Buffed Naxxramas Will Backfire, Disaster Ahead!

[Battlebeard]

oof, granted i missed T5 but im still surprised people disbanded over it. but to get ontopic, i dont think you need to worry about naxx really, it will be easily puggable. i think people will even pug ToC and ICC HC this time around even

I really hope you are right. People forget in this thread, that the disaster I speak of is nothing I hope for. I WANT to be wrong here, I really, really do.

Nothing I want more than to pug Naxx, I love the raid

But spending 3 hours a day begging leaders for invite and when you finally do, you wipe on the third boss and disband, that's just depressing, and what I fear has a realistic chance of happening.

[w0nderd0g]

Getting rejected by a Naxx PUG leader will be more to do with the (sadly) change of player attitudes over the years, and the rise of elitists leads looking for an easy ride.

I fully pug tanked Naxx on my pala back in WOTLK without any of the gear optimization guidance (e.g. info on best enchants, gems, rep rewards, stats etc) freely available to players today - I don't even think I was hitting the DEF cap... , had no shoulder enchants, all green gems, pretty mediocre dungeon gear etc.

Honestly, I don't think difficulty will be the issue - at least not for groups in heroic dungeon equivalent gear. Those expecting to walk in with ilvl 150 quest greens might struggle more - but that should never have been viable in the first place, and thats what the buff is intended to address.

Mechanically, other than 2-3 bosses, Naxx is pretty damn simple as well.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I really hope you are right. People forget in this thread, that the disaster I speak of is nothing I hope for. I WANT to be wrong here, I really, really do.

Nothing I want more than to pug Naxx, I love the raid

But spending 3 hours a day begging leaders for invite and when you finally do, you wipe on the third boss and disband, that's just depressing, and what I fear has a realistic chance of happening.

I've never played Wrath before. I didn't play Classic. My first two Naxx pugs have both resulted in comfortable full clears despite a couple of wipes.

[Makaloff]

I really hope you are right. People forget in this thread, that the disaster I speak of is nothing I hope for. I WANT to be wrong here, I really, really do.

Nothing I want more than to pug Naxx, I love the raid

But spending 3 hours a day begging leaders for invite and when you finally do, you wipe on the third boss and disband, that's just depressing, and what I fear has a realistic chance of happening.

so now a few months down the line, the buff wasnt so bad was it? :P

[Dalinos]

so now a few months down the line, the buff wasnt so bad was it? :P

I mean...it's a Battlebeard thread. In his eyes, the sky is constantly falling, we are all doomed, any content that requires an ounce of communication with your fellow players is completely out of reach etc etc. He's the dude who self-proclaims himself to be the super casual player, yet openly admits he spends more than 8h/day playing. Make of all this what you will.

[NoiseTank13]

I've never played Wrath before. I didn't play Classic. My first two Naxx pugs have both resulted in comfortable full clears despite a couple of wipes.

Rasuvius and Patchwerk are the only ones that give my group problems.

Former because no one fucking Priests and the latter because people can't figure out how to prepare for his big meat cleaver on pull.

[Voidwielder]

I'm a Fire Mage who has been pugging Naxx since first week. Now sitting at 4k GS. Only Patches can give trouble but that can be avoided with 1 decent tank and 2 decent healers who can read the timers. The rest is literal snoozefest. We did it yesterday half AFKing on trash in 2 hours.

[Bigbazz]

The premise of this whole thread was hilarious because OP didn't consider that classes in patch 3.3.5 are like gods compared to classes in 3.0. It's like Warriors are the worst dps in the game and they still do as much or more dps than they did in 3.0 where they were one of the best dps in the game, and you only have to look at the list of patch notes throughout WOTLK to see why.

Naxx was always super easy, but this buffed version of Naxx accounting for the changes in classes compared to 3.0 is actually easier than it was in 2008, and it was pretty damn easy back then.

[SinR]

Naxx went fine.

