Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[PhaelixWW]

A small percentage of inspections occur each year nowhere near what is needed to monitor the gun market in the US. It would be something else if guns were electronically traced but they are not.

Those two things literally have nothing to do with each other. You really just don't have a clue, do you?

I'm dealing with a pigeon on the chessboard here...

[Draco-Onis]

I'm dealing with a pigeon on the chessboard here...

Then don't talk to pigeons your highness, you seem rather incapable of talking to anyone who disagrees with you respectfully.

[Endus]

I don’t disagree, Endus… but this has been happening in the US for decades and nothing ever gets done. Ever. Politicians are perfectly content with innocent children being slaughtered so they can keep their guns and not address the real issues.

Because Americans, and that goes for both political parties and their bases, have been consistently indoctrinated with the idea that gun violence is a fundamental component of American life and that you can't even discuss the issue or the relevant laws without becoming deeply unAmerican.

Which is, obviously, nonsense. The USA is a failing state, and this is one of the fail factors, right here.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I don't think they will try to defund schools more I think they will try to make them hire armed guards and or have teachers carry guns without increasing their budgets to compensate for the increased costs.

They don't care if all your options are horrible as long as you got options.

That's basically the conservative answer to school shootings, just put guns in schools. Give teachers guns. Give staff guns. Hire security guards and make sure they have 3 guns each.

As if it wasn't obvious enough that conservatives worship the NRA like the next coming of Jesus, and the NRA is basically the publicity arm of the gun industry.

[Fugus]

Sorry to jump in on this late, I heard about it earlier but haven't been able to look too much into it. Any details on it other than the kill count? Heard it was 1 teacher and 14 kids, but no word on the shooter or the reasoning.

[PhaelixWW]

Sorry to jump in on this late, I heard about it earlier but haven't been able to look too much into it. Any details on it other than the kill count? Heard it was 1 teacher and 14 kids, but no word on the shooter or the reasoning.

19 kids, 2 adults, and the gunman. The gunman's grandmother is in critical condition.

18-year-old local shooter, reason unclear.

[Edge-]

I don’t think anything will be done, so we can either keep going in circles with legislations that go nowhere, or we find something that both parties can agree on — like schools that are built and treated like other government buildings, where armed grounds are stationed inside and out. If politicians and court rooms get this kind of protection, so should our kids.

And if Republicans have a problem with that, maybe we should take away their gates, security systems and armed guards… see how safe they feel while going to work.

I will not agree on a massive public expendeture on a non-solution for a problem with an actual solution. This is basically continuing, intention or not, the, "America is the most powerful third world nation on the planet." type stuff. because you don't see armed fucking guards at places like schools in developed nations, and even the existence of the "resources offices" in the US is fairly unique.

This is peak, "We've lost the monopoly on the use of force without the need for a massive presence of armed federal officials blanketing the country." That's absolutely "failed state" shit.

Especially considering the fairly well documented evidence that more people with guns is not the solution to gun violence.

[Fugus]

19 kids, 2 adults, and the gunman. The gunman's grandmother is in critical condition.

18-year-old local shooter, reason unclear.

Ah, thanks for letting me know, really messed up. Hope they get the information behind this. Not like they will do anything to address it, but good to at least know why.

[jonnysensible]

what do we reckon then incel?

[Dorothyjean]

I am not making light of the shooting because it's horrible and I would not wish this on anyone... however... fearmongering is overpowering logic.

Allow me to explain in the simplest of terms...

There have been 202 mass shootings in the States this year with 221 Deaths as a result from them.

On average from year to year anywhere from 10,000 to 12,000 people die from drunk drivers every year.
In 2021, well over 78,000 people died from prescribed medication drug overdoses and we are set to be over 100,000 this year.

That being said it's still wrong and it sucks but it's fearmongering and emotion overpowering logic. Logically we should be working on prohibition and vastly overhauling prescription drugs and the doctors who prescribe them... but here I am seeing a thread of people blaming this and that while ignoring the elephant in the room.

[Kathranis]

I am not making light of the shooting because it's horrible and I would not wish this on anyone... however... fearmongering is overpowering logic.

Allow me to explain in the simplest of terms...

There have been 202 mass shootings in the States this year with 221 Deaths as a result from them.

On average from year to year anywhere from 10,000 to 12,000 people die from drunk drivers every year.
In 2021, well over 78,000 people died from prescribed medication drug overdoses and we are set to be over 100,000 this year.

That being said it's still wrong and it sucks but it's fearmongering and emotion overpowering logic. Logically we should be working on prohibition and vastly overhauling prescription drugs and the doctors who prescribe them... but here I am seeing a thread of people blaming this and that while ignoring the elephant in the room.

Yeah let's just ignore preventable deaths because there are other causes of death. Why fix one problem when there are many other problems?

Fucking stupid take. This isn't a zero-sum game.

[Dorothyjean]

Yeah let's just ignore preventable deaths because there are other causes of death. Why fix one problem when there are many other problems?

Fucking stupid take.

Are you saying drunk driving isn't preventable?

