So first world 80 lvl done by exploit/glitch or what?

[Ashana Darkmoon]

The private server and classic andys must be malding so hard that a retail player stole it from them.

Just look up the wowhead twitter/comments and naowh's video, so much salt and drama for something so insignificant it's great.

lol I think that's the correct takeaway.

[Yakut]

Recalling 3 years worth of payments through your bank really isn’t hard, you don’t even have to sue them

I don't know which country you're making that statement from, but in the US, you are required to indicate you tried to resolve the billing issue with a provider. You're also required to provide proof. They will then corellate that with the provider/vendor in question. This is largely for the reason that people have tried to defraud companies before and been just as "bad apple" as some companies out there. My credit card and debit card (wildly different companies) have had this practice for years. But, pro tip, the higher the amount you try to recall, the lower the likelihood they will reverse the charges (see aforementioned fraud reasons).

You wouldn't get away with 3 years. You'd probably, at most, get away with a month - maybe two. Either way, it's not ethical for a lot of different reasons.

That said, you agree to their terms. You also agree in the same terms that nothing on your Blizzard account (Characters, gear, etc) is actually your property - it belongs explicity and implicitly only to Blizzard.

I don't get what is so hard to understand about this. Of literally all of the things Blizzard has been sued for, your character being banned for exploits has never made it to trial. And it won't. It would not pass summary judgement for obvious reasons (that I have already repeated). Google it, you won't find a single example either in the US or the EU.

The one closest parallel was 3 years ago when someone got banned (public game streaming event). US Legislators requested Blizzard reverse the ban, but could not require them to do so by law. Spoiler alert: Blizzard did not reverse the ban nor did they face legal consequences for their decision by any country in the world.

The simple truth is, people agreed to abide by Blizzard's decisions and rules - you have to in order to even play the game the first time and every expansion or major patch in between.

The sound I hear is cognitive dissonance; The refusal to accept the reality because you disagree with it. The earth is still round.

[ghays]

I got world 129124th ... can I brag about that too ?

Yes! And don’t skimp on the details!

[Xath]

they banned athene for it back in the day,when he was milions times more popular than a random echo nobody known only in small niches

I think you are both heavily overestimating Athene's popularity and underestimating Naowh's

Also world first happened 14 years ago so who cares.

[Kilpi]

The problem here is that you're counting both original Wrath and Classic Wrath as Olympic games. In reality, Classic is more like a little league sport. Or, hell, Wrath is MLB baseball, Classic is teeball.

Oi, don't shit on original Wrath like that and compare it to baseball.

[Drudi]

“That said, you agree to their terms”

No. It’s what they want it to look like. But since their terms diminish my rights guaranteed by the law, my “agreement” doesn’t create a binding contract with tos terms entirely. Only where the law is not broken. It’s broken when they claim they can stop providing the service at any moment or delete my account etc etc. So this part of tos is not in effect.

As for US or EU, I didn’t add “under any reasonable legislation” for no reason; this naturally excludes US and most EU countries.

But yeah the earth is s round and there are only 2 genders.

[Balbarei]

World first Level 80 was actually back in 2008

[saintminya]

Even without requiring players to read through and agree to their Terms of Service, they hold the right to deny the service to anyone or shut down the service at anytime with or without any warning or sensible reasoning. The game is theirs, you agree to their terms when you decide to play.

[Yakut]

“That said, you agree to their terms”

No. It’s what they want it to look like. But since their terms diminish my rights guaranteed by the law, my “agreement” doesn’t create a binding contract with tos terms entirely. Only where the law is not broken. It’s broken when they claim they can stop providing the service at any moment or delete my account etc etc. So this part of tos is not in effect.

As for US or EU, I didn’t add “under any reasonable legislation” for no reason; this naturally excludes US and most EU countries.

But yeah the earth is s round and there are only 2 genders.

So you reject reality and substitute it with your own. That's fine. You can do that in your head. But, when your actions violate the TOS you agreed to abide by, do not be terribly surprised when they reject your reality and substitute it with their own with a fresh ban hammer.

[Nephod]

the main guys,not some rando in the team

/facedesk

I can't argue with ppl who do not subscribe to reality :P

[tomten]

You can keep twisting it and ignoring it, but the facts are the facts. You agree to abide by Blizzard's terms every time you login. Whether or not you like those rules is immaterial. You agree to them when you play the game. Every time.

Blizzard can enforce it within their game if they desire - they have demonstrated this an inordinate number of times. Has the EU government or judicial system stepped in and told them to reverse bans? Of course not. Has the US government stepped in and told them to reverse bans? Also, of course not. They're not going to, either. The users agreed to the terms in order to play the game.

