Are people really okay with the "new" race restrictions?

[nToxik]

The new Dracthyr race and specs will be fine.

[kenn9530]

So being half dragon means you don’t know how to punch someone or use a weapon to smack someone? They can use magic but can’t be mages? Obviously they couldn’t be DKs or DHs for lore reasons, but there are still several archetypes they could be.

Why would you want to be the mage class in WoW if you have what is considered more powerful magic, this is a game so it makes no sense for a race to give up powers they are born with to be something lesser, in reality they could learn whatever they wanted but a game has to have limitations. In a world with magic a warrior would be the weakest class, the new class and race would be considered the strongest magic users.

[Syegfryed]

It really doesn't make sense though, at least not with the lore we know. If the Dracthyr were separated from the world for thousands of years, who would've taught them how to be Warriors? Not just how to hold a sword, but how to properly be Warriors? It takes more to be a Fury Warrior than grabbing 2 massive 2H swords & screaming loudly.

....who do you think teach races to be their things? do you think they are created all knowing?

You are reading entirely wrong, they had 10 thousand of years of time in training and discovering things, just like the other races we have, trolls learn on their own, humans too, orcs, draenei.

Look at pandarens, they learn by themselves and create their own style of shamanism, arcane arts, fighting.

By those devs logic, pandaren should only be monk, that is just lazy.

Plus, look at their hands. They don't appear to have strong grip muscles around their thumbs, something absolutely necessary for wielding a massive sword & hitting a strong beast without losing the blade.From a purely hand anatomy standpoint, they do not appear to have the hand muscles they would need to best wield such weaponry. The more buff models might, but we really haven't seen much of those at this point.

You wanna come with that argument when we have gnomes and elves in the game? did you see a wrist of an elf? the arm of a gnome?

come on now.

[Dractier]

....who do you think teach races to be their things? do you think they are created all knowing?

You are reading entirely wrong, they had 10 thousand of years of time in training and discovering things, just like the other races we have, trolls learn on their own, humans too, orcs, draenei.

Look at pandarens, they learn by themselves and create their own style of shamanism, arcane arts, fighting.

By those devs logic, pandaren should only be monk, that is just lazy.



You wanna come with that argument when we have gnomes and elves in the game? did you see a wrist of an elf? the arm of a gnome?

come on now.

Except dracthyr were created by neltharion, for a specific reason to be a dragon/mortal hybrid, and they specifically were trained in one specific way. Dracthyr are not like pandaren at all. Think of something like a lich. A lich is created to be a lich and use nercotric magic. A lich isn’t made to be a warrior or a mage even though they may have some similarities in their abilities they aren’t made to be either.

[AngerFork]

....who do you think teach races to be their things? do you think they are created all knowing?

You are reading entirely wrong, they had 10 thousand of years of time in training and discovering things, just like the other races we have, trolls learn on their own, humans too, orcs, draenei.

Look at pandarens, they learn by themselves and create their own style of shamanism, arcane arts, fighting.

By those devs logic, pandaren should only be monk, that is just lazy.

They are not created all knowing. Knowledge/techniques are generally passed down through generations of masters & students to build & adapt upon such fighting styles. The Dracthyr haven't had those generations, they've been stuck on the Forbidden Reach for some time with no real way to contact the outside world or knowledge such a world was there. They really haven't had teachers, nor reasons to learn such things given their innate abilities (as well as Neltharion's design).

Compare that with the Pandaren who may well have had some knowledge of such skills before the Sundering as well as a need for weaponry to fight back against the Mogu & Mantid. Pandaren needed the tools & weaponry, the Dracthyr really never would have given their powers. Sure, the Monk style helped them quite a bit, but it's not like they were fully removed from other tools. Plus the Pandaren with their exploratory & curious nature had some of their people visit the mainland here or there, such as Chen Stormstout. Information might well have been learned there.

You wanna come with that argument when we have gnomes and elves in the game? did you see a wrist of an elf? the arm of a gnome?

come on now.

Gnomes may not be big, but that doesn't mean they aren't strong. I could absolutely see it being hard to actually pull/knock something out of their hand, not just for the height difference but because they could absolutely have a decent grip. Elves tend to fight more with finesse & technique as per the Sylvanas book, but they have also had a long time to train as well as generational knowledge. Such things could absolutely help them adjust for things like wrist strength (which I'm still not convinced is as much of a problem as you see it anyhow).

