Texas Elementary School Shooting, as many as 22 dead, including Children

[P for Pancetta]

And your problem is the enormous ignorance you prattle. Your life in your smaller country blinds you to what life is like here.

Hahaha this beautiful, do you realize what you say here is one of the cornerstone arguments used by republicans to stop gun-control laws?
However the US isn't unique or special, only in it's ignorance towards change for betterment.

I see clearly that your ignorance and cowardice(shared by many of your countrymen) is the main issue in acting on this problem. And you know it too, because you haven't said anything except for "no u" for as long as I've been part of this discussion. You have no arguments, I damaged your ego and now you're flailing.

I'm very harsh in my judgement, but I think that's fair given what's at stake.

[Flarelaine]

Please drop gun control discussion, technical gun discussion and especially personal back and forth as these only derail the discussion.

[Shadowferal]

Hahaha this beautiful, do you realize what you say here is one of the cornerstone arguments used by republicans to stop gun-control laws? However the US isn't unique or special, only in it's ignorance towards change for betterment. I see clearly that your ignorance and cowardice(shared by many of your countrymen) is the main issue in acting on this problem. And you know it too, because you haven't said anything except for "no u" for as long as I've been part of this discussion. You have no arguments, I damaged your ego and now you're flailing. I'm very harsh in my judgement, but I think that's fair given what's at stake.

Response given here in the gun control thread

[Linkedblade]

No it isn't. If the firearm has an internal magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, or it has a detachable magazine that can hold more than 10 rounds, it is a high-capacity firearm.

Make magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds illegal unless you have a special license.




Self reloading can also be full-auto.



There is literally nothing vague about "high-ammo capacity, self-reloading firearm". There is, however, a lot that is vague about "assault weapon".

You understand that 10 is arbitrary? Changing a magazine takes a marginal few seconds.

"Self reloading" is not jargon used by anyone. That's what automatic means.

High capacity is vague because what exactly is high capacity? You're arbitrarily picking 10. Self reloading is just strange and I've not heard that anywhere before. Reload usually refers to changing or filling a magazine, not putting a cartridge in battery.

[Mihalik]

In the bold, I'm not so sure that's true. I'm sure plenty have been snuggled in. Many times when the total amount of guns in circulation in the US is calculated, it takes all guns ever. So muskets to modern rifles. Most of the older guns are either long destroyed or in private collections. That's to say the number of guns in the black market are stolen or smuggled.

1. You're probably overestimating how much skirting of the law occurs.

An official with the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Explosives (ATF) – the federal agency under the Department of Justice (DOJ) tasked with tracking and recovering trafficked weapons – told Fox News that “guns enter illegal commerce through one of three ways.”

The first is by private transactions in which guns bought at gun shows, flea markets or through private sales are later sold to prohibited persons.

The second, the official underscored, was by straw purchasers – individuals who buy guns from dealers and transfer them to prohibited persons.

The third category is theft from gun dealers and private citizens. Gun traffickers transfer guns from legal commerce to illegal commerce and are “considered to be violent criminals,” the official said.

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/wh...get-their-guns

Guns are not smuggled into the US, they are smuggled out. Also, when did we last have a gangbanger shootout with muskets? WTF are you even on about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggl...co#cite_note-3

Why would anyone smuggle guns into the US when they are readily available in the US and exponentially cheaper than anywhere else?

2. Speak for yourself when you say "we." A national registry is impractical, and it wouldn't do any good.

Take the guy in Uvalde, his background check didn't bring up anything, because he just turned 18. He bought a Texas compliant firearm legally. What could you have put in place to stop the tragedy, and not delay it?

One, that's your personal opinion, two now you are cherry picking. Here's just one of the many statistical proofs that gun violence can be reduced by restricting access to guns for people with prior violent records.

Why would a national registry be impractical?

Joe bought firearm with serial number xwzy, information goes into a federal database. Said database is updated every time a gun is resold. Xwzy showed up at a shoot out 8 states away. Perhaps we should ask Joe, how his gun ended up in that shoot out, or if his gun shows up in a Mexican cartel's armory, maybe we should ask Joe how that come about? DON'T YOU FUCKING THINK?

