Is the sub-based monthly model outdated?

[yellowbill]

Greg Street, one of wow's ex developers who left WoW after the MoP expansion (i think) has said the sub based model is outdated for mmo's. It's a barrier for entry for new players because there are some days when you only want to play WoW for few hours but in order to do that, you are forced to pay 15 bucks for a sub. There are times where you are not playing wow for weeks so that's money ends up being wasted.

He's working on the new mmo game for Riot so we have to see how successful that game is but do you agree with his statement?. He plans to mainly make money from cosmetic items from the ingame shop e.g. weapon skins, hero skins, mounts etc while the game stays Free to Play.

[callipygoustp]

$15 a month is outrageous!!!!

[loras]

Greg Street, one of wow's ex developers who left WoW after the MoP expansion (i think) has said the sub based model is outdated for mmo's. It's a barrier for entry for new players because there are some days when you only want to play WoW for few hours but in order to do that, you are forced to pay 15 bucks for a sub. There are times where you are not playing wow for weeks so that's money ends up being wasted.

He's working on the new mmo game for Riot so we have to see how successful that game is but do you agree with his statement?. He plans to mainly make money from cosmetic items from the ingame shop e.g. weapon skins, hero skins, mounts etc while the game stays Free to Play.

Well he's not wrong about the 15 bucks for a few hours of entertainment being a barrier, hell i've plenty of disposable wealth but even for me the sheer hassle makes me think "Nah.". And that stays even while having WoW tokens ready to roll if i would like to use that instead.

That said i don't think f2p is superior because devs need to breathe constantly down the necks of everyone with semi-mandatory stuff to make a buck.

However since WoW already has gold buying (which has thoroughly bled into the rest of the game via outrageous prices for certain vendor items, mounts most notably), an absurdly priced cosmetic / service store and you need to buy new expansions... well by now it really wouldn't make much of a difference anymore; it already has most of the negatives of f2p anyway, might as well go the whole way and draw in a new, more flexible crowd.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

The monthly sub stopped making sense once new content releases for WoW slowed to a drip after MoP.

GW2 doesn't have a $15 monthly subscription fee, and that has saved me hundreds of dollars. Yes, it has a cash shop where you buy solutions to problems engineered by the devs, but you're looking at dropping about $200 to get all of the content and all of the necessary utilities unlocked forever. Whereas with WoW or FF14 you have to pay $2,000+ to play for ten years. Playing a cash shop game like GW2 is 10x cheaper than playing a sub based MMO.

[Naoto]

Have you seen how bat shit crazy people go when Blizzard add a cosmetic to the store? imagine if wow goes f2p and all the cool shit costs 10 bucks a pop. Either way, it's 15 a month which is not much different to any form of monthly subscription so if the cost of the sub alone is a worry for anyone maybe playing video games isn't for them.

Other problem is, if you only play for a few hours every few days you're less likely to buy cosmetics so how much money are the devs making from super casuals like that? nothing at all. When we get to the stage in wow where the entire budget Blizzard have comes solely from cosmetics the game will go to complete and utter shit.

[Celement]

It's a tough argument to have honestly. A sub game should be a premium feature without a cash shop or additional services. In this model I would argue it is more consumer friendly then a f2p model.

I don't really know a mmo beyond oldschool runescape that has that model though.

F2P when it doesn't offer gameplay advantages is more consumer friendly and usually makes more profit then a sub does to the company. It arguably does target gamblers and the cash shop almost always has better cosmetics then anything earnable in game by design. In wows case the rule of thumb is cash shop cosmetics are on average at least one expansion ahead of anything else in game quality wise

( note when I say quality I mean details and effects something quantifiable not personal taste on if you enjoy the look).

I think for multiplayer games f2p with cosmetics are the future it's just been to successful not to be.

[WowIsDead64]

Yea, sub fee is part of FOMO problem for me. If game would be free, may be I wouldn't care about taking breaks and not playing more often, that would be better in long term. But, I guess, Blizzard try to use money as some sort of barrier. When game is made free, devs have to think too much about preventing players from making 100500 smurf accounts.

[Hotmail]

Nah WoW is still one of the cheapest forms of entertainment out there. A 90 minute movie at the theater is 15 bucks, while a sub lasts a whole month.

He plans to mainly make money from cosmetic items from the ingame shop e.g. weapon skins, hero skins, mounts etc while the game stays Free to Play.

That sounds like a horrible model, especially considering how, right now, new MMOs tend to spike up really hard for a few weeks then crash and burn afterward in terms of playerbase. New World would have been a catastrophic failure if it had been free to play.

[Lochton]

Rather have the current model than the alternative. One step down, and you have SWTOR, one step up, and you have FFXIV. Both having bloated stores, much more, and much worse than WoW's.