[Drusin]

Don't care, it'll be loosened in time, I know they'll add more so I don't even know why they bother having restrictions in the first place.

[Syegfryed]

Except dracthyr were created by neltharion, for a specific reason to be a dragon/mortal hybrid, and they specifically were trained in one specific way. Dracthyr are not like pandaren at all.

And they got abandoned for 10k of years, they had plenty of time to learn new stuff

Just like pandarens, that after freeing themselves from the mogu, ahd enough time to developt their things

Think of something like a lich. A lich is created to be a lich and use nercotric magic. A lich isn’t made to be a warrior or a mage even though they may have some similarities in their abilities they aren’t made to be either.

Nope, this isn't like a lich, at all.

And everyone cna become a lich.

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They are not created all knowing.

No race was, but with time they developt new techines new things, if, they have enough inteligence, and they sure have.

Knowledge/techniques are generally passed down through generations of masters & students to build & adapt upon such fighting styles. The Dracthyr haven't had those generations,

And who taught the first masters? an alien? a god? or, like any other culture, they create their techiniques by themselves after learning things on their own?

they had 10 thousand of years to do those stuff, unless they are mentally capped.

they've been stuck on the Forbidden Reach for some time with no real way to contact the outside world or knowledge such a world was there. They really haven't had teachers, nor reasons to learn such things given their innate abilities (as well as Neltharion's design).

there is no necessity of teachers or outside knoledge

Pandarens created stuff on their own, trolls create stuff on their own, etc etc.

Again, this is lame excuse from the writers

Gnomes may not be big, but that doesn't mean they aren't strong. I could absolutely see it being hard to actually pull/knock something out of their hand, not just for the height difference but because they could absolutely have a decent grip. Elves tend to fight more with finesse & technique as per the Sylvanas book, but they have also had a long time to train as well as generational knowledge. Such things could absolutely help them adjust for things like wrist strength (which I'm still not convinced is as much of a problem as you see it anyhow).

Good, now use this same argument for dracthyr and see how its nonsense to say they can't wield a wepaon because their hands don't apepar to ahve a strong grip.

[Dractier]

And they got abandoned for 10k of years, they had plenty of time to learn new stuff

Just like pandarens, that after freeing themselves from the mogu, ahd enough time to developt their things



Nope, this isn't like a lich, at all.

And everyone cna become a lich.

- - - Updated - - -



No race was, but with time they developt new techines new things, if, they have enough inteligence, and they sure have.



And who taught the first masters? an alien? a god? or, like any other culture, they create their techiniques by themselves after learning things on their own?

they had 10 thousand of years to do those stuff, unless they are mentally capped.


there is no necessity of teachers or outside knoledge

Pandarens created stuff on their own, trolls create stuff on their own, etc etc.

Again, this is lame excuse from the writers



Good, now use this same argument for dracthyr and see how its nonsense to say they can't wield a wepaon because their hands don't apepar to ahve a strong grip.

I honestly don’t know how to explain this other than they are like a lich where their race=class, because blizzard said it is lol. Sure the lich is different because anyone can become a lich, similar to how anyone can technically become an undead. But the similarity is that lichs are a race that essentially has a single class, and so are dracthyr at this point.

What you’re arguing is what you THINK the lore should be and not what it is. I mean I might as well be arguing for why I THINK mechgnomes should be demon hunters. But this isn’t the case. The lore at this moment is that they were created by Neltharion to be a dragon/mortal hybrid to become effective soldiers. They were locked away for 10,000 years and this is how they fight (I.e. what their class is). Just because you can explain how a different race did it differently doesn’t mean that’s how it should be or how it is.

[Fahrenheit]

Are you listening to yourself?

Tanks and melee being left out in the cold???

We haven't had a single ranged dps spec in 18 years yet you guy are whining about being left out of 1 class, I mean seriously tank/melee players need to get over it.

Not many people are complaining about being left out of the class. It’s being left out of an entire race, that hasn’t happened that I recall since classic gnomes. Every race has had enough options so that they could do every role for at least, what, a decade? That’s the beef people have here.

