lor'themar and thalyssra spoiler

[Rozz]

All those people wouldn't even be alive or back in their homes if Turalyon didn't win the Second War for the Alliance after Lothar died, they owe him everything, and they know it. That's why the House of Nobles and the Army fully support Turalyon.



They had the "issue with the Defias" because a black dragon was sabotaging the kingdom from within, the army was spread thin fighting the Horde on distant battlefields, and the war against the Lich King was very costly and ruined the economy. And even then, the Defias still couldn't defeat one militia group. All the Defias accomplished was killing Varian's wife, after that they were constantly defeated.

As for the Scarlets, I don't know what they have to do with this discussion.

They're allowed to like multiple people at once. Varian was also accomplished, but most of Anduin's character has been how he had all the emotional intelligence and public affection that Varian lacked til...MoP? So of course when they just get another military hero back, they'll notice the Royal Therapist is gone. Hence why the people miss him. He was the one who addressed their fallen, prayed for their dead, and was the healing voice/face they had through most hardship. Turalyon gave victories for them to praise, while Anduin put up shields so their family can come home.

And it has relevance because you were arguing that one can rule without the people's affection as long as they are strong enough GoT style (which is ironic because that nearly lead to their doom..all the time). But that logic is why Onyxia nearly toppled the kingdom with her the first round of drama. Her orchestrations still lead to a very real situation of the leading class versus the people, which lead to a riot that killed the Queen and a terrorist group that was nearing the launch of their invasion twice. It doesn't matter that they failed, it's proof that might alone isn't enough to keep humans in line and that was the very thing that lead to major conflict for Stormwind. The Scarlet is just another example of humans disagreeing with the crown and distancing themselves regardless of how strong the Church of Light/Stormwind's sway was.

Varian even needed to learn how to temper his anger because the nobles were already growing weary/distant with his aggression until Anduin helped through Cata-Mop.

The point is that when it comes to the history of Stormwind, things go bad because the ruling parties present aggressively/draconian. Turalyon would not be able to hold a successful position within the kingdom for long if he wasn't also liked by the people. Thankfully he is, but he's still no Oprah-Anduin.

[Varodoc]

They're allowed to like multiple people at once.

No that is not enough.

Turalyon is also entitled to be more liked by the people than Anduin, because Turalyon liberated Stormwind from the orcs and oversaw its reconstruction, while Anduin failed to accomplish anything of note during his reign. All the Alliance's deeds and victories are thanks to others. If it wasn't for Jaina, who was unaffiliated with Anduin at the time, his first major battle would have ended in a crushing and humiliating defeat for Stormwind forces.

Even Sylvanas can claim to have had more success as a leader than Anduin, since she oversaw the fall of Teldrassil and ensured that the Alliance could not hold Lordaeron.

He was the one who addressed their fallen, prayed for their dead

When did he do any of this? Up until Cataclysm/MoP, he was not even allowed outside the palace because Varian was afraid of losing him. I don't remember him doing any of the sort aside from that little speech he gave after the Legion was defeated, which is the bare minimum.

And if people like Anduin because he is a pious saint, well, Turalyon was literally empowered and made immortal by the Naaru, the literal avatars of the Light who are the basis of the Human Church of the Holy Light.

So, again, Turalyon is entitled to much more popularity and love than Anduin.

one can rule without the people's affection as long as they are strong enough to put them GoT style (which is ironic because that nearly lead to their doom..all the time)

I mean, in GoT Tyrion literally says that it's armies that truly give power to a monarch. None of the monarchs from the show lost because of a popular revolution, they all lost either because they got murdered by someone close to them or because the enemy had a stronger/bigger army. When we actually do see a popular revolution in the Sparrows, they all would have gotten slaughtered by the royal army if the king wasn't manipulated by them.

And it's the same in Warcraft. Remind me the last time a government got overthrown solely and exclusively by "the people"? The only example that comes to my mind is from centuries before WoW, when the Goblin overthrew the Zandalari. And that storyline is a legit meme comic relief storyline with a literal rip-off of coca cola, so not exactly a dignifying example.

