him inexplicably forgiving the Forsaken and spending BFA as Anduin's doormat.

Yeah and thats why they made Jaina fall in love with the Horde again because of the Horde players nonstop complaining. They even made the Dreadlord meme because somehow a character who didn't worship the player dared to exist. Give it time Tyrande will be composing Horde love ballads soon enough.

[Tanaria]

Can we have Arcanist Valtrois instead of Tyrande, as far as the Night Elf presence goes?

You know - she did have a moment with Stellagosa of the Blue Dragonflight..

[Toho]

Can we have Arcanist Valtrois instead of Tyrande, as far as the Night Elf presence goes?

You know - she did have a moment with Stellagosa of the Blue Dragonflight..

Tyrande's sole role in Dragon Isles is going to be talking to Ysera's kid about how great Ysera was. I doubt she would be around for more than 15 minutes before taking the next flight into end of expansion as a background character in the new aspect's coronation ceremony.

[Aydinx2]

May the Horde rest in peace.


https://www.wowhead.com/news/dragonf...-mythic-326780

>multiple expansions where Horde races are featured constantly, either as the villains or other side of the same conflict
>complain that the Alliance finally gets some representation

you're kidding right?

[Tanaria]

Tyrande's sole role in Dragon Isles is going to be talking to Ysera's kid about how great Ysera was. I doubt she would be around for more than 15 minutes before taking the next flight into end of expansion as a background character in the new aspect's coronation ceremony.

I hope so.

Feels like Danuser's second waifu now that Sylvanas has gone.

[Aucald]

All the people complaining about Tyrande are just Horde players that are mad an Alliance character is not groveling at their feet at their mere presence.

Same thing happened with Jaina.
Same thing happened with Genn.

Funny coincidence? I don't think so.
Tyrande is on the screen for like 10 minutes each expansion. She is mad, doesn't accomplish anything and then disappears again.

Tyrande was a marquee NPC in both BfA and Shadowlands, competing with Sylvanas in the "Chewing the Scenery" competition in 2nd place. I'm generally of the mind that marquee NPCs are ideally best done in single-serving turns in the spotlight per expansion. That being said, it's not a faction-specific dislike (at least for me), since I felt the same about Sylvanas, and she herself is in 2nd place overall to WoW's worst offender for chewing the scenery: Garrosh Hellscream. Jaina's had her turn at the spotlight as well, but at least Jaina isn't quite so prominent in Shadowlands, to the point that I wouldn't quite call her marquee as she's really only directly involved with the intro scenario, and the rest is bit parts. The fact that Tyrande continually recurs throughout BfA and Shadowlands, becoming the Night Warrior and engaging in a personal vendetta with Sylvanas in which she accomplishes nothing actually makes it worse as opposed to better, as well.

[Toho]

Tyrande was a marquee NPC in both BfA and Shadowlands, competing with Sylvanas in the "Chewing the Scenery" competition in 2nd place. I'm generally of the mind that marquee NPCs are ideally best done in single-serving turns in the spotlight per expansion. That being said, it's not a faction-specific dislike (at least for me), since I felt the same about Sylvanas, and she herself is in 2nd place overall to WoW's worst offender for chewing the scenery: Garrosh Hellscream. Jaina's had her turn at the spotlight as well, but at least Jaina isn't quite so prominent in Shadowlands, to the point that I wouldn't quite call her marquee as she's really only directly involved with the intro scenario, and the rest is bit parts. The fact that Tyrande continually recurs throughout BfA and Shadowlands, becoming the Night Warrior and engaging in a personal vendetta with Sylvanas in which she accomplishes nothing actually makes it worse as opposed to better, as well.

I think you definitely have a bias against her which makes you hyper sensitive to her presence. Factually speaking She is barely there, she pops in once in a while in 1 zone before disappearing again. Just as she was in BFA.

