[SPOILERS] Ysera in Dragonflight

[AlmightyGerkin]

They should just reclaim Eldre'Thalas and restore it to the metropolis it used to be. But since the Druid rebels won the War of the Ancients, they should also include an enclave for the druids to represent the "Post-Vigil" culture based on druids and forest spirits.

Oh, and they should also invite the Ren'dorei so that they can study the Void together. In the old Empire, Eldre'Thalas was the city of magical experimentation and research, after all.

I don't know why people care about Nordrassil at all; it is not a city, it is not a home. It is savage wilderness in the middle of nowhere.

That would be cool to see Eldre'Thalas expanded out and merge with Shandris Stronghold or whatever the alliance place is called.

[Jackstraw]

So, we are witnessing the doings of a writing team finally free of Afrasiabi's influence, are we not.

I guess Arthas was not a sacrifice big enough to feed whatever story awaits.
Then again, it hardly matters. Cheapening Ysera's death and how strong the Legion invasion was, furthering the erosion of death as a concept, continuing in the absurdity of having Elune talk (this one basically a cardinal sin, Elune at this point is either a demiurge or evil, or worse yet plain dumb) and above all the absolute sacking of Tyrande and Malfurion's relationship.
All of these things undermine the foundations this story beat is built upon.

Also, nobody could think in good faith that at this point Tyrande would not go on a mental breakdown. Although after the honestly pathetic choice she had to make after the Night Warrior fiasco, I don't really have faith in seeing her pulling off a decent one or a respectful one, for that matter.

[8bithamster]

You've clearly replied to the wrong person or this might be the most confusing reply I have ever read in the last month.

I didn't.. Sorry but reparations and other bullshit in a game where the people are pixels? Get over it..

[Zephre]

Leave Ysera in the Shadowlands and focus on Merithra's development. I feel this is just creative bankrupcy on Danuser and his friends part if they keep bringing back characters, let her return one day if you must but not today.

[Super Dickmann]

Don't worry, I have no doubt the overall story will be about and driven by the Horde, as has been the case since Cata. I'm sure Blizzard regrets the inconvenience of having to toss bones to half their playerbase that in no way satisfy, when they could be spending time building the next genocidal lunatic for Horde fans to salute.

DF is dire because it's the first time we'll actually have to deal with the post-BFA faction status quo. From the screenshots I've seen, it's obviously Unifaction, down to orcs and humans hugging it out with camps five meters apart, with the prominent characters following long in the Legion tradition of being Alliance or Alliance-themed.

@Mace

The more I think about it, the more the Night Elf scenario equivalent to the Forsaken one should've been the restoration of Hyjal. Unlike the Forsaken, who got one scrap of new aesthetics in one patch (8.1) after their destruction, the Night Elves, as you point out, are swimming in endless amounts of visual assets and associated crap. Instead of this whole nonsense about Ysera and seeds that does nothing but retread already subterranean plot points like planting new trees or resolve grievances nobody has, like how the Night Elves lost a big tree, rather than the people in it, have the seed, if it exists at all, be used to help clear Hyjal.

Focus the story on removing the fire of it, have the seed reconnect to the natural world so ancients return to its glades, tied to the Night Elves and so making them stronger and more relevant, using phasing to get a regrowth like result and fill Hyjal with said assets. You don't need a singular new item to do so. Have a loyalist force there that they evict and kill, have fire elementals there and if you must have a new tree, put a new ardenweald-style tree where Sulfuron Spire used to be, visually showing a complete reclamation of their main WC3 territory. This tiresome scheme where we'll first bring Ysera back, then have Tyrande, after dropping Malf, go around begging dragons to bless the new seed so she can plant it, presumably not even in Kalimdor and without reflecting that Nordrassil already exists and while restoring it was also dumb, honestly, it's a done deal and can be used further.

But the absolute most retarded part of the above scheme is that short of the part about the seed being used to introduce Ardenweald assets, everything I describe has already happened. Per the books and dialogue, The Night Elves exclusively own Nordrassil, Hyjal is their land where the Horde can't enter without being shot, the damage from Rag is presumably removed. But all of this happened off-screen in sidebooks who's readers are a statistical error. Instead, all Night Elf screentime is preoccupied with Tyrande's psychodrama and a 5 year pity party that everyone, regardless of faction must be a part of.

[elendil]

GOOD RIDDANCE to malfurion and I hope he gets lost in the maw and is never found ever again!

On the other hand I would prefer the development of Merithra instead of getting back Ysera (even though I like her a lot).

[Varodoc]

I didn't.. Sorry but reparations and other bullshit in a game where the people are pixels? Get over it..

I reiterate what I said earlier, you got the wrong person. What you said has nothing to do with my post.