[Celarent]

Looking back, I essentially had it squared:

So, the flipside of this is if the buff is only enough to keep most players from cruising through Day One of dinging, supergamerbros need to accept that it's not a worthy challenge for their world-class pedigree and get on with life.

Battlebeard said a lot of things, but since Blizzard didn't offer details at the time, it was worth thinking about players who demand content be made more and more difficult until no one but them can run it.

As it stands, Wrath is as expected a pug paradise. Nobody's listening to the "too easy" crowd because they're busy enjoying the game.

[AtomR]

wall of text

Reading this and seeing your arguments for playing classic as the same arguments that many people play retail. Retail is the casual version of the game where you don't need a guild, everything can be done solo or with automatic group finders.
I gave up classic vanilla and more recently classic wotlk BECAUSE everything takes way too damn long. It's a slog and a chore to go through those zones. I don't have time for that crap. So off I went back to retail.

And yeah, Naxx in the original wotlk was too easy because it had been so damn hard in vanilla so they under tuned it so people could see that content that no one had gotten around to in vanilla.

[FelPlague]

Rasuvius and Patchwerk are the only ones that give my group problems.

Former because no one fucking Priests and the latter because people can't figure out how to prepare for his big meat cleaver on pull.

For me the only issues have been razuv because of tanks not line of sighting.
And four horsemen cause ya know, it requires organization of who goes where. ,but once everyone knows their job it's ez, so usually takes 1-2 wipes in a pug before you arnt wiped in first 15 seconds, Nd then it's just a garuntee kill.

[Private Matters]

Reading this and seeing your arguments for playing classic as the same arguments that many people play retail. Retail is the casual version of the game where you don't need a guild, everything can be done solo or with automatic group finders.
I gave up classic vanilla and more recently classic wotlk BECAUSE everything takes way too damn long. It's a slog and a chore to go through those zones. I don't have time for that crap. So off I went back to retail.

And yeah, Naxx in the original wotlk was too easy because it had been so damn hard in vanilla so they under tuned it so people could see that content that no one had gotten around to in vanilla.

So you think the grinds in retail are less of a slog than classic ones because...reasons? Because one is a slog because you don't enjoy that part of the game and the other is intentionally built to be a slog so I don't know what you're on about, either you're arguing in bad faith or your opinion doesn't have any merit and you just wanted to somehow rationalize why you prefer retail over classic which no one asked for.

[AtomR]

So you think the grinds in retail are less of a slog than classic ones because...reasons? Because one is a slog because you don't enjoy that part of the game and the other is intentionally built to be a slog so I don't know what you're on about, either you're arguing in bad faith or your opinion doesn't have any merit and you just wanted to somehow rationalize why you prefer retail over classic which no one asked for.

Actually, my argument wasn't even countering in any way what the original poster was saying.
I was surprised for the first time to see someone arguing that classic is a casual experience for people with less time in their hands, that have grown older and that just don't have the same time they used to have.
Because classic was the response from Blizzard to people clamouring for a "golden age" when the game wasn't a face roll, where things actually took an effort to achieve and all that.
And I agree with that sentiment. I was there when Vanilla, TBC and WOTLK were fresh and new and can say for a fact that everything was created so that you took your time. Levelling took a while and even if you pushed through it to make is as fast as possible it was a dauting physically tiresome experience.
Rep took forever, levelling your weapons took forever, levelling professions took forever, gearing took forever. making parties took forever.
I'm not saying this was good or bad. It is what the game was. And I did in fact enjoy it back then.

Now, in MY old age, I prefer how optimized levelling has become that it takes you 3 or 4 days while not stressing. I had 4 alts at max level two weeks after shadowlands was out. Gearing up is done in a couple of days. Farming rep isn't as fast BUT you can't actually "farm" rep in the sense that you did in the older iterations of the game. Yes, they did add a lot of "systems" that you need to participate in to farm whatever currency it needs but even that is limited on the amount you can earn in any given time.

Again, I was only commenting on seeing a point of view contrary to what the usual opinions on these forums and the people I usually talk with is. That the retail version of the game is the not the casual friendly version of wow.