. Her orchestrations still lead to a very real situation of the leading class versus the people, which lead to a riot that killed the Queen and a terrorist group that was nearing the launch of their invasion twice. It doesn't matter that they failed, it's proof that might alone isn't enough to keep humans in line and that was the very thing that lead to major conflict for Stormwind. The Scarlet is just another example of humans disagreeing with the crown and distancing themselves regardless of how strong the Church of Light/Stormwind's sway was.

The Defias attacked when Stormwind was already in a cold war state with the Horde and had to deploy their armies abroad. It is acknowledged in both intros that Stormwind cannot deal with internal threats because they have a war to fight with the Horde:

The noble humans of Stormwind are a proud, tenacious race. Though the recent invasion of the demonic Burning Legion decimated their sister kingdom of Lordaeron, the defenders of Stormwind stand vigilant against any who would threaten the sanctity of their lands. Nestled in the foothills of Elwynn Forest, Stormwind City is one of the last bastions of human power in the world. Ruled by the child king, Anduin Wrynn, the people of Stormwind remain steadfast in their commitment to the Grand Alliance. Backed by their stalwart allies, the armies of Stormwind have been called away to fight the savage Horde on distant battlefields. With the armies gone, the defense of Stormwind now falls to its proud citizens. You must defend the kingdom against the foul mongrels that encroach upon it and hunt down the subversive traitors who seek to destroy it from within. Now is the time for heroes. Now humanity's greatest chapter can be told.

Emboldened by the return of their heroic king, Varian Wrynn, the proud humans of Stormwind led the Alliance to victory in its war against the dreaded Lich King. While successful, the campaign in Northrend proved costly and the humans now seek to bolster their strategic holdings through out the world. Under Varian's daring leadership, humanity now braces itself for a renewed conflict with its perennial enemy, the Horde. Yet, as the great Cataclysm rips across the world, familiar threats have once again arisen closer to home. It now falls to you to defend the kingdom and uphold the honor of humanity.

Onyxia was literally manipulating the nobles to not send the few forces left home to protect Westfall, which is why, by the time we go there, the region has been abandoned by the Stormwind army and is threatened by the Defias. It was all Onyxia's doing, and it allowed the Defias to move in and start causing trouble in the region.

And even then, the Defias still couldn't defeat one militia group unaffiliated with the Crown.

In Cataclysm, as the quote above states, Stormwind not only had to deal with the Horde again, but it also had to deal with the Cataclysm shattering their natural defences (which allowed Blackrock orcs to move into Elwynn and Redridge) as well as the economic crises derived from the War against the Lich King. Which means that, at this point, Stormwind had to deal with 1) a world war 2) invasion from orcs in their core territories 3) economic crisis. And the Defias still lost and couldn't defeat the militia group and the few forces that were sent to Westfall.

You claim the Defias were a significant threat to the crown, but without context, this claim is meaningless. The Defias could count on a black dragon, Cataclysm, Horde, Blackrock orcs, economic crisis all weakening the kingdom, and they still failed to conquer anything.

As for the Scarlets, what do they have to do with "the people"? The Scarlets are not "the people", they are a fanatical cult of Light supremacists.

Varian even needed to learn how to temper his anger because the nobles were already growing weary/distant with his aggression until Anduin helped through Cata-Mop.

With the bolded part you agreed with me. Varian wasn't concerned with the people, he was concerned with losing the support of the House of Nobles, which is the bureaucracy of the nation. Thankfully Turalyon has the full support of the House of Nobles.

[Rhlor]

The people probably miss Anduin because the one thing he was good at was being a source of pride for their kingdom(like a cute mascot) and tending to their emotional needs.

And Turalyon is not of their royal lineage. Anduin is the last of the ravaged royal line. Of course they want their royal mascot back. Anduin was always generally liked by the people in lore. It was Varian who had issues of being liked versus just respected.

