Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[Breccia]

It seems Hammerfest is not alone in wanting stricter gun control.

Gov. Greg Abbott of Texas said that the gunman was reportedly a high school dropout with no known history of mental health problems or criminal history, and that in the days and weeks before the shooting — in which he purchased the rifle and ammunition used in the massacre — that “there was no meaningful forewarning of this crime.”

In other words, there were no reason to deny a barely adult without a high-school education a weapon designed to kill as many people as possible, as quickly as possible, in a wartime environment. That's why they keep getting used in mass shootings -- that's what they were designed for.

"Hey! Stop saying the AR-15 is a weapon designed for war! The AR-15 is just the ArmaLite model 15, replacing the AR-10."

I see. And the AR-10 was?

"Well it was a NATO battle rifle, designed to replace the M-1 Garrand for the US Army in 1956. Oh, shit."

Yeah. In any event, Gov. Abbott specifically said that the current laws do not prevent someone with no criminal record and no history of mental illness from just buying one of these weapons deliberately designed for use on the battlefield, which they can then use to immediately drive to the nearest school and shoot a bunch of teachers, police officers, and terrified schoolchildren.

I mean, I guess you could infer Gov. Abbott is instead saying that routine deaths of scores of children, even children with armed and trained police at that very building, is the price we must pay for having such weapons constantly and publicly available. But that makes him sound like someone willing to let children die in exchange for what he says is a basic human right, and considering his stance on abortion, we know that to be false. Also it would make him a pretty terrible human being.I'm more ready to say he really is just in favor of stronger gun control laws, rather than assert he is willing and able to let dozens of public servants and/or terrified schoolchildren be shot and killed, just so people with no need for a weapon of war because they aren't soldiers or law enforcement can still use something designed for the US Army and NATO, except for maybe a fully automatic switch. Unless they mod that out.

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Also, it doesn’t matter if the on-site protection tried to stop him

I kinda think it does. Oh I see your point, don't get me wrong. And it won't change things retroactively. Those teachers and schoolchildren are still dead.

But:

1) All evidence seems to indicate the gunman shot the school district police, violently forcing entry into the school. If, and I do not believe this is the case but apparently gun control advocate Hammerfest thinks it is, the on-site police willingly, intentionally allowed a violent gun-carrying person to enter the school they were specifically tasked with protecting, then there's going to be a large stack of firings, lawsuits, and criminal charges placed. I'm fairly sure "we let the violent gunman enter the school and did nothing on purpose" counts as aiding and abetting.

By contrast, if these police laid their lives on the line trying to stop an armed violent offender from murdering schoolchildren, the fact that they were ultimately unsuccessful doesn't change the fact that they tried, and could have died while doing so.

That, at least, is a big difference to me.

2) The aforementioned quote, "the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun" is, as you said, already looking past shaky and into Mandalorian vibro-knife territory. At best, again in the case the police willingly, intentionally allowed the gunman to enter their school on purpose, the line adds "...and the dedication to use it". Which...somehow police wouldn't have in this case, but again, I don't think that's where the evidence points. By contrast, if the police on scene were shot and injured to the point of being unable to fight back, then the talking point would have to mutate into something about the good guy having better guns and armor, in some magical way that other people couldn't themselves get better guns and armor. Which...actually sounds like gun control. Also, what guns would we be giving police/security guards which are better than the AR-15, a weapon intentionally designed for wartime use to kill as many people as possible as quickly as possible? Are we talking full-on machine guns, rocket launchers, or some kind of sci-fi bullshit? Quite frankly, the AR-15 has proven it's as good as anyone needs, as demonstrated in its routine use in mass murders.

[Deus Mortis]

Man, the "I'm right" crowd is having a field day missing the point of at least my post.

Which was that, as stated, good guys with guns don't stop bad guys with guns. We see this time and time again. I mean I know Deathray's gonna come all in, "Well Actua-Lee" this with how mass shooting eventually end with the gunman being shot, but like, holy shit welcome to the broad side of missing the fuckin point. Damage is already done. 50+ people at a country music festival dead from a gunman none of them could have even seen before they started dropping like flies. Multiple schools with over a dozen+ young children killed in an act that would shock any other developed nation into action after more than once instance, or maybe just one.

The point remains: How many children do people think need to be murdered in their classrooms before we start asking ourselves about actual ways to prevent this? About actual was to bring down our astronomical gun violence levels? About actual ways to protect peoples lives and not be an embarassment of the developed world, where the proposed "solutions" are - bulletproof backpacks, bulletproof blankets, giving underpaid and underfunded public school teachers a weekend of training and then asking them to securely store and handle a gun around children full-time (in addition to all their other duties) and literally put their life on the line to protect the kids (which many gladly do), build schools like Fort Knox with layers of security, put armed (assuming federal) security guards at every school in the nation, and arm children.