[Forgottenone]

I think it's very lazy that the new (reskin) race is restricted to one class and is not able to show your armor/xmog. This is supposed to be an expansion defining feature.

10 years ago we got a brand new race that could play lots of other classes and a brand new class that lots of other races could play.

I feel like we're still regressing here.

I'm very fine with it Evokers ONLY be Dracthyr and Dracthyr ONLY being Evokers for this expansion. Going forward Dracthyr should be able to be classes such as warriors, mages, and some other classes. It would make sense that for Dracthyr they've only known the Evoker life, but once the Alliance and Horde arrive then they begin branching out. I don't think it is lazy to go with this expansion, however again in the future I can see it being lazy writing.

I do not think that any other race should be an Evoker though as it seems to be tied to things only a Dracthyr can do.

[Syegfryed]

I honestly don’t know how to explain this other than they are like a lich where their race=class, because blizzard said it is lol. Sure the lich is different because anyone can become a lich, similar to how anyone can technically become an undead. But the similarity is that lichs are a race that essentially has a single class, and so are dracthyr at this point.

And you think a lich can't take a sword and be a warrior character?

We even have an example...

What you’re arguing is what you THINK the lore should be and not what it is

Yeah, the lore is bad and make no sense, it have no reason to be restrictive like this.

I mean I might as well be arguing for why I THINK mechgnomes should be demon hunters.

thats a rly bad comparison and a rly weak strawman.

But this isn’t the case. The lore at this moment is that they were created by Neltharion to be a dragon/mortal hybrid to become effective soldiers. They were locked away for 10,000 years and this is how they fight (I.e. what their class is). Just because you can explain how a different race did it differently doesn’t mean that’s how it should be or how it is.

10 thousand of eyars and no one ever though "humm, maybe i will hit things with this piece of metal"

[Dakara]

The good news for you is the developers are apparently sensitive to this concern.Its quite disgusting to be honest and people who bitch about being forced should feel real ashamed of yourselves. Your basically asking to screw everybody who liked having an alternate progression system to raiding and dungeons so you don't feel burdened in a video game. Its very similar to the complaints about lfr rewarding tier or being forced to grind dungeons for frost badges. The developers heard that loud and clear and began to gut rewards so that people wouldn't feel obliged. It was a dumb decision them its equally dumb now. The correct response would be to tell you and your spiritual brothers and sisters to effectively fuck off.

I’m not the type of player who you think I am.
Actually at the moment I’m being roasted in another thread over supporting LFR Tier sets and better Solo queue content.

But let’s rolplay that I am… if I’ve quit, or will quit for those reasons, then there’s no reason for Blizzard to tell me to fuck off is there? That’s problem took care of itself.

However, I’m not that player. My dislike of the borrowed power systems has nothing to do with self induced Mythic raider burnout or feeling “forced” to do it. It was the implementation.

None of the borrowed power systems were alternate progression paths, they were simply part of the same progression path which required detouring to complete and then we hand it back at the end of the expansion the same way gear gets replaced.

Covenant’s Campaigns and WQ’s certainly gave some form of alternate progression to Raiding as they provided you with gear rewards… gear that you needed to complete the increasing Torghast layers for your Legendary if you play Solo. And I totally support those who want to play WOW Solo.

When Torghast was announced I was thrilled. I thought to myself they’ve finally done it, they took Visions (from BFA) and made them better (randomised layouts) allowing for us to either Solo, or group with friends and climb the tower for some rewards outside of Dungeons/Raids. I LOVE Roguelite games… and they killed it (IMO) by making Torghast the mechanism for Legendaries and nothing else.

So I suspect we actually probably agree with a lot of things. Just maybe not borrowed power systems.

[kenn9530]

snip

Why would you want to use inferior skills when the dragon powers are superior, it makes no sense in any way shape or form to use something lesser than you already have. Classes dont really exist so they are using the most powerful form of combat available, they dont need to learn other forms of combat because what they have is superior.

[qwerty123456]

I'm fine with it as long as its a class that only that race could be. I've been trying to get a murloc swarm class/race for decades.