- - - Updated - - -



If it were true, they wouldn't have had the entire issue with the Defias twice. Or strained relations with the Scarlet.

We don't know what Anduin's economic and social policies were, perhaps the people love him for giving them a very good health system and improving the quality of education.

- - - Updated - - -

Aside from the fact that plenty of people live in monarchies, even after the French Revolution we had the establishment of an empire ruled by an absolute monarch.



All those people wouldn't even be alive or back in their homes if Turalyon didn't win the Second War for the Alliance after Lothar died, they owe him everything, and they know it. That's why the House of Nobles and the Army fully support Turalyon.



They had the "issue with the Defias" because a black dragon was sabotaging the kingdom from within, the army was spread thin fighting the Horde on distant battlefields, and the war against the Lich King was very costly and ruined the economy. And even then, the Defias still couldn't defeat one militia group. All the Defias accomplished was killing Varian's wife, after that they were constantly defeated.

As for the Scarlets, I don't know what they have to do with this discussion.

parliamentary monarchies that are essentially democracies, napoleon was a constitutional monarch not an absolute monarch

[Rozz]

-snip-

Okay, see the issue is that you've decided it makes no sense for any normal citizen to miss Anduin for any reason--or that they should like Turalyon more despite reasons why they can like both or like them for different things. You're literally denying Anduin's speeches and prayers for soldiers/fallen during BFA/Legion and misconstruing the main themes of power and corruption within WoW and GoT to argue something that misses the point. My examples were to show that taking hard/harsh lines lead to division/problems. Temperance. It takes both military and emotional intellect to keep the overall kingdom happy and to stay a stable leader. Turalyon has both to an extent, but emotional intelligence is Anduin's entire nearly mary-sue character. That was his main value when Varian was around because Varian lacked that element for a while. That is why he was beloved because he is in that way nearly perfect.

If this is just like your opinions on Alleria and Lorthemar then I'll just say we'll agree to disagree. You can argue why you think someone is a better leader than Anduin, but I'm not going in a circle about the given reasons why civilians and anyone else would be fond of him--or that in-lore situations which were a huge deal for Stormwind weren't a big deal because of gameplay reasons. Anduin is their emotional prince who is divinely perfect in nearly everything but war and certainly came off like a perfect victim to Sylvanas' villainy during the war. I'm pretty sure it's normal they still care about him, considering the much worse blunders other beloved leaders have survived.

- - - Updated - - -

We don't know what Anduin's economic and social policies were, perhaps the people love him for giving them a very good health system and improving the quality of education.

- - - Updated - - -



parliamentary monarchies that are essentially democracies, napoleon was a constitutional monarch not an absolute monarch

The only thing we know for sure is that he gave good speeches and kept Stormwind in great diplomatic standing within the Alliance, offering supplies and shelter to their allies during/after major conflict (Legion/BfA). Not so much with Tyrande, but she doesn't seem to hate him. They're still Alliance and probably just see his response as weak and overly resistant to a conflict that she felt was necessary. But then again, many people also criticized Tyrande's actions, so that could be an overall grey area that will depend on your personal feelings on how that went.

[Varodoc]

Okay, see the issue is that you've decided it makes no sense for any normal citizen to miss Anduin for any reason--or that they should like Turalyon more despite reasons why they can like both or like them for different things. You're literally denying Anduin's speeches and prayers for soldiers/fallen during BFA/Legion and misconstruing the main themes of power and corruption within WoW and GoT to argue something that misses the point. My examples were to show that taking hard/harsh lines lead to division/problems. Temperance. It takes both military and emotional intellect to keep the overall kingdom happy and to stay a stable leader. Turalyon has both to an extent, but emotional intelligence is Anduin's entire nearly mary-sue character. That was his main value when Varian was around because Varian lacked that element for a while. That is why he was beloved because he is in that way nearly perfect.