We might need our best and brightest to figure this out.

The problem with your last post was the first sentence had misinformation and you rightfully got called out on it. I agree with several other points you have made, but misinformation should always be called out. I think that America will never come up with a solid plan on fixing the gun violence problem. The reason I say never is because there is a 0% chance the 2nd gets overturned, and numerous other things that would help stem the problem would be unconstitutional and there is no way 2/3 will vote to amend the 2nd.

[beanman12345]

*Rage* 'Don't make assumptions'
a few moments later
'ok now let's be honest...' *makes an assumption.*

not even entertaining clownery. Wish this site had real ignore features.

[PhaelixWW]

The AR-15 is just the ArmaLite model 15, replacing the AR-10.

No. /10char

[Edge-]

The problem with your last post was the first sentence had misinformation and you rightfully got called out on it.

I linked to my source, which had the "appears" clearly tagged in it. I was basing my post off of the "appeared" in that, and referenced other school shootings where current/former law enforcement were there and the shooting still occurred and children still died. Which y'all seem to have totally glossed over in your eagerness to do a victory lap about "Actua-Lee"ing on the internet.

I agree with several other points you have made, but misinformation should always be called out.

Calling it misinformation is laughable, frankly. Information is going fast and people are giving hot-takes as they get the latest info, and then can update their opinions as we know more. This is not what misinformation is, my guy.

I think that America will never come up with a solid plan on fixing the gun violence problem. The reason I say never is because there is a 0% chance the 2nd gets overturned, and numerous other things that would help stem the problem would be unconstitutional and there is no way 2/3 will vote to amend the 2nd.

That's fine. Because the answer to the question of "how many kids need to die" at that point, to at least a great many Americans, becomes "all of them." unironically.

[PhaelixWW]

*Rage* 'Don't make assumptions'
a few moments later
'ok now let's be honest...' *makes an assumption.*

Don't make implausible or entirely unfounded assumptions and then pretend that they're fact by using them as the foundation for further tainted arguments.

I didn't think that distinction had to be made, but... here we are.

not even entertaining clownery. Wish this site had real ignore features.

But then would anyone listen to you anymore?

[Blur4stuff]

I have zero faith in republicans ever doing the right thing. I honestly believe this will keep happening and they will never do anything about it that actually helps.

At this point they have so much blood on their hands that the only thing they can do is pretend they've done nothing wrong. If they did anything else it would be an admission that they let thousands of people die needlessly over the years.

[Zan15]

Nothing will stop Edge's cop hate boner. Even in the link provided by Edge the dude states: "2/ There's a bit of ambiguity about just when in the process the two pd cops engaged the shooter. The video above sounds like all three engaged the shooter prior to entry into the school. But I recommend listening to the account itself in the video above."

what hate boner? sure brought up some good points on how it does not appear to be a solution at all. unless of course maybe we have a small army surrounding the school at all times

[Kathranis]

Nothing will stop Edge's cop hate boner. Even in the link provided by Edge the dude states: "2/ There's a bit of ambiguity about just when in the process the two pd cops engaged the shooter. The video above sounds like all three engaged the shooter prior to entry into the school. But I recommend listening to the account itself in the video above."

How is pointing out that three cops weren't able to effectively handle a teenager with an assault rifle a "hate boner?"

[postman1782]

Do you have something... anything... to back up your assertion? I'd be willing to look at whatever you provide. If not then pipe down, junior.

The fucking sheriff said this day 1.

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Phaelix wanting to make sure the stuff is in fact factual is not a defense of the terrorist, like can you use your head for a fucking second. But apparently according to you wanting to make sure the facts are straight and not continuing to make statements that are false is somehow a bad thing. Any chance you're a republican cause you're sure acting like one?

The sheriff said this day 1.

[PhaelixWW]

The fucking sheriff said this day 1.

The sheriff said this day 1.

Newsflash, champ: a lot of incorrect information is given in the early hours.

They also said the shooter was in custody on day 1, too. They said the shooting was outside the school. Then inside. Then both.

And I'm also betting that your memory isn't really as good as you think it is and that it's also likely that you misinterpreted what you heard. Can you find the sheriff statement you mean?

[Trifle]

I think that America will never come up with a solid plan on fixing the gun violence problem. The reason I say never is because there is a 0% chance the 2nd gets overturned, and numerous other things that would help stem the problem would be unconstitutional and there is no way 2/3 will vote to amend the 2nd.

The 2nd doesn't need to get overturned as such... the individual right to own firearms only actually dates back to 2008 (District of Columbia v Heller) thanks to a substantial and extended NRA campaign along with the usual supreme court fuckery. I will agree with you that there's no way the government gets enough votes to change anything, though. Republicans get a substantial portion of their votes from people terrified democrats are going to take their guns, there's no way they'd jeopardise that.

