[TV/Books] Game of Thrones ***SPOILER Discussion***

[BloodyAngel12]

I gave up waiting for Winds of Winter, its not going to happen.

[Koriani]

Oh, it's definitely a very recent thing at the end of book 5, after she's fled King's Landing with Baelish and she's hiding in the Vale. She learns from Baelish how to manipulate Sweet Robin, and eventually was eyeing up manipulating Baelish.

A lot of that analysis of Sansa is based on what we THINK she's going to be, as a lot of it hasn't been seen in the books yet, as her storyline (and everyone else's) is stuck at "the beginning of the endgame." Hell, Arya is still a novice at the House of Black and White in the books.

I guess for me - Sansa in the show was never a 'tactical mastermind'; but you're right for the book Sansa we really have no idea which way he's going to develop her. Now - it has been years since I've read any of the books (and I've not reread them at all) - but I don't know that I saw her 'learning' how to manipulate Sweet Robin as all that 'skillfull' and setting her eyes on maniuplating Baelish vs. successfully manipulating him (longer term) are two different things. (And I don't remember if she did, or did not, maniuplate Baelish successfully vs. we don't know yet) That she was learning, yes - that is a good thing. But I am still waiting and hoping she'll get killed off - because I still hate her character, as a "person" and don't want her getting anything she wants. The second she lied and Arya's wolf was killed because of it (ha) - she became irredeemable to me apparently.

Again, not saying I'm being fair as a reader or providing objective character analysis - I see my bias, and I'm ok with it and Sansa. *lol*

And damn right on their stories, even at the end of Book Five, not even starting the 'beginning of the end' plot. If I remember right, Danny hasn't even landed on the mainland yet? (Or just barely landed?) Oyvey so much plot left to go! Still hoping to see a Martin Written Ending one day =D.

[Jastall]

I gave up waiting for Winds of Winter, its not going to happen.

Same for me. Martin's excuse for literally years was that while the book was quite advanced, he wanted to do something else. Well COVID meant the stuff he likes- football games, conventions and such- were shut down for a long time. But still no book. And even if he gets WoW out, that won't finish the series, he needs at least one more ginormous book, and perhaps more besides considering all the time he wasted in books 4 and 5 with his endless travelogues. And he'll most definitely die/lose his best faculties before book 7 is out if it also takes 12+ years for it to release.

I'm already resigned that Martin won't finish the series. Perhaps someone else will, even if he doesn't want them to as of this writing. If not, the show's going to be our only glimpse as to how this story actually ends.

[cubby]

Same for me. Martin's excuse for literally years was that while the book was quite advanced, he wanted to do something else. Well COVID meant the stuff he likes- football games, conventions and such- were shut down for a long time. But still no book. And even if he gets WoW out, that won't finish the series, he needs at least one more ginormous book, and perhaps more besides considering all the time he wasted in books 4 and 5 with his endless travelogues. And he'll most definitely die/lose his best faculties before book 7 is out if it also takes 12+ years for it to release.

I'm already resigned that Martin won't finish the series. Perhaps someone else will, even if he doesn't want them to as of this writing. If not, the show's going to be our only glimpse as to how this story actually ends.

It looks like there might actually be a release date - Nov 23, 2023.

The far-out date makes sense, in a publishing sense, given the enormity of the book, the editing requirements, and then getting it into production. Obviously, we'll see.

[Twdft]

It looks like there might actually be a release date - Nov 23, 2023.

From the article:

"Rumors have recently circulated the internet, suggesting November 2023 as the possible The Winds of Winter release day, supposedly leaked by the author. However, Martin's website does not suggest such a leak, and there is no official resource suggesting it. If the author has commented on a new release day, he must have done so privately."

I stopped waiting for it too.

[MCMLXXXII]

I've came to a point where I'm not concerned if GRRM is still alive when tWoW releases but if I'm still alive by then.