If this is just like your opinions on Alleria and Lorthemar then I'll just say we'll agree to disagree. You can argue why you think someone is a better leader than Anduin, but I'm not going in a circle about the given reasons why civilians and anyone else would be fond of him--or that in-lore situations which were a huge deal for Stormwind weren't a big deal because of gameplay reasons. Anduin is their emotional prince who is divinely perfect in nearly everything but war and certainly came off like a perfect victim to Sylvanas' villainy during the war. I'm pretty sure it's normal they still care about him, considering the much worse blunders other beloved leaders have survived.

- - - Updated - - -



The only thing we know for sure is that he gave good speeches and kept Stormwind in great diplomatic standing within the Alliance, offering supplies and shelter to their allies during/after major conflict (Legion/BfA). Not so much with Tyrande, but she doesn't seem to hate him. They're still Alliance and probably just see his response as weak and overly resistant to a conflict that she felt was necessary. But then again, many people also criticized Tyrande's actions, so that could be an overall grey area that will depend on your personal feelings on how that went.

I mean, you keep acting like Anduin is beloved because he's a saint, he's pious, etc. etc. but I ask again, what did he do that is so compassionate? He gave that speech at the end of Legion, where he remembered the fallen... then? Did he do anything else that publicly showed his compassion and nobility (i.e. not some private conversation with his father)? Offering refuge to the Teldrassil refugees is the bare minimum btw, since Teldrassil burned literally because the SI:7 is incompetent and thought the Horde was heading for Silithus.

By the way, Alleria and Turalyon are also very compassionate and kind. In Shadows Rising, Alleria and Turalyon decided to give blankets and food to the Horde refugees in Arathi Highlands. Even though the refugees obviously did not deserve this kindness, since they were uncooperative. But Alleria and Turalyon didn't care, they were so compassionate that they gave all they could spare to these innocent Horde refugees, so it's not like Anduin is some saint that no one can compare to. Last I checked, Anduin never gave food and blankets to any Horde member.

It's funny that you would mention Lor'themar, I wonder if Lor'themar would give food and blankets to the refugees of the other faction, like Alleria did.

[Daronokk]

Infracted for spam.

[Rozz]

I mean, you keep acting like Anduin is beloved because he's a saint, he's pious, etc. etc. but I ask again, what did he do that is so compassionate? He gave that speech at the end of Legion, where he remembered the fallen... then? Did he do anything else that publicly showed his compassion and nobility (i.e. not some private conversation with his father)? Offering refuge to the Teldrassil refugees is the bare minimum btw, since Teldrassil burned literally because the SI:7 is incompetent and thought the Horde was heading for Silithus.

By the way, Alleria and Turalyon are also very compassionate and kind. In Shadows Rising, Alleria and Turalyon decided to give blankets and food to the Horde refugees in Arathi Highlands. Even though the refugees obviously did not deserve this kindness, since they were uncooperative. But Alleria and Turalyon didn't care, they were so compassionate that they gave all they could spare to these innocent Horde refugees, so it's not like Anduin is some saint that no one can compare to. Last I checked, Anduin never gave food and blankets to any Horde member.

It's funny that you would mention Lor'themar, I wonder if Lor'themar would give food and blankets to the refugees of the other faction, like Alleria did.

See this is what I mean. No one is trying to convince you that Anduin is well written or a good character, but when it comes to certain topics or characters you're determined to see things only one way. I'm only offering a suggestion as to why it's possible for civilians to like Anduin, so I'm not going to debate his defining character traits nor will I deny Turalyon's merits because that's arguing just to argue. Turalyon having good traits doesn't negate Anduin's, that's nonsensical when there is no competition between them and no one is vying for power.

[Unholyground]

Based on what Genn says it sounds like he may not be in the Maw now either, he says there's been reports of Anduin here and there. Sounds like Anduin's wandering.

When we see Anduin again I have a feeling he will have mastered his shadow abilities, possibly even death magic.

[Kyphael]

Playable Bloodborne Elves when?

