IT'S TIME FOR A DEATH BATTLE! The Lich King Vs Sauron

[Shadowferal]

Sauron calls down meteors...when did that happen? Because I'm reasonably certain that should have happened before Isildur gave Sauron a manicure.

[Nathreim]

Sauron calls down meteors...when did that happen? Because I'm reasonably certain that should have happened before Isildur gave Sauron a manicure.

Its in Shadows of Mordor its not canon.

[Magical Mudcrab]

You're severely underestimating Sauron, even if you only consider his Ring-less form in the Lord of the Rings timeline he's still a force of malice and pure will that is simply beyond that of The Lich King.

His disembodied form is a near impotent force that relies fully on the subservience of others to maintain his influence. It took him thousands of years to even create an environment where summoning a semi-corporeal form as the Necromancer of Dol Guldur was feasible and was able to try to search for the Ring again through the Nazgul. Clearly this ideation of Sauron's disembodied form being some super powerful, undefeatable being is nonsense. His incorporeal form is impotent and always has been, even being described as such in the books once his ability to regain a corporeal body is lost. That is, the eventual destruction of the ring did not diminish the power of his incorporeal form, but made it so that he could never regain the strength (i.e.: wield the power he had put into it) to become corporeal again and made the power he did expend wasted effort. This is because of one of the incontrovertible truths of power in Middle Earth: once you use power, it's gone. Every action Sauron takes in his incorporeal form irreversibly diminishes him, and he would simply get weaker and weaker until he was in the same state he was in at the end of the LotR series: a disembodied soul, unable to act but bound forever to Middle Earth until the end of time.

[Lollis]

I've written this earlier, but Sargeras is a dumb character that feels like he was made by a 4 year old - "I'm gonna make a guy that's the size of a whole planet, and he just floats around in space holding a big sword cutting planets in half!"

Just cause a character is more powerful doesn't mean he's a good character.

And I never suggested this. He's more powerful than the Valar, that's all. It says nothing about his story, his character, or his alignment in any universe. I don't know what the issue is.

Superman is a more powerful character than Batman, it doesn't mean that his origin story isn't stupid as fuck.

Sauron got beat by a dog

*A dog that was rendered magic and poison immune by the Valar themselves and made immortal by prophecy.

unable to act but bound forever to Middle Earth until the end of time.

Correction: Bound to the void.

Regardless, Sauron's folly was the cause of his defeat against the last alliance and putting so much of his power into the ring is WHY it took him so long to regain any of his strength. You are misunderstanding the universe and what is meant by corporeal form, and particularly 'spirits', they are not the same as 'just a ghost' that we'd say for other universes.

Sauron is Maia, a spirit of pure power that was corrupted by Melkor. When he travelled to Middle Earth he took physical form and eventually encapsulates much of his power into the Ring as a way to control others (via the rings of power.) The Ring works by connecting Sauron's power directly to things he has made which turns them into beacons so to speak where his power of control and corruption can work itself more easily.

Putting so much of his power into the Ring weakened him so that he could not take physical form BUT, he still has his innate corporeality which is power in and of itself.

What we'd call a soul DOES exist in the universe, but they are explicitly separate spirits called fea which are connected to a physical body called a hroa. Sauron's situation is just himself taking forms however he wishes (which is also likely the reason he could transform at will.)

[Posterville]

sauron is always winning man

[Magical Mudcrab]

Correction: Bound to the void.

Regardless, Sauron's folly was the cause of his defeat against the last alliance and putting so much of his power into the ring is WHY it took him so long to regain any of his strength. You are misunderstanding the universe and what is meant by corporeal form, and particularly 'spirits', they are not the same as 'just a ghost' that we'd say for other universes.

Sauron is Maia, a spirit of pure power that was corrupted by Melkor. When he travelled to Middle Earth he took physical form and eventually encapsulates much of his power into the Ring as a way to control others (via the rings of power.) The Ring works by connecting Sauron's power directly to things he has made which turns them into beacons so to speak where his power of control and corruption can work itself more easily.

Putting so much of his power into the Ring weakened him so that he could not take physical form BUT, he still has his innate corporeality which is power in and of itself.

What we'd call a soul DOES exist in the universe, but they are explicitly separate spirits called fea which are connected to a physical body called a hroa. Sauron's situation is just himself taking forms however he wishes (which is also likely the reason he could transform at will.)

Sure, lets accept all of this. What does this change regarding the situation Sauron is in? Once he is separated from the ring, he's still not much more than a malicious presence who is described as impotent within the books once his prospects for regaining his power are dashed. This is still someone who is, at best, a slowly fading nuisance who will continue to irreversibly weaken the more power they expend, and is at worst just a presence - something you know is there but is unable to actually do anything.

The point is that once Sauron is brought to this state, the fight is over. There is no meaningful recovery case to be made here for Sauron, especially given that regardless of whether the ring could be destroyed, Sauron will take thousands of years to recover to the extent that we see in the LotR series. This means he would take thousands of years to simply become a presence in the world again, whereas the Lich King would have thousands of years to expand his power. There is no realistic case in which Sauron turns things around if he is initially beaten.

[Coolface330]

Fights like these,

the author usually weaves a tale around their power, their birth, their growth, their peak, and their downfall.

The unbeatable Lich King, beaten by a fluke during a moment of weakness.

The unbeatable Sauron, beaten by a gamble during a moment of weakness.

But, since the Lich King was designed newer, I'ma assume he'd win. Unless Tolkien wouldn't of died, and lived to this very day, and chisseled out Sauron's details even better but didn't.

Will the Lich King chop off pieces of Sauron's soul and dominate it piece by piece?

Will Sauron's temptation of the ring overpower the temptation of the Crown?

All at the whim of the author's story direction.

My take*

[Varodoc]

Sauron's greatest trait was always his extraordinary manipulation capabilities.

This is the entity who went from prisoner to chief priest and advisor of the greatest kingdom of men, turning it against their own Gods and convincing them to invade the Heavens.

Sauron is definitely far more cunning, deceptive, and manipulative than a simple human like Arthas. Regardless, his main shtick is manipulation, not fighting.

I can see Arthas win a direct brawl, but give Sauron some prep time to lay the seeds of influence in Arthas' mind, and he can 100% corrupt him. Arthas is a spoilt arrogant brat, like the King of Numenor, who Sauron also corrupted after some time.

He is literally called "The Deceiver". I don't remember Arthas ever being called "Deceiver", which was a title used for Kil'jaeden in-universe. I don't see how Arthas resists manipulation if you give Sauron some time (months, years...) to orchestrate Arthas' fall into servitude.