You may nitpick as you like, but that changes absolutely nothing of what I said nor the reality you face to that end. Your opinion, or even mine, on what they do, how they do it, or why they do it matters not. You can, of course, vote with your wallet and stop playing the game. But, you cannot change their behavior otherwise.

has anyone tried reversing a ban under eu law or local law? I doubt it, the resources needed for that would be immense and not in correlation to the loss.
They have stepped in for things as pre orders, not being able to get refunds and such, which is also in their TOS and holds ZERO weight in the real world.
Which was and has been my point all along... Its just a bunch of word pooping that doesn't mean anything outside their virtual world, soon as you step in the the real world? Actual laws applies.

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That would be direct fraud by them under any reasonable legislation. With severe consequences up to criminal punishment. And yes, it does not matter that you “agreed” to that tos term - again, under any reasonable legislation.

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“ You agree to abide by Blizzard's terms every time you login”

Only applicable to the extent permitted by applicable law. In any reasonable country consumer right protection acts protect you from any contract terms that might diminish your rights guaranteed by the law. So it basically does not matter what blizzard has in tos; if it contradicts with your law, it does not exist legally.

Why are you quoting me for? You're making my exact point lol, did you even bother to read???

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The simple truth is, people agreed to abide by Blizzard's decisions and rules - you have to in order to even play the game the first time and every expansion or major patch in between..

It goes both ways, blizzard cant enforce their TOS outside their game, you know, in the real world.
Why? Because as I've stated several times, you cannot, i repeat, cannot, contract out of law...
That would be like me signing a contract to kill someone and pretend I won't go to jail just because I had a contract that said I could kill someone....

[Yakut]

It goes both ways, blizzard cant enforce their TOS outside their game, you know, in the real world.
Why? Because as I've stated several times, you cannot, i repeat, cannot, contract out of law...
That would be like me signing a contract to kill someone and pretend I won't go to jail just because I had a contract that said I could kill someone....

Repeating the same phallacy does not make it true, it just makes you persistent. Blizzard isn't trying to impose their TOS in the world, they're doing it within the context of their game. And, as users agree to those terms, they also agree to the enforcement of that agreement. You've thrown all the real world examples out because they don't fit your narrative. Unfortunately, my examples are precedent. Yours are belief based. Tell me, how strong is this faith when it comes to the fact they've literally banned players before with absolutely no consequences to them legally in the real world?

Yes, keep nailing yourself to that cross. I'm sure someone will come along and worship you for it.

[Drudi]

“Blizzard isn't trying to impose their TOS in the world, they're doing it within the context of their game”

It’s not their game damn it. It’s a paid service they provide which is bound by dozens of terms and conditions enforced by applicable law. They can only impose what is left uncovered by the law, if any.

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“And, as users agree to those terms, they also agree to the enforcement of that agreement”

Not under any reasonable legislation that prohibits any contract terms that diminish customer rights. But clearly you lack the capacity to understand that

[saintminya]

The customer doesn't retain any right they agreed to forfeit when accepting the terms of service and playing.

Oh yeah, I'd suggest re-reading the ToS as it explicitly states that you don't own the game, but rather subscribe to a service.

[Azerox]

It's not cheating if you bring Blizzard viewers/attention/money.
Blizzard has no morale.

[saintminya]

Still cheating. You'll just be far more likely to get away with it if Blizzard benefits from you playing.

[Netherblood]

i mean in the grand scale of things,athene was well known even outside the wow comunity,echo is niche even among the wow players,do you realise how tiny the world first is?and even among those,people care about the guild name,or the main guys,not some rando in the team,also really shity comparison with messi omg i cant even....jesus

You do realize WF race gets like 100k viewers+ on twitch when they are getting close to WF. Naowh also has 5 MDI wins, 2 TGP wins and 3 WF raid wins. If you care about competitive side of WoW at all you know who he is. He is also one of the main guys not a rando. He is one of the best if not the best tank to ever play WoW.

[Sentynel]

“ It's their game, it's their rules”

No, it’s actually a commercial service where a customer pays for a quality product. If service is not provided, or quality is lacking, they would face consequences. Recalling 3 years worth of payments through your bank really isn’t hard, you don’t even have to sue them

ROFL.

Gimme some of that crack you're on lol

[Lord Pebbleton]

Wrath and Wrath Classic are not the same game though. Its 2 seperate races. Do olympic atheletes not get gold if someone beat their time the previous olympics?

But you would not announce that, every 4 years, the person that wins the olympic swimming competition is the first in the world to win it, would you?


I haven't played Wrath classic beyond the DK leveling experience, so I am not advocating for/against the premise as a whole, but let's not pretend that getting world first something now is the same as before. World first Ragnaros in 2005 was a memorable moment. World first Ragnaros in 2019 is not, they cleared the place with people that were not even level 60.
There is a difference between competing in new content and re-doing the same thing a decade later and claim to be the "first". I mean, one can do that, but if anything, that means being the first in winning the easy version (working theories + decades of experience + retail boss mechanic training) of something else.

[Drudi]

ROFL.

Gimme some of that crack you're on lol

You might just try moving to a country where customer rights are actually protected by the law.