I can't imagine how they'd be aesthetically distinct, but we're still waiting for half Human Elves, and they have existed in lore for years.

[Aresk]

Doesn't time go slower in the shadowlands than outside of it? When we rescue Jaina at the very start of the expansion she said she has been trying to escape for weeks and it didn't take us weeks to go after them within the Shadowlands

Jaina is taken at the beginning of the pre-launch event, which takes two weeks to complete. So it isn't infeasible that she spent weeks attempting to escape while the rest of the world put together their forces, made the trip to Northrend, beat back the Scourge, reclaimed ICC, and opened the portal to the Shadowlands.

- - - Updated - - -

The line surprised me. If I'm not mistaken, there was a quest in Legion where Anduin dressed like a commoner to learn what the masses think of him, and in general the people missed Varian dearly and were uncertain of Anduin. Legion gave us a clear picture: Anduin has yet to earn the trust of his people, who grieve, mourn, and miss Varian.

What has Anduin done since Legion to prove himself a worthy leader? He played no part in the war against the Legion, which was won by heroes such as Alleria, Turalyon, Velen, and Illidan. His attack on Lordaeron would have ended in crushing defeat had Jaina not appeared with the flying ship nuke. He freed Saurfang, one of the main culprits for the War of Thorns.

I genuinely don't understand how the people of Stormwind can miss Anduin, he was a weakling. Turalyon is a much better fit for the throne of Stormwind and, indeed, the nobles and army support him.

In the end, a monarch needs the nobles and armies much more than the rabble. Wars are won by armies, not by peasants. And the King of Stormwind always needed the support of the House of Nobles, which is why Onyxia moved quickly to manipulate the House of Nobles and turn them against Varian.

So I'm sure Turalyon will do just fine as the de-facto King of Stormwind, I'm just surprised that the people apparently miss Anduin...

In Legion, there's a quest where Anduin dressed like a commoner and learned what the forces on the Broken Shore thought. In Shadow's Rising, he dresses like a commoner again and goes to a tavern to get a feel for what the common person thinks. And while Anduin may be seen as weak from a militaristic background (see Battle for Lordaeron), he's also characterized as having a strong heart. While neither faction leader contributed in Legion (Sylvanas actively works against the goal of reclaiming the pillars by leaving the champion sent there to rot in Helheim), Anduin does have the reconstruction/securing of Stromgarde to his name as well as success in ousting Sylvanas from the Horde. While he did free Saurfang, the public doesn't know that fact, so they wouldn't hold that against him. While the Battle for Dazar'alor didn't amount to much in terms of Alliance victory, killing the leader of a perceived enemy raises people's morale. And he brought Kul Tiras back into the Alliance. He's fairly comparable to Varian, who secured Gilneas' return to the Alliance (the night elves technically did that, but I'm sure Varian got the credit), ousted Garrosh, and stopped the Iron Horde (even if Varian only shows up to promote the Alliance commander). And that was from one expansion, not three.

The Horde and the Alliance are at peace. But the Horde and the Sentinels are still fighting.

I think the most official thing we're going to get is that the Alliance betrayed the Kaldorei and that they are no longer part of the Alliance.

The book that mentions the conflict takes place before the Scourge invasion. We do not know the state of affairs after Shadowlands, unless there was another lore reveal that I missed.

[Varodoc]

In Legion, there's a quest where Anduin dressed like a commoner and learned what the forces on the Broken Shore thought. In Shadow's Rising, he dresses like a commoner again and goes to a tavern to get a feel for what the common person thinks. And while Anduin may be seen as weak from a militaristic background (see Battle for Lordaeron), he's also characterized as having a strong heart. While neither faction leader contributed in Legion (Sylvanas actively works against the goal of reclaiming the pillars by leaving the champion sent there to rot in Helheim), Anduin does have the reconstruction/securing of Stromgarde to his name as well as success in ousting Sylvanas from the Horde. While he did free Saurfang, the public doesn't know that fact, so they wouldn't hold that against him. While the Battle for Dazar'alor didn't amount to much in terms of Alliance victory, killing the leader of a perceived enemy raises people's morale. And he brought Kul Tiras back into the Alliance. He's fairly comparable to Varian, who secured Gilneas' return to the Alliance (the night elves technically did that, but I'm sure Varian got the credit), ousted Garrosh, and stopped the Iron Horde (even if Varian only shows up to promote the Alliance commander). And that was from one expansion, not three.