[PhaelixWW]

the individual right to own firearms only actually dates back to 2008 (District of Columbia v Heller)

That's not really accurate. DC v. Heller affirmed the right of the individual to own firearms, it didn't create the right. The idea behind the ruling is that the right was acknowledged by the 2nd Amendment and affirmed by the Supreme Court, but had existed the whole time. This was just the first time the US Supreme Court had decided to rule specifically on this issue.

You can argue that you think they should have made another decision, but that's another matter.

[Kaleredar]

That's not really accurate. DC v. Heller affirmed the right of the individual to own firearms, it didn't create the right. The idea behind the ruling is that the right was acknowledged by the 2nd Amendment and affirmed by the Supreme Court, but had existed the whole time. This was just the first time the US Supreme Court had decided to rule specifically on this issue.

You can argue that you think they should have made another decision, but that's another matter.

As we've seen with Roe v. Wade, the supreme court can just decide to toss out precedent any time they'd like when it suits their political animus to do so.

Perhaps they could interpret the second amendment a lot more strictly in the future, especially that "well-regulated" part. Might actually go towards saving people, instead of the general apathy against guns that has wound up getting people killed.

[Deus Mortis]

Calling it misinformation is laughable, frankly. Information is going fast and people are giving hot-takes as they get the latest info, and then can update their opinions as we know more. This is not what misinformation is, my guy.

It is in fact misinformation.
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/misinformation

false information that is spread, regardless of whether there is intent to mislead:
In the chaotic hours after the earthquake, a lot of misinformation was reported in the news.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dict...misinformation

Definition of misinformation
: incorrect or misleading information

[Slant]

We might need our best and brightest to figure this out.

You might.

The rest of the world had average guys figure this shit out a long, long time ago. It's not that hard.

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I'm beginning to think that conservatives don't actually care enough to even propose a reasonable solution, they just want more people walking around with guns.

The hell you think they're doing in the US? Being responsible and pass laws that benefit society? Lmao... politician is a profession of maximizing bribe money for least political capital invested into supporting dumb laws.

And since the US public has basically written a blank cheque to politicians, that political capital is infinite. If you get away with putting Trump in power, all you need to do is play by the club rules and you're set for life, in a mansion...

[Crispin]

Watching a Danish journalist interviewing a texan who’s wearing a “let’s go Brandon” cap, who’s armed and simply say that it’ll happen again and preventing crazy people from getting weapons shouldnt be done.

This wouldnt have happened with no access to firearms, regardless of whether “people kill people” propaganda they’re swallowing.

It’s a lost cause.

[Levelfive]

'The Police Timeline of the Texas School Shooting Has a Lot of Holes'

"A school resource officer had heard the reports about the crashed vehicle, so he confronted him, according to McCraw. The gunman entered the school anyway. “[The school resource officer] followed him right in immediately,” McCraw said. At that point, “rounds were exchanged.” Then officers from the Uvalde Police Department arrived. There was more shooting, and the officers were wounded (though other officials have said repeatedly that they sustained just minor injuries).

Eventually, those officers “were responsible” for containing the gunman in a classroom, McCraw said. (Spokespersons for the Texas Department of Public Safety had repeatedly told news outlets earlier that the suspect barricaded himself into the classroom and immediately started shooting.)

...

Consistent with what McCraw said, Texas DPS Sgt. Erick Estrada indicated in several media interviews that the gunman encountered law enforcement before he entered the school building. Estrada said a school resource officer assigned to Robb Elementary first tried and failed to stop him. The gunman then encountered two more officers from the Uvalde Police Department.

“They weren’t able to stop him there, so they did ask for assistance,” Estrada told CNN. A tactical unit arrived “and eliminated the threat,” Estrada said. “Unfortunately, before that happened, the shooter did manage to make entry into the school.”"

https://www.vice.com/en/article/pkp7...chool-shooting

Here's LE admitting cops went in and got their own kids while the shooter was behind a locked door murdering kids for ~40 minutes: https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/s...3Qi-RAj0wTeFLg

[s_bushido]

Here's LE admitting cops went in and got their own kids while the shooter was behind a locked door murdering kids for ~40 minutes: https://twitter.com/_Sir_Perfluous/s...3Qi-RAj0wTeFLg

I can understand people wanting to make sure their kids are safe. But this... It's a bad look, to say the least.

[Breccia]

No. /10char

I mean, that's technically what happened, but this isn't a thread about who failed what military test in 1957 and more about how easy it is for an 18-year-old to get a weapon intentionally designed for war and use it to shoot police and murder children.

'The Police Timeline of the Texas School Shooting Has a Lot of Holes'

Someone's editor needs to be fucking fired. That headline reads like a bad pun.