- - - Updated - - -

Nordrassil is the first major World Tree though, and their ancient post-Sundering capital for 10,000 years. Besides, isn't Eldre'Thalas deep in Feralas and surrounded by Horde bases and territories, very far from Hyjal and Darkshore and difficult to send supplies to? Remember how long it took for the night elf navy to reach southern Kalimdor in the War of the Thorns, and they were delayed by horrible weather.

Perhaps the elves could cooperate more, but I think their relationship will be mostly ignored in Dragonflight, people are hoping for too much. As for Malfurion, LOTS of people thought he would be killed by Sylvanas before Battle for Azeroth, but he miraculously survived. Perhaps now this is completing the cycle somehow.

The only Horde base I remember in Feralas is a tiny tauren camp, so not exactly fearsome opposition.

Furthermore, that tiny camp pales in comparison to Feathermoon Stronghold along the shore of Feralas, which is a bastion of Alliance strength in the region and can be used as a foothold from which to rebuild Eldre'Thalas.

If the few hundred surviving blood elves could magically rebuild half of Silvermoon while fighting against the Scourge, I don't see why a joint Kaldorei-Ren'dorei partnership can't rebuild Eldre'Thalas in a time of peace.

Nordrassil is a World Tree, not a city. The people can't live there, there are no homes, no shops, no squares, no temples, nothing. It's literal wilderness. Ask yourself why the Night elves had to build a city on top of the world tree they just created. Clearly the tree alone was insufficient to accomodate their population.

Eldre'Thalas was a metropolis, and it is currently the last remaining Kaldorei metropolis on Kalimdor that is not completely ruined. It would be a fitting home for the Night elves.

[Mace]

DF is dire because it's the first time we'll actually have to deal with the post-BFA faction status quo. From the screenshots I've seen, it's obviously Unifaction, down to orcs and humans hugging it out with camps five meters apart, with the prominent characters following long in the Legion tradition of being Alliance or Alliance-themed.

@Mace

The more I think about it, the more the Night Elf scenario equivalent to the Forsaken one should've been the restoration of Hyjal. Unlike the Forsaken, who got one scrap of new aesthetics in one patch (8.1) after their destruction, the Night Elves, as you point out, are swimming in endless amounts of visual assets and associated crap. Instead of this whole nonsense about Ysera and seeds that does nothing but retread already subterranean plot points like planting new trees or resolve grievances nobody has, like how the Night Elves lost a big tree, rather than the people in it, have the seed, if it exists at all, be used to help clear Hyjal.

Focus the story on removing the fire of it, have the seed reconnect to the natural world so ancients return to its glades, tied to the Night Elves and so making them stronger and more relevant, using phasing to get a regrowth like result and fill Hyjal with said assets. You don't need a singular new item to do so. Have a loyalist force there that they evict and kill, have fire elementals there and if you must have a new tree, put a new ardenweald-style tree where Sulfuron Spire used to be, visually showing a complete reclamation of their main WC3 territory. This tiresome scheme where we'll first bring Ysera back, then have Tyrande, after dropping Malf, go around begging dragons to bless the new seed so she can plant it, presumably not even in Kalimdor and without reflecting that Nordrassil already exists and while restoring it was also dumb, honestly, it's a done deal and can be used further.

But the absolute most retarded part of the above scheme is that short of the part about the seed being used to introduce Ardenweald assets, everything I describe has already happened. Per the books and dialogue, The Night Elves exclusively own Nordrassil, Hyjal is their land where the Horde can't enter without being shot, the damage from Rag is presumably removed. But all of this happened off-screen in sidebooks who's readers are a statistical error. Instead, all Night Elf screentime is preoccupied with Tyrande's psychodrama and a 5 year pity party that everyone, regardless of faction must be a part of.

It was weird that tyrande showed up in Ardenweald instead of Malfurion, who is the druid. Elune prior to this had never been connected with nature - save for producing Cenarius who connects to nature via his father 's wild god element, and connects tot eh arcane and the stars by Elune

Elune was always night elf civilziation, culture, arcane - intrsrinsically tied to the Well of eternity, Moonwells and empowered females - the stars and the moon, alwawys, ishe is part of the dark elf element of the night elves.

so the move is very strange to have her involved with the Ardenweald, or rather to have Malfurion absent, because face it, Tyrande had to be there because of the whole Sylvannas /Night warrior thing, but it didn't need to be tied to Ardenweald.


Malfurion could be the one we were with in there, makes more sense huh..


The story was accepstable, but I suspect s hift are tehy making Tyrnade the forest queen too, and so eliminating Malfurion and just narrow focusing the night elves? We haven't heard anything from the demon hutners, the civilians and civilziation lot, the mages and hihgoborne lot, the Moonguard, the Illidari, and not heard anything form Malfurion or the druids. Just aying, is Tyrande been installed as replacemnt for Malfurion - and will they change her lore too?