You attribute to Anduin several deeds that he did not accomplish.

Anduin does have the reconstruction/securing of Stromgarde to his name

We should give the credit to Danath, Turalyon, and Muradin, they are the ones who led the Alliance forces in the Warfront and Canonically won the battle for the Alliance.

as well as success in ousting Sylvanas from the Horde.

No one ousted Sylvanas, she simply abdicated when she threw a temper tantrum and insulted her comrades in arms. You can't credit Anduin for that. At most you can acknowledge that he somehow knew Saurfang would make Sylvanas salty and desperate, so freeing him could be seen as a strategic move; but even that was a pretty big gamble.

While the Battle for Dazar'alor didn't amount to much in terms of Alliance victory, killing the leader of a perceived enemy raises people's morale.

And he brought Kul Tiras back into the Alliance.

Jaina literally did 90% of the work, with the remainder being done by secondary characters like Magister Umbric, Shandris, Mekkatorque, and Greymane. All Anduin did was show up at the end to deliver a speech. You can't credit Anduin for Kul Tiras rejoining the Alliance, he wasn't even in Kul Tiras at the time lol. The same applies to the Battle of Zuldazar.

You can't even say that Anduin played a more strategic role, because he literally did not play a role at all. If anything, it was Greymane and Wyrmbane who played the role of strategic commanders who spearheaded the war effort, and gave world quests to the player.

For the record, it wasn't even Anduin who came up with the idea of bringing Kul Tiras back into the fold. It was Jaina, from the quest "Tides of War":

Anduin Wrynn says: If the Horde makes allies of the Zandalari, we won't have the power to stop them.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: Then we must make allies of our own.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: My people command the most powerful navy in all of Azeroth.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: If I could bring Kul Tiras back into the Alliance...
Genn Greymane says: Jaina, you're the reason they left the Alliance.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: And dealing with that is the only hope we have of bringing them back.
Anduin Wrynn says: I believe it is... and I believe you can.
Anduin Wrynn says: It will be difficult... and dangerous.
Jaina curtsies as she speaks.
Lady Jaina Proudmoore says: I will return with the fleet... or not at all.
Anduin Wrynn says: Be careful, Jaina. Light be with you.

Meanwhile, on the Horde side, it was Sylvanas herself who noted the potential of rescuing Talanji and allying with the Zandalari.

[Aresk]

You attribute to Anduin several deeds that he did not accomplish.



We should give the credit to Danath, Turalyon, and Muradin, they are the ones who led the Alliance forces in the Warfront and Canonically won the battle for the Alliance.


No one ousted Sylvanas, she simply abdicated when she threw a temper tantrum and insulted her comrades in arms. You can't credit Anduin for that. At most you can acknowledge that he somehow knew Saurfang would make Sylvanas salty and desperate, so freeing him could be seen as a strategic move; but even that was a pretty big gamble.





Jaina literally did 90% of the work, with the remainder being done by secondary characters like Magister Umbric, Shandris, Mekkatorque, and Greymane. All Anduin did was show up at the end to deliver a speech. You can't credit Anduin for Kul Tiras rejoining the Alliance, he wasn't even in Kul Tiras at the time lol. The same applies to the Battle of Zuldazar.

You can't even say that Anduin played a more strategic role, because he literally did not play a role at all. If anything, it was Greymane and Wyrmbane who played the role of strategic commanders who spearheaded the war effort, and gave world quests to the player.