The strong association between firearms, domestic violence (particularly intimate partner homicide), and additional victimization suggests that prioritization of measures to decrease access to firearms to perpetrators of domestic violence may also reduce the incidence of mass shootings. The majority of mass shootings are associated with domestic violence. The current study by Kivisto and Porter examines whether the use of a firearm in domestic homicide affects the risk that others will also be killed during the same incident. Earlier studies have demonstrated that domestic homicide often extends to additional victims linked to the primary perpetrator or victim, either through a preexisting relationship or through physical proximity to the violence. Based on a national surveillance database, Kivisto and Porter confirm findings from earlier, more limited studies. Firearm use is associated with an increased incidence of multiple homicide victimization, especially in domestic situations. This suggests that additional laws to prevent those who perpetrate domestic violence from purchasing or possessing firearms, and vigorous enforcement of new and existing laws, may decrease the incidence of mass shootings, whether additional victims are inside or outside the home.

The study by Kivisto and Porter, “Firearm use increases risk of multiple victims in domestic homicides,”1 examines whether the use of a firearm in domestic homicide affects the risk that others will also be killed during the same incident. Firearms are the most commonly used weapon in all homicides, including intimate partner homicide. As Kivisto and Porter acknowledge, earlier studies have demonstrated that domestic homicide “frequently extends to additional victims linked to the primary perpetrator or victim, either through a preexisting relationship or simply through physical proximity to the violence” (Ref. 1, p 1). Their current findings, the first based on a national surveillance database, confirm what earlier, more limited studies have suggested: “Firearm use is associated with an increased incidence of multiple homicide victimization, particularly in domestic situations” (Ref. 1, p 8).

Most people think of a mass shooting as an incident with multiple fatalities in which a lone gunman opens fire on random people in a public space. When domestic homicides involving intimate partners and other family members are confined to a residence, they may not be considered or counted as a mass shooting. Nevertheless, between 2009 and 2018, at least 54 percent of mass shootings, defined as shootings in which more than three people are killed in one event, were related to domestic or family violence.2

Prohibiting firearm access for those with a history of domestic violence has proved effective in reducing rates of intimate partner homicide. This suggests that, in the context of domestic violence, identifying additional areas where prohibition might decrease access to firearms and effectively enforcing restrictions that already exist may also decrease mass shootings, both inside and outside the home. That the study by Kivisto and Porter1 is the first to demonstrate the national scope of the intersection between domestic homicide and mass shootings underscores the challenges in gathering basic research data regarding mass shootings as well as domestic violence.

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Please drop gun control discussion, technical gun discussion and especially personal back and forth as these only derail the discussion.

I'm not deleting my post, but I'd rather not get infracted again, but I'd like to ask in your opinion, considering the context of the topic at hand, if we can't discuss gun control...What are we supposed to discuss here?

Should this be a blog for our thoughts and prayers? Or are we only allowed to talk about "mental health". Elucidate for me, please.

[Linkedblade]

https://www.fox10phoenix.com/news/wh...get-their-guns

Guns are not smuggled into the US, they are smuggled out. Also, when did we last have a gangbanger shootout with muskets? WTF are you even on about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smuggl...co#cite_note-3

Why would anyone smuggle guns into the US when they are readily available in the US and exponentially cheaper than anywhere else?



One, that's your personal opinion, two now you are cherry picking. Here's just one of the many statistical proofs that gun violence can be reduced by restricting access to guns for people with prior violent records.



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I'm not deleting my post, but I'd rather not get infracted again, but I'd like to ask in your opinion, considering the context of the topic at hand, if we can't discuss gun control...What are we supposed to discuss here?

Should this be a blog for our thoughts and prayers? Or are we only allowed to talk about "mental health". Elucidate for me, please.

43% of guns used in crimes are black market. That implies stolen or smuggled.

When I was talking about the amount of guns in circulation in the US, it's usually drastically overstated because of total guns that have existed and sold in the US.

It's not cherry picking to talk about Uvalde, that's the topic of the thread.