[Moonrage]

I wonder if they'll give Malfurion the Saurfang treatment before he bites the dust; a whole character arc that takes up the majority of the expansion + 4 CGI cinematics. Probably not because he's not a Horde character.

[Mace]

They should just reclaim Eldre'Thalas and restore it to the metropolis it used to be. But since the Druid rebels won the War of the Ancients, they should also include an enclave for the druids to represent the "Post-Vigil" culture based on druids and forest spirits.

Oh, and they should also invite the Ren'dorei so that they can study the Void together. In the old Empire, Eldre'Thalas was the city of magical experimentation and research, after all.

I don't know why people care about Nordrassil at all; it is not a city, it is not a home. It is savage wilderness in the middle of nowhere.

Tbh, I wouldn't mind any of the places I just called, as long as they did it well. The night elves have an incredible wealth of assets and themes, that are actually quite exceptional.. it seems stupid that the main group won't be able to produce a forest like Arden weald or city like Suramar again - when these things are clearly either built by them or themed directly after them. + they look amazing.

Whether it ends up being in Dragonflight, Feralas, Naz'jatar, Hyjal, Broken Isles or a super revamped Darkshore/Ashenvale

But if I am really honest, I'd like a new location simply because all those other places already have cities and forests with their own unique feel - so I'd favour something like Dragonflight or Naz'jatar - and later we see places like Hyjal restored, Eldre'thalas too restored and Nar'thalas too - so we have a bunch of places around the world for the night elves, just like humans and orcs and undead have. And no, they don't all have to be alliance aligned night elves. [in fact, i wouldn't mind if the night elves left the alliance, and only a bunch of loyal supporters who believe it is necessary to be in it to help it and guide it, chose to remain - fighting for it, while the rest were developed as their own thing like they were very much this massive diverse culture with great history and depth when they were introduced and been built upon in WC3 and WotA trilogy.

what I hate is the shrinking of the vision. They were an extensive, multi versed race when the developers created them back in wc3 - intended to have the best of the dark elf trope (i.e. arcane magic, goddess, power) and the forest elf trope (nature magic, benevolence, grace). They felt as diverse as humans and what orcs were. In wow they felt very Pidgeon holed - at first it was just druidic - with almost nothing of Elune, their civilization or the arcane elements - the Well of eternity, the centre of their story, seemed lost and forgotten. Then it shifted. Legion had great balance because you saw nature love, you saw demon hunters and the fel division, you saw Wardens and huntresses and you saw their civilization, Highborne/Moonguard etc - they felt like areal people.

Now again, I wonder if they are being pidgeon holed again. Elune is what connects both their arcane and nature cores, and the star culture - they are named after, well, still pretty much a mystery as is the order of Elune and what their creed and ethos is.


I would wish all races had this.. it was one thing i really loved about BFA, when they got to delve into the Zandalari, the trolls lookeed far bigger and expansive - i love that.. it makes them feel realistic, yet unique - cos the trolls have their thing/s, but it covers multiple areas, and isn't just pidgeon holed into one thing.

It might be why I have grown tired of the horde and alliance, because htey are used as an excuse to just reduce everyone to human and orc avatars, strip them down to one trick ponies and you never see the races ofr anything else but one niche - only humans and orcs get more -a nd this was what I always felt was a failing and weakness of other fantasy genres like DnD games (such as NWN) and others - where orcs, dark elves, forest elves, gnomes, every race but humans ahd just one thing.


don't mistake me though, I don't think it is wrong for a race to have one main thing, especially if its special or unique, but not every race. I think this better suits smaller races, like allied race/minor races and groups that aren't necessarily major players but can be game changers because of their one thing. This is also a relaity, some ethnic groups/nations are really excelling at one thing, but the great ones have multitude of things they are great at. For me, it felt that Humans, Orcs, Night elves and undead were the great powers. Trolls, Dwarves, Pandas, Blood elves kinda next, then minors are like gnomes, goblins, Draenei. Most allied races are in the minor cateogory, and for some having one thing makes sense - like Mecahgnomes, Void elves, Nightborne, Highmountain - but for others like Zandalari, Vulpera, Mag'har, Kul'tiran and D ark Irons - it doesn't - though an allied race, they could actually be a major force. I like that too.

Are the Developers Not Understanding What we are Drawn to here? And why?
I guess at the heart of it, i don't like them changing the vision rom something that was incredible to something a lot worse - and this is how it feels like for night elves. it's just a shitty thing to do. Especially if you introduced them one way, got and banked on people loving them, then rubbished them later .. it's like you misled and misold something and that is annoying.