She showed up for one scene in prepatch.
Then one questline for darkshore warfront.
and then she showed up for one last scene in BFA armistice signing.

Lets be honest here and admit the 3 minutes Tyrande has an onscreen appearence feels like 3 hours to some people. Now if the entire narrative was wrapped around Tyrande like Sylvanas. If Tyrande's story spanned several 4k movie level cinematics that released with every game patch update... you would have a point.
But you don't. And you know you don't.

Fact is Tyrande doesn't like the Horde so she gets hated. Jaina suffered the same dislike for many years back in MoP before she ever committed the quote on quote ethnic cleansing.

[Xilurm]

Tyrande makes sense to be there at the Ohn'ahran Plains where the Green Dragonflight resides. But even for the rest of the isles because it's another place which is ancient, as ancient as the Night Elves and even more so.

Wrathion being there is obvious. But why Khadgar? I don't get it. Do we really need him?

The more of the Jaina/Thrall/Baine axis is not on-screen and preferably deported to mine nickel in Norilsk, the better.

Yes please. There was absolutely no reason for Jaina to be in Shadowlands aswell, literally. She's starting to become a mary sue and it's annoying. "Oh, I almost escaped this DEATH PRISON a few hundred times already you know." Then why the fuck are we even there?

Oh and for the love of God. Please no Jaina x Kalec relationship stuff. PLEASE! Her first love was Arthas, she got zero fucking closure in Shadowlands. Her whole story should have ended in Wrath together with the rest of the WC3 cast, but they decided to 180 her entire character. The more Jaina is around, the worse her character becomes.

It won't surprise me in the least if he doesn't play a role, nor if he does. Do you know how many obvious and major connections that have not been touched on when relevant story themes have arisen?

I mean, I can understand the story going in a different direction, but their failure to mention them sometimes and provide a valid excuse makes me think they have forgotten part of their lore and don't know it well enough. Afrisiaibi needed to carry a book.. most die-hard fans do not, they know the lore that well

I remember the interview that Pyromancer had with Madeleine Roux, and at one point she said something like "no one can remember the entire lore" and he answered with "oh yes, absolutely" when they were talking about people complaining about inconsistencies and I'm like... Are you fucking serious?

It's the writers JOB to remember the entire lore, and if you don't, then open a book or some wikia... There's tons of information everywhere. There's no excuse for fans to know more about the lore than the writers. You have months to writer a good story!

I hope so.

Feels like Danuser's second waifu now that Sylvanas has gone.

That doesn't bode well.

[Aucald]

I think you definitely have a bias against her which makes you hyper sensitive to her presence. Factually speaking She is barely there, she pops in once in a while in 1 zone before disappearing again. Just as she was in BFA.

She showed up for one scene in prepatch.
Then one questline for darkshore warfront.
and then she showed up for one last scene in BFA armistice signing.

Lets be honest here and admit the 3 minutes Tyrande has an onscreen appearence feels like 3 hours to some people. Now if the entire narrative was wrapped around Tyrande like Sylvanas. If Tyrande's story spanned several 4k movie level cinematics that released with every game patch update... you would have a point.
But you don't. And you know you don't.

Fact is Tyrande doesn't like the Horde so she gets hated. Jaina suffered the same dislike for many years back in MoP before she ever committed the quote on quote ethnic cleansing.

I like how you ignored 90% of what I said and just zeroed right back "yeah, you're definitely biased and you hate the Alliance." Granted, I don't and have never liked Tyrande as a character, either - I'd much rather prefer Malfurion appear in her stead in Dragonflight, or maybe Broll Bearmantle, or that she should cede the spotlight entirely to Merithra so that she can grow as a character without being overshadowed by a stage-hog. But yeah, my dislike for Tyrande, similar to my dislike for Sylvanas, makes her every recurrence in the story feel a lot more significant (and annoying) than they probably are objectively.