[Flarelaine]

I'm not deleting my post, but I'd rather not get infracted again, but I'd like to ask in your opinion, considering the context of the topic at hand, if we can't discuss gun control...What are we supposed to discuss here?

The specifics of the Robb Elementary shooting? Police shenanigans are still being found out every day.

Like I said, I understand all of these events lead to valid questions about gun availability but that topic is pretty toxic which is why there is a containment thread for it.

[Mihalik]

43% of guns used in crimes are black market. That implies stolen or smuggled.

Have you read the link or the quote I've given you? Let's try this again.

An official with the Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms Explosives (ATF) – the federal agency under the Department of Justice (DOJ) tasked with tracking and recovering trafficked weapons – told Fox News that “guns enter illegal commerce through one of three ways.”

The first is by private transactions in which guns bought at gun shows, flea markets or through private sales are later sold to prohibited persons.

The second, the official underscored, was by straw purchasers – individuals who buy guns from dealers and transfer them to prohibited persons.

The third category is theft from gun dealers and private citizens. Gun traffickers transfer guns from legal commerce to illegal commerce and are “considered to be violent criminals,” the official said.

Smuggling is a literal non existent problem. Unless you are referring to smuggling across state lines, where again the problem is guns legally bough somewhere like Florida, showing up in New York. Theft is also a very small statistical component. But even if that is your primary concern, a registry would help with that problem.

Because if guns keep getting "stolen" from someone and those guns are traced back to that person when they show up in a crime, we could have a conversation with that person about improper storage.

Chianese said that, with regards to where guns are stolen from, the answer is easy.

“Lazy and incompetent gun owners,” he charged. “It’s literally that simple. Unsecured or improper secured firearms are one of the largest contributors to illegal guns on the street.”

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The specifics of the Robb Elementary shooting? Police shenanigans are still being found out every day.

Like I said, I understand all of these events lead to valid questions about gun availability but that topic is pretty toxic which is why there is a containment thread for it.

Ok. I'll drop the topic then. Perhaps adjust the title of the thread then? "Improper police response to the Uvalde shooting" or something. Anyway. Don't feel like I have anything left to contribute.

[Linkedblade]

[/B]

Have you read the link or the quote I've given you? Let's try this again.



Smuggling is a literal non existent problem. Unless you are referring to smuggling across state lines, where again the problem is guns legally bough somewhere like Florida, showing up in New York. Theft is also a very small statistical component. But even if that is your primary concern, a registry would help with that problem.

Because if guns keep getting "stolen" from someone and those guns are traced back to that person when they show up in a crime, we could have a conversation with that person about improper storage.



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Ok. I'll drop the topic then. Perhaps adjust the title of the thread then? "Improper police response to the Uvalde shooting" or something. Anyway. Don't feel like I have anything left to contribute.

You could talk about details pertinent to the topic. Like how a kid with no money and a job at Wendy's can afford thousands of dollars of firearm equipment, body amor and ammo.

Or refer to a charity to help raise funds. Like here: https://www.gofundme.com/c/act/donat...hooting-relief

Or talk about security measures.

Refer to local first responders hotlines for reporting violent acts or sketchy individuals.

[P for Pancetta]

Response given here in the gun control thread

Yet again the same weak reply devoid of any logic or argument, pure emotion. Like I said YOU the average American needs to act instead of sitting on the internet bitching like a spineless coward.

[ParanoiD84]

Great speech by Matthew McConaughey but i doubt it will do anything.

[Mihalik]

sip

What security measures? Like not selling guns to loons?

Also about your favorite little conspiracy theory.

The Times reported how Daniel Defense also runs a buy-now, pay-later payment plan, which is advertised on the home page of its website.

The financing program allows buyers to spread out the cost of an assault-style rifle, some models of which retail for more than $1,800, over numerous pay periods in "three easy steps."

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...r-2022-5%3famp

Maybe he financed it?

You know, only if you were capable of some basic googling.

Your straight faced dishonesty is glaring and exhausting.

[Shadowferal]

Yet again the same weak reply devoid of any logic or argument, pure emotion. Like I said YOU the average American needs to act instead of sitting on the internet bitching like a spineless coward.