You can depower things like the dragons, they're not playable, end the demons, they're not playable either, but the playable races, people invest in, and get attached too, have favourites, . you have many of those too so people can identify with what they feel reflects them the most... whether it is wone thing, several things or an aspect of one, even when you have a group that focuses down on one thing, like the void elves do on the void, if you like that thing about high elves, then you have found your virtual tribe.

Part of the role playing fantasy banks heavily on that, this is why you invest so much in the detail, set up of races, and iconic characters calsses are modelled on. it is to sell the fantasy that you expect players to delve into and pick up when they role play. You wan thtem to love it, enjoy it, and feel good about it.

no one feels good when you continue shit on a favourite and keep nerfing, reducing and diminishing them. it's just not good. Evven if you don't like the night elves, you gotta wonder, will my r ace be next? Why not be known for lifting playable races up rather than shitting on them?

[Combatbutler]

I wonder if they'll give Malfurion the Saurfang treatment before he bites the dust; a whole character arc that takes up the majority of the expansion + 4 CGI cinematics. Probably not because he's not a Horde character.

Would be fun if he also becomes a trinket by the end.

[Maljinwo]

Would be fun if he also becomes a trinket by the end.

The Archdruid's Command

+150 Intelligence
+120 Stamina

On Use: Cast silence on your spouse

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I wonder if they'll give Malfurion the Saurfang treatment before he bites the dust; a whole character arc that takes up the majority of the expansion + 4 CGI cinematics. Probably not because he's not a Horde character.

I wondered how he would pass away. Killing him or having him commit suicide would be quite cheap. I had in mind a movie scene in which Elune opens a doorway for his spirit to depart from his body and travel to the Shadowlands.

[Cheezits]

I'm surprised we haven't had an IRL Night Elf fan freakout yet.

[Xilurm]

Looks like Twitter going crazy over this. Nice.

[Feanoro]

DF is dire because it's the first time we'll actually have to deal with the post-BFA faction status quo. From the screenshots I've seen, it's obviously Unifaction, down to orcs and humans hugging it out with camps five meters apart, with the prominent characters following long in the Legion tradition of being Alliance or Alliance-themed.

Well, when Horde fans howl over any character deeper than "RAWR ORC SMASH DRINK BABY BLOOD", can't really expect them to develop characters or organizations. Further, Unifaction and cross faction play are both driven by Alliance subs tanking as a result of years of bias. Using Alliance themes is a result of both of these factors.

Hyjal is their land where the Horde can't enter without being shot

Funny, that was the case for Ashenvale too.

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All part of Afrasiabi plan to destroy WoW

He has been gone for years now. If this is part of such a plan, why the hell are they still following it?

No, this is completely on Danuser. So was SL, but people keep wanting to believe otherwise in the vain hope that it will get better.

[Aucald]

This thread isn't about the faction conflict, server imbalances real or imagined, or external drama. Let's pivot the discussion back to discussing this specific plot point in the wider narrative of Dragonflight.

[Goat7]

Im sure several people would be interested in an expansion like that

Yes and it happens at the goldshire inn on moon guard server only

[Super Dickmann]

Well, when Horde fans howl over any character deeper than "RAWR ORC SMASH DRINK BABY BLOOD", can't really expect them to develop characters or organizations. Further, Unifaction and cross faction play are both driven by Alliance subs tanking as a result of years of bias. Using Alliance themes is a result of both of these factors.

Bland neutral organisations as the main characters that are Alliance in theme and characterization, but inexplicably multiracial and divorced from it in organisation are as old as Wrath, when the faction balance was considerably less tilted and has carried on for expansions since. Using Alliance themes isn't a result of opposition from Horde groups it's that writing a bland, neutral version of something makes for easier writing and on paper offends no one. This reached its apogee in Legion and with SL and now likely DF has pivoted to the new approach, where there aren't even Alliance knock-off organisations but just near exclusively Alliance-themed characters with one or two Horde there to get participation trophies.

But as these characters need to be universal they also have to be boring, so instead of just having say, an Argent Crusade led by a glorified cypher like Tirion who gets the final kill on Arthas while Jaina, Sylvanas, any Forsaken or blood elf etc. get to ride bitch or not feature at all, you have an entire cast of interchangable cutouts. The SL living Azeroth cast's lines could mostly be freely swapped without incident and have no direction and no narrative to speak of. You thus get the worst of both worlds with Alliance pissed their characters are hollow bores who've nothing to do but retreat plotbeats done better before and ignoring their backstory and Horde characters we're accompanying Jaina/Tyrande on their mystery tour yet again.

[Mace]

True of every tragedy Blizz writes. They never build, only destroy.

Guess.

I've found that really werid too - i mean, it's quite something enchanting tos ee a group rise and improve, but the most powerful is how you swing back up after a terrible knock, the harder the knock the greater and more powerful would the improvements seem