But also think you're playing fast and loose with your coverage here, as well. Tyrande's role in BfA is pretty significant to the story, and the whole "she only appears collectively for like X minutes" claim is something that applies to *all* the characters we've mentioned. Actual screen-time is only part of the equation when it comes to being a marquee character - what Tyrande does informs a lot of the story, and whether or not she's currently mid-monologue doesn't mean that the story spends a lot of time reacting to her presence whenever it occurs.

- She's a significant part of the War of Thorns event in the pre-patch, and capstones the events of Elegy and A Good War.
- She's involved at Stormwind planning the Silithus campaign.
- The large quest-line where she becomes the Night Warrior, and the significance of that role, can't be understated for BfA.
- She's involved in the Darkshore Warfront, including the in-game event and a prominent cinematic accompanying it.
- She's involved in the event where Delaryn Summermoon is raised and is actually fought to an effective standstill (which people still talk about to this day).
- She's in Kul Tiras for their official joining of the Alliance.
- She makes a big scene at the peace treaty ceremony in Stormwind, where she cements her vengeful lust for Sylvanas.
- She personally appears to finally kill Nathanos in the Shadowlands pre-patch event.
- She's a big part of Shadows Rising, as well.
- She's involved in the Shadowlands opening event, forcing her way into the Maw at Icecrown.
- She's a huge part of the Night Fae campaign, which involves tracking her down in the Maw and dealing with Night Warrior stuff that's killing her.
- She pops back into prominence at the beginning of the Korthia arc, going toe-to-toe with Sylvanas and losing.
- She has to be stabilized before Elune's power kills her, another lengthy quest chain.
- She fundamentally closes out the overall arc of Shadowlands by trying and condemning Sylvanas to durance in the Maw.

So yeah, it's a bit more than "3 minutes" on screen, and that's not even including all the stuff connected to her in both stories.

[Arrashi]

What a fascinating characters and well balanced cast. I hope we will get a good dose of Jainas suffering this expansion too.

[Toho]

I like how you ignored 90% of what I said and just zeroed right back "yeah, you're definitely biased and you hate the Alliance." Granted, I don't and have never liked Tyrande as a character, either - I'd much rather prefer Malfurion appear in her stead in Dragonflight, or maybe Broll Bearmantle, or that she should cede the spotlight entirely to Merithra so that she can grow as a character without being overshadowed by a stage-hog. But yeah, my dislike for Tyrande, similar to my dislike for Sylvanas, makes her every recurrence in the story feel a lot more significant (and annoying) than they probably are objectively.

So I was entirely correct in my assumption.
And yeah I like to get to the point of the post... rather than you know... waste time on nonsense.

- She's involved in the Darkshore Warfront, including the in-game event and a prominent cinematic accompanying it.

That entire cinematic was about Malfurion. Dude she is there for less than 2 seconds as the camera pans out.
This is the exact thing I am talking about here. Tyrande breaths and there is a cacophony of complaints of her being too present and hugging in the spotlight. Even though all she does is literally stand there after us sitting through another character's fight sequence and dialogue.
Three of your points above are from the darkshore questline that I already mentioned but it seems everytime you blink or look away and see her again is yet another case of Tyrande overstaying her welcome.

So yeah, it's a bit more than "3 minutes" on screen, and that's not even including all the stuff connected to her in both stories.

First off I was only talking about BFA and you had to pad your list to make it as long and varied as you FEEL that it is rather then the actual reality.
If you want to argue Tyrande had prominent role then let me use your criteria of

She's in Kul Tiras for their official joining of the Alliance.

To say that wow... Velen and the Dwarves have really overstayed their welcome in BFA. With all that standing around. How dare they? haha

[Feanoro]

World peace makes everyone a bitch on its inevitable march towards total homogeneity. One of the reasons Tyrande's more tolerable despite appearing constantly is because she's one of those who took until SL to get the requisite brain damage and even there at least had some lines that couldn't be delivered by anyone else in the Bland Gang. The bar is extremely low for that role and I'd sooner have her for another two expansions than see Jaina on my screen again, which of course I will because she's porking a dragon. Tiresome.