And yes no one asked for my opinion on this. But then again, no asked for yours and you decided to reply to it.

[Cracked]

Well this aged like milk. My casual dad guild got Immortal in week 5 of "buffed naxx".

[Seratox]

As you might know, Naxx in WotLK Classic will be buffed and harder than it was back in the day. Some people cheer for this, but I think this will be a HUGE disaster for the game.

This post didn't age well. Most players cleared Naxxramas in week 1-2 of the raid with greens lol

[Tonkaden]

Reading this and seeing your arguments for playing classic as the same arguments that many people play retail. Retail is the casual version of the game where you don't need a guild, everything can be done solo or with automatic group finders.
I gave up classic vanilla and more recently classic wotlk BECAUSE everything takes way too damn long. It's a slog and a chore to go through those zones. I don't have time for that crap. So off I went back to retail.

And yeah, Naxx in the original wotlk was too easy because it had been so damn hard in vanilla so they under tuned it so people could see that content that no one had gotten around to in vanilla.

Naxx is an hour and a half. You can get all 3 raids done on 25 man in 2 hours. 2 hours a week is too long? Maybe MMOs arent for you if 2 hours is too long for ya.

[Kralljin]

Again, I was only commenting on seeing a point of view contrary to what the usual opinions on these forums and the people I usually talk with is. That the retail version of the game is the not the casual friendly version of wow.

I think that is a one sided view, sure, if you are extremely hamstrung by time and can only play on a very irregular basis, Classic is not for you, it requires a modicum of time (altough it's not like THAT much, especially in Wotlk where most things are a lot faster).

However, it being easier and rarely having mandatory grinds (as in, they are required for critical upgrades) is a factor that makes Classic also more casual friendly in different ways.
If you're a casual player but still wants to have a reasonable shot at getting BiS items, then Classic is objectively more friendlier because you can actually get pretty solid items without engaging in rather time consuming content because the difficulty in Classic simply requires no such commitments.

It has also been easier to maintain character past a certain point, leveling is a big hurdle in Classic but once you're over that, you had rarely anything to grind on your character, it's just: Get better gear, which is the basic progression loop in WoW.

What it comes down to is what sort of casual you are, if you can only play very irregularly or just want to experience the content and then quit, Retail is much better.
But if you can every once in a while invest some hours but then dial it back and switch over to play a few hours once per week within an organized group (such as a guild), Classic is better suited because the power progression is much more statisfying (at least in my opinion) as the powergap between a more hardcore player and a casual aren't as great because the super highend difficulties don't exist.

And yes no one asked for my opinion on this. But then again, no asked for yours and you decided to reply to it.

While saying "no one asked for your opinion" is pretty much always kneejerk reaction on a forum, retorting that is equally stupid.

People put out there opinions on the forum to discuss them, hardly anyone ever asks for a specific opinion, this goes both ways.

[AtomR]

Naxx is an hour and a half. You can get all 3 raids done on 25 man in 2 hours. 2 hours a week is too long? Maybe MMOs arent for you if 2 hours is too long for ya.

I didn't in any place complained about Naxx taking too long. MMOs aren't for me, indeed. But WOWis and has been for 17 years, even if I, for argument's sake, didn't like playing them for two hours. Which you totally assumed out of nothing I said.

- - - Updated - - -

While saying "no one asked for your opinion" is pretty much always kneejerk reaction on a forum, retorting that is equally stupid.

The irony in this remark. AHAHH Seriously I'm not even mad that people are focusing on the wrong part of my post or interpreting as the opposite of what I mean.
I'll take this is as opportunity to try and improve my communication skills, and as a lesson to not engage in forums.

[Kralljin]

The irony in this remark. AHAHH Seriously I'm not even mad that people are focusing on the wrong part of my post or interpreting as the opposite of what I mean.

Considering you solely replied to a single sentence from an entire post that is largely dedicated to your actual point, i think you should take the hint about "irony".