For the record, it wasn't even Anduin who came up with the idea of bringing Kul Tiras back into the fold. It was Jaina, from the quest "Tides of War":




Meanwhile, on the Horde side, it was Sylvanas herself who noted the potential of rescuing Talanji and allying with the Zandalari.

Yes, but it was still done under his leadership. I know that Anduin had very little role in there, but the people still credit the king with the accomplishments done during his reign. It doesn't matter to whom we, as the players with intimate knowledge of the specifics, should give credit. It matters where the people give credit, given that your argument was regarding what the people think of Anduin. Leaders are often credited and blamed for victories and failures that occurred under their reign. When judging how the public feels about Anduin, look at where they were when he took the throne (edge of annihilation under a demon invasion) and where they are now (safe from the Legion, at peace with the Horde, protected from the last Old God, and secure from the resurgence of the Scourge). That's Anduin's legacy, regardless of how much of a role he played in those events. Danath and Jaina and Genn and the rest will be lauded as heroes, but for better or worse, Anduin is the king who empowered it all to happen, even if some (or most) of the feats had very little of his hand in it. Similarly, Terenas is said to be greatly beloved by his people, and his only real feat was helping found the Alliance, with Anduin Lothar, the Sons of Lothar, and similar military heroes doing most of the work in securing the Alliance's victories.

[Varodoc]

Yes, but it was still done under his leadership. I know that Anduin had very little role in there, but the people still credit the king with the accomplishments done during his reign. It doesn't matter to whom we, as the players with intimate knowledge of the specifics, should give credit. It matters where the people give credit, given that your argument was regarding what the people think of Anduin. Leaders are often credited and blamed for victories and failures that occurred under their reign. When judging how the public feels about Anduin, look at where they were when he took the throne (edge of annihilation under a demon invasion) and where they are now (safe from the Legion, at peace with the Horde, protected from the last Old God, and secure from the resurgence of the Scourge). That's Anduin's legacy, regardless of how much of a role he played in those events. Danath and Jaina and Genn and the rest will be lauded as heroes, but for better or worse, Anduin is the king who empowered it all to happen, even if some (or most) of the feats had very little of his hand in it. Similarly, Terenas is said to be greatly beloved by his people, and his only real feat was helping found the Alliance, with Anduin Lothar, the Sons of Lothar, and similar military heroes doing most of the work in securing the Alliance's victories.

I mean, at this point Turalyon has been on the throne for far longer than Anduin. He was Regent for all of Shadowlands, but now we know that there was a timeskip of "several years", which means that Turalyon must have been on the throne for far longer than Anduin (who was King only for 2 expansions). I am sure that the people of Stormwind have gotten used to having Turalyon as their King.

Anduin's reign will be remembered as a time of crisis and conflict, marked by the biggest Legion invasion in history and a bloody world war. Meanwhile, Turalyon's reign, as of now, will mostly be remembered as a time of peace, stability, and calm. Since Dragonflight is a light-hearted, almost filler expansion, we can expect the peace in Stormwind to continue for some time, at least until 11.0.

Turalyon should also be credited for having defended the kingdom during the new Scourge invasion.

You know it's funny, some people on this forum think that Turalyon is some kind of "Light Nazi" and the Alliance version of "Garrosh/Sylvanas"... but so far, he has done a splendid job as Regent. He protected the Kingdom from the Scourge (the only casualty that we know of is some random farmer dude in Lakeshire), and then ushered in several years of peace and stability.

[geco]

The book that mentions the conflict takes place before the Scourge invasion. We do not know the state of affairs after Shadowlands, unless there was another lore reveal that I missed.

But after the signing of the Peace treaty, the Horde and the Alliance enter at the end of BFA.

They do not mention anything to us that tells us that things have improved in any way.

[Biomega]

You know it's funny, some people on this forum think that Turalyon is some kind of "Light Nazi" and the Alliance version of "Garrosh/Sylvanas"...

Not his fault, really.