Thank you for being consistent. It's baffling when I see other Hordies complain that Alliance is boring, yet howl bloody murder when an Alliance character doesn't worship the Horde.

Re: Moira

She and dwarves were ruined either in Cataclysm or, most charitably, Mists when Varian overthrew her singlehanded and then changed their entire leadership and culture turning them from an imperial and technological powerhouse of the Alliance into a perpetual punchline that has done nothing for 12 years now.

True, but they're not beyond redemption like say Night Elves and Forsaken. The best result for any race in WoW is to be ignored.

- - - Updated - - -

So I was entirely correct in my assumption.

Despite all the protests to the contrary you're going to get, yes.

[Toho]

A lot of people are complaining about Alliance characters showing up again.

But I wonder which Horde characters should show up here?

Orcs? The old legacy of the Horde and the Dragonmaw? Should the Horde Orcs go on another apology tour? I am into it. Sure why not.
Forsaken? Raising undead dragons?
Tauren? lol
Trolls? Primordial Trolls... yeah maybe but who? Rokhan? Talanji?

Blood Elves and Nightborne are going to show up anyway but idk how relevant Thalyssra or Lorthemar will be.

[Aucald]

So I was entirely correct in my assumption.
And yeah I like to get to the point of the post... rather than you know... waste time on nonsense.

"Nonsense" in this case being "anything that conflicts with my stated opinion," as per usual? Your stated assumption was that anyone who didn't want more of Tyrande is obviously biased against the Alliance in general, which my "nonsense" as you put it went to show wasn't true, at least for me (and probably a lot of other people you wanted to tar). I don't like Tyrande specifically, as a character, which isn't related to her being Alliance. I didn't like her in WC3, either, well before she was even part of the Alliance. I like Malfurion, Broll, Genn, and Jaina just fine. I actually even like Anduin, which is something of a heavy black mark for me in more Horde-centric circles. He's a naive idealist, sure; but in a way that makes sense both contextually and thematically as a major character. He's also pretty bad for chewing the scenery of late, as well; but since I don't find him objectionable it's not as bad an issue for me at least.

That entire cinematic was about Malfurion. Dude she is there for less than 2 seconds as the camera pans out.
This is the exact thing I am talking about here. Tyrande breaths and there is a cacophony of complaints of her being too present and hugging in the spotlight. Even though all she does is literally stand there after us sitting through another character's fight sequence and dialogue.
Three of your points above are from the darkshore questline that I already mentioned but it seems everytime you blink or look away and see her again is yet another case of Tyrande overstaying her welcome.

Tyrande's presence, and that of the Night Warrior story-arc, overshadows and underpins the majority of the Darkshore Warfront and its content. It's quite literally why there is a Warfront to begin with - as the Night Warrior she's leading the offensive to rout the now-occupying Horde forces from Night Elven territory. You're hyper-focused on the whole "character visibly on the screen" runtime, completely discounting the notion that she's literally leading the charge as the arc's most important player (which is kind of what "marquee" actually means in narrative terms). Even off-screen, her presence and role are critically important to the arc.

First off I was only talking about BFA and you had to pad your list to make it as long and varied as you FEEL that it is rather then the actual reality.

I mean, that *is* what we're talking about, right? The entire point of this exercise?

To say that wow... Velen and the Dwarves have really overstayed their welcome in BFA. With all that standing around. How dare they? haha

And if Velen and Dwarves had been involved in all the other roles and spotlights I'd mentioned, that would also be true, yes. Hell, I kind of wish Velen had that kind of turn in the spotlight, he's probably one of the Alliance's most criminally underused and underdeveloped NPCs. He's got the dubious distinction of an effective AU copy of him stealing his own spotlight, which is another issue entirely.