[Berndorf]

I've came to a point where I'm not concerned if GRRM is still alive when tWoW releases but if I'm still alive by then.

I think I'm at the point of not caring anymore altogether. I think he has major writer's block and that keeping all these different story lines jumbled in his head while writing books 1-5 took a toll on him.

[Ihavewaffles]

What teh fudge...

They want to make a jon snow sequel series...

[Varodoc]

What teh fudge...

They want to make a jon snow sequel series...

A sequel about what? The Night King and the White Walkers are gone and spring has returned to the lands Beyond the Wall, plus the wildlings are apparently pacified. How can there be conflict ever again in that part of the world? Unless they retcon the Night King back into existence, of course.

[Elim Garak]

What teh fudge...

They want to make a jon snow sequel series...

The Game of Snow: How I killed my hot aunt and haven't learned a thing

[Ihavewaffles]

A sequel about what? The Night King and the White Walkers are gone and spring has returned to the lands Beyond the Wall, plus the wildlings are apparently pacified. How can there be conflict ever again in that part of the world? Unless they retcon the Night King back into existence, of course.

I stopped reading at title of the news, my brain grew numb n could not take in more information...

[Infinity Cubed]

A sequel about what? The Night King and the White Walkers are gone and spring has returned to the lands Beyond the Wall, plus the wildlings are apparently pacified. How can there be conflict ever again in that part of the world? Unless they retcon the Night King back into existence, of course.

I mean, 99.9% (yes, there's slight hyperbole there) of the conflict in the show was just between the people of Westeros.

That said, fuck the entire idea. What HBO allowed those nimrods to do to their show so they could go off and play Star Wars is unforgiveable. And unless Martin is writing the story (and finishes it), there's zero faith it'd be any good on top of that.

[Varodoc]

I mean, 99.9% (yes, there's slight hyperbole there) of the conflict in the show was just between the people of Westeros.

That said, fuck the entire idea. What HBO allowed those nimrods to do to their show so they could go off and play Star Wars is unforgiveable. And unless Martin is writing the story (and finishes it), there's zero faith it'd be any good on top of that.

Actually I don't agree with it being a hyperbole. While the White Walkers were always established as the greatest threat, as we know, they were dealt with in one night and never even reached the south, so we could indeed say that the vast majority of the conflict in the show was between humans.

The Beyond the Wall storyline however is the exception. The White Walkers were always the greatest threat in that region. The wildlings clashed with the Night's Watch because the White Walkers were pushing them south and threatening them with extinction, so they were desperate to get past the Wall. But even though the Night's Watch was at war with the wildlings, already at the end of season 1 they were mounting an expedition to face the White Walkers. Then, when the wildlings and Jon Snow become best friends, the "Beyond the Wall" populations (including the Children of the Forest) unite against the White Walkers.

Except that the White Walkers are allegedly extinct now, so I don't know who could be the main threat that endangers these people in this new show. Unless they pull a:



with the Night King.

I also read some theories that the wildlings clans could go back to being independent and fight each other, but there should be so few wildlings left after all the conflicts with the Night's Watch and, obviously, the Long Night, that I realistically don't know how a "civil war" of sorts between the remaining wildlings could play out. Unless they get the Dothraki treatment, of course.

[druchii5]

Maybe it's a dramedy or sitcom where he and Tormund Giantsbane but their assets together and partner up to run a Wildling pub.

[Orby]

https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-r...series-reports

So a Jon Snow spin off show... WHY?!"?!? Like WHY?!?!

Let the franchise die.

[Infinity Cubed]

To be fair, there's plenty of conflict and major plots to be had.

I mean, the most obvious one is how the Three-Eyed Raven manipulated events and did some seriously evil shit to become the supreme ruler of all of Westeros. Even with Bran in the pilot's seat, he was clearly revealed to be an evil cunt hiding under a guise of "kind wisdom." And, you know, being Snow's brother cousin, there's relevance there. Especially if Snow runs into another ancient race or otherwise uncovers the truth about the Three-Eyed Raven.