People are merely fed up with the whole Alliance = goody-goody care bears shtick that seems to be promulgated in recent lore, and thus they're latching on to ANY source for potential grit and conflict no matter who it is. Since Greydaddy has proven that he's an old house dog with only bark and no bite, and Shaw is an incompetent buffoon, there really aren't many choices left. Who else is going to shake things up? Mekkaborg? Tyr-angry-de? Mister Yes-I-also-still-exist-you-may-have-forgotten-that Velen? No way, no how.

After getting potential in the form of Calia snatched away by the Horde's compulsive need for a hot undead girl at the top, what's an old Alliance crowd gonna do?

[Aresk]

I mean, at this point Turalyon has been on the throne for far longer than Anduin. He was Regent for all of Shadowlands, but now we know that there was a timeskip of "several years", which means that Turalyon must have been on the throne for far longer than Anduin (who was King only for 2 expansions). I am sure that the people of Stormwind have gotten used to having Turalyon as their King.

Anduin's reign will be remembered as a time of crisis and conflict, marked by the biggest Legion invasion in history and a bloody world war. Meanwhile, Turalyon's reign, as of now, will mostly be remembered as a time of peace, stability, and calm. Since Dragonflight is a light-hearted, almost filler expansion, we can expect the peace in Stormwind to continue for some time, at least until 11.0.

Turalyon should also be credited for having defended the kingdom during the new Scourge invasion.

You know it's funny, some people on this forum think that Turalyon is some kind of "Light Nazi" and the Alliance version of "Garrosh/Sylvanas"... but so far, he has done a splendid job as Regent. He protected the Kingdom from the Scourge (the only casualty that we know of is some random farmer dude in Lakeshire), and then ushered in several years of peace and stability.

Those are all fair statements, but none of those speak to people's perception of Anduin other than your comment about the Legion invasion, which he inherited (and thus should speak to Varian's preparedness for conflict) and the world war, which he brought to a peaceful conclusion. I'm not debating what people do or don't think of Turalyon, as aside from his perception pre-Legion, I don't really have much of a foundation to speak from regarding the people at large. We as the player have seen almost nothing of his regency since Anduin's kidnapping (given the Shadowlands story largely takes place removed from Azeroth), and there hasn't been many out-of-game lore releases relevant for Turalyon. If Anduin were to return and Turalyon refuse to step down and force people's loyalties to be divided, that might be an interesting game event, but until that happens, I see no evidence that the people don't support Anduin and wouldn't want him to return to the throne.

[tromage2]

It is that they are both elves otherwise we would go into a really wierd place.

Thought Jaina and a blue dragon was kind of a sick idea that blizzard did before.
So i just hope they stay with this and not get into Taurens getting together with Gnomes soon but with the current devs i would not be surprised if that happens soon.

[Rhlor]

It's funny that you would mention Lor'themar, I wonder if Lor'themar would give food and blankets to the refugees of the other faction, like Alleria did.

after torturing helpless refugees using the void

[Synvanas]

after torturing helpless refugees using the void

also actually Lor'themar did help Alliance refugees since the end of TBC / start of WotLK, so way before Blizzard even had an idea of where Alleria actually was and what she was doing anyway. (or if she was still alive at all)

Indeed he tried to help the High Elves of Quel'Lithien lodge with food and protection even if they refused the help because they were too prideful to accept it from the Blood Elves, and then he allowed all High Elves to visit the Sunwell in pilgrimage too....

[Varodoc]

after torturing helpless refugees using the void

One refugee, who was uncooperative and spat on her face.

Besides, the subject in question survived. She might be left a little brain-damaged, but it's nothing an average healer can't fix.

Perhaps it should serve as a reminder that Alleria Windrunner is the Leader of the Ren'dorei (a major playable race of the Alliance) as well as the wife of the (at the time) Lord Commander of All Alliance forces. The refugee spat on the face of literally one of the world's most important leaders. Try to do that irl and you won't receive food and blankets in return.