[Rozz]

I'm okay with it, because it's clearly experimental and they're likely going to add things going forward once they figured out what they're even doing. I'm certain we didn't see much, because it's barely even presentable atm.

I understand the struggle. As a dev you want to create a hard line for the consistency of your IP, but as a dev you also have to create an experience with the actual players in mind. What is experimental or lore accurate from their stance can be restrictive and an outdated mentality to the modern player. They see Evoker, we see DRAGON PEOPLE--WHY CAN'T I IMMEDIATELY FULFILL ALL MY EXPECTATIONS FOR A DRAGON CHARACTER????

So they're likely seeing the feedback and are going: ....riiight, they don't see 'Evokers' they see 'Dragons' and want to use them as a base for their own fantasy. So they'll move to be more inclusive w/ time. I do think it was a missed opportunity to make the humanoid form open to any race....I really hate the human female model...

[De Lupe]

It's like people don't even listen to what the new class is...

The Evoker channels the power from their hybrid Draconic heritage. How the fuck are non-Draconic races supposed to draw from their Draconic bloodline when it doesn't exist?

[Dractier]

And you think a lich can't take a sword and be a warrior character?

We even have an example...

What’s funny is this proves my point dude lol. The point is it doesn’t matter if it makes sense in your head or not for how you think the world should work, the point is that isn’t how it works. That’s how lore works in any book/game/movie/show. The writers tell you this is how something works, so that’s what the facts are.

If the bronze dragon flight can alter time, why did they go into the past in order to take the dragon soul from illidan? Why didn’t they just go into the past to make sure it was never created? Why didn’t they go into the past to just kill neltharion instead? Why in Harry Potter didn’t they just use one of those instant kill spells on Voldemort? Why didn’t Frodo just fly around all the bad guys to get where he needed to be? Why do people even use boats in wow at all if mages can just teleport you where you need to go? Why in Armageddon did they train oil drillers to be astronauts when it would have been easier to train astronauts to be drillers?

Before you actually start trying to literally answer these questions think about what I’m asking you. You’re trying to make a fantasy world bend to logic, which you will always lose that fight if you try this.

Yeah, the lore is bad and make no sense, it have no reason to be restrictive like this.

Yeah dude it’s a video game and lore trying to bend to each other’s worlds there are obviously going to be flaws. Again, you’re taking fantasy too literally lol. I mean if we REALLY want to get into the weeds then how come panda warriors who were tied off from everyone else knows all of the exact same combat styles as the rest of the world with no outside help? They just happened to come up with the exact same fighting style?

Wouldn’t it make MORE sense for this civilization to only use the combat style they created? Monks? I mean that makes MORE sense to me, which is why in ancient history different areas of the physical world like China and Mongolia had vastly different martial arts than somewhere like Germanic areas.

If anything the lore they are pushing to us now makes MORE sense than the new never contacted race just happening to create the exact same same fighting style and the exact same moves as the rest of the world.

thats a rly bad comparison and a rly weak strawman.

It’s not a straw man, that’s literally what you’re doing right now. You are trying to explain away the lore to a version YOU want because you don’t like it. Anyone can do that for anything.

10 thousand of eyars and no one ever though "humm, maybe i will hit things with this piece of metal"

It makes more sense than them just luckily coming up with all of the exact same moves everyone else did without ever being in contact with one another. It would make more sense in a fantasy reality that a race of dragons, made to wield dragon magic, taught to fight with magic, to just use their dragon magic.


Tl;dr

You are trying to add reason and logic to a fantasy game with literal dragons and it’s absolutely hilarious

[Tiev]

Totally fine with that restriction if they're able to get that class to do some unique things due to having less to balance.


But also, totally ok because I thought it looked awful so I wouldn't play it anyway.

[Dead Moose Fandango]

"Can't do it, IT'S THE LORE."

"What lore?"

"You know, the lore we just came up with a week ago."

"So can't you just... change the lore? It's not even released yet."

"No can do. IT'S THE LORE."

This. A million times this.

[Sluvs]

I'm fine with evoker being exclusively Dracthyr.

I'm not ok with dracthyr being exclusively evokers.

And as said in this thread already, Evokers should just be DH like style of things. Your visage should be any race you want it. Boom done.