[Malcho]

As the acquisition matures, count on seeing season patches that must be bought. The sub will be dropped, but you will pay for patches this or next expansion.

[Airlick]

Of course it is outdated. F2P games earn way more money from cosmetics and utilities like boosts than a sub. You also don't lose players simply because they don't want to risk the initial cost of entry B2P+sub games have. On the other hand, you also miss out on the initial revenue boost at launch and we've had a ton of MMORPGs crash and burn right after launch, barely paying off or not even. But then that's because most of them sucked. So if your game is bad and you know it, you want to do some hardcore marketing right before launch and cash out with B2P+sub model. If your game is good and you have a long-term plan to keep the players playing, F2P is better both for the company and the players.

[McNeil]

I’m surprised the game still hasn’t dropped the sub by now. Its one thing that keeps a lot of people from playing and even trying the game, these people could be spending way more money on MTX and would keep the game more alive. They once said it’s to cover up for server costs which IMO should be cut down by a lot aswell.

[Nerph-]

I used to believe that the sub fee was a barrier stopping Blizzard from adding more predatory stuff to the cash shop, however with the WoW token already around for a few expansions now letting you buy gold (and therefore letting you essentially use real money for anything you can buy with gold), I'd definitely not be against them dropping the sub and making the game b2p.

As already pointed out in the thread, other games do it just fine.

[ablib]

Everything is a sub model now. Not sure why people think subs are outdated.

Subscriptions are so ingrained now, my Discover card tells me that Netflix raised their monthly fee and if I want a view of all my subscriptions, and see if I want to cancel any.

Paying for content separately is what is outdated. The box fee for the game needs to go. If Blizzard started advertising that anyone can get into WoW to try, for free for the first 30 days, ALL content available in the game (including Classic and current expansion), with no other box fee, subs would shoot through the roof. Especially this late in the game. Back in the day, buying BC, Wrath, or Cata was no question, nowadays, people may be hesitant about that up front cost.

Historically, the box fee is what pays for content (not the sub, like most people think). Where Netflix, all of their content is funded through their subscriptions.

Charging for content separately doesn't work anymore in 2022. This would be like if Netflix charged us 19.99 a month for their service, but at the same time, charged us 2.99 per episode of Stranger Things as a separate fee. Netflix would tank if they did that.

[Kathranis]

There's more money to be had in a F2P model with battle passes and microtransactions. Whether that means more value for players is another matter entirely.

[Nerph-]

Everything is a sub model now. Not sure why people think subs are outdated.

Subscriptions are so ingrained now, my Discover card tells me that Netflix raised their monthly fee and if I want a view of all my subscriptions, and see if I want to cancel any.

Paying for content separately is what is outdated. The box fee for the game needs to go. If Blizzard started advertising that anyone can get into WoW to try, for free for the first 30 days, ALL content available in the game (including Classic and current expansion), with no other box fee, subs would shoot through the roof. Especially this late in the game. Back in the day, buying BC, Wrath, or Cata was no question, nowadays, people may be hesitant about that up front cost.

Historically, the box fee is what pays for content (not the sub, like most people think). Where Netflix, all of their content is funded through their subscriptions.

Charging for content separately doesn't work anymore in 2022. This would be like if Netflix charged us 19.99 a month for their service, but at the same time, charged us 2.99 per episode of Stranger Things as a separate fee. Netflix would tank if they did that.

Your point about the box fee needing to go is also a valid option in my opinion. Either the sub fee or box price should go.

[cuafpr]

F2P with a shop plays off FOMO with limited-time items, and the season passes do the same. I'd much rather have a sub myself. Or maybe a hybrid where if you have a sub you get the cosmetic stuff for free, and others can be F2P and buy stuff if they want 2? In the end 15.00, a month is cheap; adjusted to modern dollars its about 25.00 per google.

[Coldkil]

I think it was outdated already some years ago.

It's a matter of fact that the "mobile" monetization model (f2p with mtx) is nowadays way more rewarding, revenue is through the roof. The issue with sub is that it creates a barrier of entry for new players, especially now that there are plenty of options to play.

Yes, we're ised to see these kind of games being shitty p2w stuff, but it's also true that even if majority of the accounts don't spend a dime, the ones who spend dish out insane amounts of money.

I don't know if i want wow to change monetization model, because of the possible consequences.

[Myradin]

Yea, sub fee is part of FOMO problem for me. If game would be free, may be I wouldn't care about taking breaks and not playing more often, that would be better in long term. But, I guess, Blizzard try to use money as some sort of barrier. When game is made free, devs have to think too much about preventing players from making 100500 smurf accounts.

Everything is FOMO for you.

And if you don't think free to play games have FOMO problems, you haven't played a free to play game. F2P games want you to SPEND SPEND SPEND.

[StillMcfuu]

Considering how bad F2P games are along with the bad communities, I prefer games to have a bar for entry.