So your take is to ignore the other problems and just focus on this problem even though statistically it's incredibly small but it makes you have "feelings" more than the other problems?

Is that your take away from this? I have no feelings about the 2nd Amendment and could care less if we had it or not but this still boils down to humanity is capable of violence but Americans like to ignore some violence and look only at specific violence.

Allow me to ask you if you took away every gun on the planet, would it stop murder, violence and senseless killing? Yes or No?

[Kathranis]

Allow me to ask you if you took away every gun on the planet, would it stop murder, violence and senseless killing? Yes or No?

So you think it's only good enough to completely stop murder, violence, and senseless killing, and anything less than completely stopping it isn't worth doing?

[Dorothyjean]

So you think it's only good enough to completely stop murder, violence, and senseless killing, and anything less than completely stopping it isn't worth doing?

You're not getting off this easy...

Are you saying drunk driving isn't preventable?

[Endus]

Are you saying drunk driving isn't preventable?

100% preventable? No.

So your take is to ignore the other problems and just focus on this problem even though statistically it's incredibly small but it makes you have "feelings" more than the other problems?

The idea that you have to pick one problem and only one problem to address is an intentionally dishonest framing and demonstrates you're not posting in good faith.

Is that your take away from this? I have no feelings about the 2nd Amendment and could care less if we had it or not but this still boils down to humanity is capable of violence but Americans like to ignore some violence and look only at specific violence.

Intentional mass murder is a far stretch from accidents due to unlawful negligence, which is what drunk driving boils down to.

Allow me to ask you if you took away every gun on the planet, would it stop murder, violence and senseless killing? Yes or No?

Again, an intentionally dishonest framing.

Law enforcement isn't about stopping 100% of crime before it happens.

Vastly reducing gun ownership would significantly reduce murders and such. Firearms are a force multiplier that make attacks far more deadly than they otherwise would be, with a club or knife or the like. Easy access to firearms makes such attacks far easier for people to execute.

It's like trying to argue that you should just let everyone buy grenades at your local dollar store because it doesn't matter that a lot of road-ragers will chuck a 'nade at people who annoy them; they'll do something bad so there's no since banning their sale, right? Obviously, that's ridiculous, because your base premises are ridiculous.

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You're not getting off this easy...

Are you saying drunk driving isn't preventable?

Repeating bullshit misleading questions and demanding answers doesn't make them less dishonest.

[draynay]

I am not making light of the shooting because it's horrible and I would not wish this on anyone... however... fearmongering is overpowering logic.

Allow me to explain in the simplest of terms...

There have been 202 mass shootings in the States this year with 221 Deaths as a result from them.

On average from year to year anywhere from 10,000 to 12,000 people die from drunk drivers every year.
In 2021, well over 78,000 people died from prescribed medication drug overdoses and we are set to be over 100,000 this year.

That being said it's still wrong and it sucks but it's fearmongering and emotion overpowering logic. Logically we should be working on prohibition and vastly overhauling prescription drugs and the doctors who prescribe them... but here I am seeing a thread of people blaming this and that while ignoring the elephant in the room.

I recommend not shooting kids nor driving drunk. You can avoid both if you try hard enough.

[Dorothyjean]

100% preventable? No.



The idea that you have to pick one problem and only one problem to address is an intentionally dishonest framing and demonstrates you're not posting in good faith.



Intentional mass murder is a far stretch from accidents due to unlawful negligence, which is what drunk driving boils down to.



Again, an intentionally dishonest framing.

Law enforcement isn't about stopping 100% of crime before it happens.

Vastly reducing gun ownership would significantly reduce murders and such. Firearms are a force multiplier that make attacks far more deadly than they otherwise would be, with a club or knife or the like. Easy access to firearms makes such attacks far easier for people to execute.

It's like trying to argue that you should just let everyone buy grenades at your local dollar store because it doesn't matter that a lot of road-ragers will chuck a 'nade at people who annoy them; they'll do something bad so there's no since banning their sale, right? Obviously, that's ridiculous, because your base premises are ridiculous.

- - - Updated - - -



Repeating bullshit misleading questions and demanding answers doesn't make them less dishonest.

You're calling me out for being dishonest but have no problems saying drunk driving is not preventable...

I am not saying you have to only pick one problem but I am saying that if you look at how we look at our combined problems this problem specifically is getting the most spotlights on it while the elephant in the room is being largely ignored. They are all happening at the same time so where is the emphasis on drunk driving and drug overdose outside of the odd documentary put up on HBO? You are focusing on "this specific problem" and calling me dishonest for mentioning other, much larger problems and you seem to be ok with that which seems to be the norm for people in this country.

"Intentional mass murder is a far stretch from accidents due to unlawful negligence, which is what drunk driving boils down to."

You have got to be kidding me... drunk driving is a choice, it's not an accident. I still can't believe you are calling me dishonest over this... and have no problems being massively dishonest over drunk driving. You have got to be kidding me.