There's also all of Essos, the events of what happened to Valyria (which is relevant given Snow's bloodline), Arya sailing off to parts unknown, and so on and so forth.

The story was never focused on the Night King or the White Walkers. They were just a single looming threat. It's like thinking that since the Spartans and company put a kink in the Persians that one time at Thermopylae, the whole world was happy and loving for the rest of eternity and there were no more stories to be told ever.

But again, fuck the series. They managed to take a world wide phenomenon and absolutely demolished it at the end, turning it into a pariah. No forgiveness for that.

[MrLachyG]

A sequel about what? The Night King and the White Walkers are gone and spring has returned to the lands Beyond the Wall, plus the wildlings are apparently pacified. How can there be conflict ever again in that part of the world? Unless they retcon the Night King back into existence, of course.

this is largely my thoughts. there is nothing new to be added, his story was basically done at the end of GoT. all the wildlings are either dead or on the south side of the wall, all the children of the forest are dead, presumably, and even if they aren't why would they attack humans, the same humans who defeated their creation turned enemy the Night King?

- - - Updated - - -

To be fair, there's plenty of conflict and major plots to be had.

I mean, the most obvious one is how the Three-Eyed Raven manipulated events and did some seriously evil shit to become the supreme ruler of all of Westeros. Even with Bran in the pilot's seat, he was clearly revealed to be an evil cunt hiding under a guise of "kind wisdom." And, you know, being Snow's brother, there's relevance there. Especially if Snow runs into another ancient race or otherwise uncovers the truth about the Three-Eyed Raven.

I mean technically Bran is Snow's cousin.

[Elim Garak]

I was happy with thinking that Jon Snow was living peacefully with the Free Folk beyond The Wall… free of duty and politics. Why ruin that?

Maybe they want to show us the orgies they are having up there.

[Infinity Cubed]

There's also the lame suggestion that if you have Targaryean blood, you're destined to turn into a psychopath no matter how you used to be.

[Varodoc]

To be fair, there's plenty of conflict and major plots to be had.

I mean, the most obvious one is how the Three-Eyed Raven manipulated events and did some seriously evil shit to become the supreme ruler of all of Westeros. Even with Bran in the pilot's seat, he was clearly revealed to be an evil cunt hiding under a guise of "kind wisdom." And, you know, being Snow's brother cousin, there's relevance there. Especially if Snow runs into another ancient race or otherwise uncovers the truth about the Three-Eyed Raven.

There's also all of Essos, the events of what happened to Valyria (which is relevant given Snow's bloodline), Arya sailing off to parts unknown, and so on and so forth.

The story was never focused on the Night King or the White Walkers. They were just a single looming threat. It's like thinking that since the Spartans and company put a kink in the Persians that one time at Thermopylae, the whole world was happy and loving for the rest of eternity and there were no more stories to be told ever.

But again, fuck the series. They managed to take a world wide phenomenon and absolutely demolished it at the end, turning it into a pariah. No forgiveness for that.

If Bran turns out to be a villain (from a story perspective, he is clearly framed as a heroic new ruler heralding a new age of peace for Westeros), and Jon has to ride south to depose him, then what was the point of Jon's ending in the first place? Why even strip him of all political duties, send him in exile Beyond the Wall, and have him lead the wildlings, if he's just going to go back to his status pre-season 8 (King of the North who is trying to depose a tyrannical southern ruler)?

As for everything else you mentioned (Arya, Essos, Valyria, etc.), this would also imply, like I said above, that Jon would leave the Beyond the Wall. Which pretty much makes his ending meaningless and pointless. There was no point in Jon Snow going in self-exile Beyond the Wall with the wildlings.

The story was never focused on the Night King or the White Walkers.

The story Beyond the Wall was never focused on the Night King and the White Walkers, who are literally the reason why winter was coming back and forcing the wildlings to march south out of desperation?