Oh..so you continue to prove the point that you don't know anything. Other than shitting rhetoric like a libertarian cluelessly chiming in that if we all do something everything will be roses and song.

[Linkedblade]

What security measures? Like not selling guns to loons?

Also about your favorite little conspiracy theory.



https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bus...r-2022-5%3famp

Maybe he financed it?

You know, only if you were capable of some basic googling.

Your straight faced dishonesty is glaring and exhausting.

Financed, with no credit history, thousands of dollars. Doubtful.

[Edge-]

So Police Chief guy didn't show up to his first city council meeting?

I swear, Uvalde cops are working overtime to make themselves appear to be the most faschy, incompetent police force up there with the PPB or something.

[omeomorfismo]

I found the description of Maite Rodriguez and her green shoes particularly gut-wrenching.

I know it's morbid, but I wish they would parade medical experts out after each shooting with high-velocity weapons to describe what these weapons do to the human body. Maybe people will listen then.

The teacher that survived the shooting has already had countless surgeries to repair damage from two shots. Get his permission and put pictures of his wounds out into the world. America has shown it can't be moved by deaths(even kids) when we talk about the victims and the family members that are ruined forever. They need to see what it did.

just to know, now the teacher has even to pay for the surgeries? his/her insurance will skyrock up?

[Edge-]

just to know, now the teacher has even to pay for the surgeries? his/her insurance will skyrock up?

It's likely through the district, so it's based on whatever rate the district/union negotiate for. Honestly I don't know if it's even legal to jack up rates following something like a mass shooting.

[Breccia]

just to know, now the teacher has even to pay for the surgeries? his/her insurance will skyrock up?

I haven't looked into this at all, but it's my understanding public-school teachers have government insurance.

Of course I lied. I did look into it. Texas teachers get health insurance.

Now, maybe it's shitty insurance or there's an ugly copay or whatever. But I don't think their insurance will go up. It's possible the taxpayers will have to pay more when the state teacher insurer says "these fuckers are getting shot, they're higher risk, we're raising your prices".

That teacher should be fine in terms of direct costs. Should. This is still the US health care system after all. But I don't see any reason offhand they'd need to pay a bunch more because of this.

[Mihalik]

Financed, with no credit history, thousands of dollars. Doubtful.

Again, stop fucking making me repeat myself for fuck sake.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...ater-financing

While Credova (the financier of Daniel Defense) claims to not have financed this specific purchase, Daniel Defense refuses to comment on whether they have financed the purchase or not (they could have done so by other means, such as credit cards or internal financing mechanisms). The "no comment" bit is essentially just an attempt to deflect legal liability. They are also being sued to release that information.

As Bloomberg notes financing has become widespread in the US gun market, both via direct financing, delayed payment programs and credit cards.

INSTEAD OF CONSTANTLY HINTING TO BULLSHIT CONSPIRACY THEORIES COULD YOU FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE DO SOME GOOGLING?

While the kid was 18, he was gainfully employed, probably had no outstanding financial obligations as he was living with his grandmother. Going out on a massive limb, assuming he spent 4k up front on the guns, that spread out on a 36 month payment plan would have amounted to about 112 to 115 dollar monthly payments, tho those numbers are probably more realistically in 2.5k range with 75ish monthly payments. Something even a snotty 18 year old could have easily gotten considering that once again...HE HAD A JOB.

[Breccia]

Honestly I don't know if it's even legal to jack up rates following something like a mass shooting.

It is. Insurance companies decide prices by, amongst other things, publicly-available risks. "They keep getting shot" would be on that list. It's the same reason it's legal to hike gas prices the very second Russia invades Ukraine when all the oil is already in the country.

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Something even a snotty 18 year old could have easily gotten

Man, there's going to be some ugly-ass public optics when the gun store and/or bank want the remaining balance. "Grandma, I know our client shot you in the face...but we really want the rest of the money he owes us for the gun he used to shoot you in the face."

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So Police Chief guy didn't show up to his first city council meeting?

He was probably told there was an average American there. Or maybe his phone isn't working. I mean, he's used both as excuses already.