As for the last part you are being incredibly dishonest about guns and the problems revolving around them to prove that I am being dishonest. Reducing gun ownership would significantly reduce numbers... that are already small to begin with. Let's say the United States passed gun laws on par with Canada how much would this reduce gun violence amongst criminals realistically in the States? I'm not talking about ownership... we're both talking about realistic criminal violence where they will not care about any law changes. I think we would agree that the numbers would reduce slightly but guns would still be a large problem in the States if not redirecting into arms trafficking and the violence unfolding from it no? Is that being honest enough for you or am I just focusing on one problem again?

I am not repeating bulllshit misleading questions... it's a simple question about drunk driving which you seem to think I am being dishonest but you think it's 'accidental' even though you have to drink to get drunk and then drive; two things that have to be chosen to do from beginning to end. But I'm the dishonest one when I'm talking to people who think that is accidental...

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I recommend not shooting kids nor driving drunk. You can avoid both if you try hard enough.

Another misdirect away from logic while you all continue to ignore much larger problems in the country to focus on smaller problems. But that's ok, I'm being told I'm dishonest from people who think drunk driving is accidental.

[Kathranis]

Another misdirect away from logic while you all continue to ignore much larger problems in the country to focus on smaller problems. But that's ok, I'm being told I'm dishonest from people who think drunk driving is accidental.

Do you have object permanence, or are you a literal baby?

It's possible to do more than one thing. We can solve more than one problem. We can respond to a mass shooting in which about 20 children were murdered and say, "Hey, this is a problem we should fix, maybe we should pass some new legislation," and then look at overprescription of opioids and say, "Hey, this is also a problem, let's pass some legislation to fix that too."

If a sinkhole opens up under your house, are you going to go, "well, it's just one person's house, there are other more important infrastructure issues that need to be addressed, I'm just going to live in a gaping chasm from now on," or what?

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

what do we reckon then incel?

Not inconceivable...but targetting 2nd graders makes me think that's not the whole story.

[Endus]

You're calling me out for being dishonest but have no problems saying drunk driving is not preventable...

It isn't.

How on Earth are you going to prevent literally everyone from ever having a few drinks and then getting behind the wheel of a car, particularly given that alcohol lowers the inhibitions that would normally convince people not to do such a thing? Even if you ban alcohol 100%, you'll fail, because people can make that shit in their basement.

This is obvious to anyone who isn't trying to distort the discussion.

I am not saying you have to only pick one problem

You literally said that.

but I am saying that if you look at how we look at our combined problems this problem specifically is getting the most spotlights on it while the elephant in the room is being largely ignored.

Drunk driving is in no way "ignored". You're just intentionally lying about basic facts, at this point.

They are all happening at the same time so where is the emphasis on drunk driving and drug overdose outside of the odd documentary put up on HBO?

The laws against drunk driving.
That bartenders have legal obligations to not let customers drive drunk.
That police will pull you over if they suspect you've been drinking, and can conduct on-the-spot sobriety testing.

And so on.

You're being intentionally dishonest if you're pretending drunk driving isn't already restricted and monitored. Does it solve the issue? No. That isn't possible. Bringing us right back to the start.

You are focusing on "this specific problem" and calling me dishonest for mentioning other, much larger problems and you seem to be ok with that which seems to be the norm for people in this country.

Yes. What you're engaging in is "whataboutism". It's an intentionally dishonest tactic used to derail conversations.

"Intentional mass murder is a far stretch from accidents due to unlawful negligence, which is what drunk driving boils down to."

You have got to be kidding me... drunk driving is a choice, it's not an accident.

If you got behind the wheel of a car intending to kill someone, that'd be prosecuted as murder, not drunk driving or manslaughter.

Drunk driving makes you dangerous behind the wheel due to negligence and poor reaction times, but that doesn't mean you're intending to kill anyone.

I still can't believe you are calling me dishonest over this... and have no problems being massively dishonest over drunk driving. You have got to be kidding me.

I'm not being "dishonest" at all. There's a reason most jurisdictions have a charge like "impaired driving causing death" that they use, rather than "murder", in cases where a drunk driver kills someone.

Because it's not an intentional killing. By definition. Basic facts.

As for the last part you are being incredibly dishonest about guns and the problems revolving around them to prove that I am being dishonest. Reducing gun ownership would significantly reduce numbers... that are already small to begin with. Let's say the United States passed gun laws on par with Canada how much would this reduce gun violence amongst criminals realistically in the States? I'm not talking about ownership... we're both talking about realistic criminal violence where they will not care about any law changes. I think we would agree that the numbers would reduce slightly but guns would still be a large problem in the States if not redirecting into arms trafficking and the violence unfolding from it no? Is that being honest enough for you or am I just focusing on one problem again?

Gun legislation isn't enough. 2nd Amendment needs abolishing, the entire gun culture in the USA needs to be eliminated, white supremacy needs a lot of pruning back. But gun legislation is a solid first step.

The USA has overwhelmingly high rates of gun violence for a supposed first-world developed nation. That's due to failures of the American system. There isn't some unique set of circumstances that naturally lead to that outcome; it's American culture's endorsement and encouragement of gun violence itself that's the cause.

Pretending there's a "magic bullet" that solves a problem all by itself (unfortunate metaphor) is just willful ignorance.