Would Garrosh winning really be that bad?

[Syegfryed]

Again: irrelevant. It's irrelevant because, as I pointed out numerous times already, Garrosh willingly and eagerly drank the power that came from the old god Y'shaarj fully aware of the corruption it brings.

Its relevant because is not the same thing, one thing is done not by him, because he was controlled and the other is done by himself conscious and fully aware

that is literally difference between him and grom in wc3 that they double down later

[Ielenia]

Its relevant because is not the same thing, one thing is done not by him, because he was controlled and the other is done by himself conscious and fully aware

that is literally difference between him and grom in wc3 that they double down later

No, it's not relevant. Because it is "done by him" since Garrosh was fully aware of the consequences prior to accepting the power and the corruption it brings. There's no shirking of responsibility here. Garrosh is fully responsible for everything he did since he unearthed the heart of Y'shaarj.

[Jastall]

Garrosh was confirmed not to be old-god corrupted, so this whole discussion is pointless.
At this point if you are arguing this fact you are making up head-canon. You might not like this but this is canon.

As for in-universe: The void is not impossible to resist. It takes willpower. We have a whole race of elves who are constantly being whispered to even.

Garrosh was an individual with extremely potent willpower.
As we can see he not only resisted old-god corruption BUT even kept it together after a very long time of torture in Torghast.
His pride and rage kept him sane basically.

You don't need to be entirely corrupted to a pawn. Azshara, Gul'dan, the Lich Kings, all were very powerful and strong-willed people that were pawns to greater powers. If Garrosh could not serve as a slave, he'd serve as a proxy, and was already well on his way there given his reliance on the Heart's visions, alliance with the Mantid, and infusing Orcs with as much Old God juju as he could find.

[Garymorilix]

You don't need to be entirely corrupted to a pawn. Azshara, Gul'dan, the Lich Kings, all were very powerful and strong-willed people that were pawns to greater powers. If Garrosh could not serve as a slave, he'd serve as a proxy, and was already well on his way there given his reliance on the Heart's visions, alliance with the Mantid, and infusing Orcs with as much Old God juju as he could find.

wtf does that even mean?
You don't have to be corrupted to serve someone's goals, either knowingly or unknowingly? Yea, no shit.

What does that have to do with Garrosh canonically not being corrupted? Absolutely nothing.

[Kithelle]

Sure every other race and culture gets wiped out but consider this in the grand scheme of things if Garrosh remains in control of the sha then it means that Azeroth will recover in time and thus be able to mount a defence against old gods and burning legion alike with the high birth rate of the orcs it means that both kalimdor and the eastern kingdom will be colonized by orcs in no time at all and perhaps even northrend too. Coupled with a influx of orcs from alternate draenor getting invited it means they'd truly have an unstoppable army against cosmic threats. I assume this is what wrathion envisioned.
Of course the everyone else getting wiped out is bad but this is just a thought experiment because honestly i think it's really viable due to how hardy and fast reproducing orcs are.

Would it really be so bad if brown Hitler won? Especially when he was under control of one of the forces you claimed he'd be fighting?

Answer "should" be obvious

[masterjc]

Sure every other race and culture gets wiped out but consider this in the grand scheme of things if Garrosh remains in control of the sha then it means that Azeroth will recover in time and thus be able to mount a defence against old gods and burning legion alike with the high birth rate of the orcs it means that both kalimdor and the eastern kingdom will be colonized by orcs in no time at all and perhaps even northrend too. Coupled with a influx of orcs from alternate draenor getting invited it means they'd truly have an unstoppable army against cosmic threats. I assume this is what wrathion envisioned.
Of course the everyone else getting wiped out is bad but this is just a thought experiment because honestly i think it's really viable due to how hardy and fast reproducing orcs are.

1. read short story "Blank Scroll"
it shows possible future, where Garrosh wins with this magic item, "blank scroll" (so he does not need any Sha power), in this future, all are defeated and Garrosh reigns supreme, yet first Naga invade, than Legion and no one manages to defend Azeroths
thus Garrosh's win without Sha power = Azeroth's defeat

2. Garrosh used Sha powers and became almost obsessed with Old Gods, he was willing make his own forces corrupted by sha (blademaster Mag'Har, which ally players kill, and Blackrock orc who serves as raid boss). and in his visions (yeah, these were Old God's promises, yet he seemed to be OK with it) he managed to defeat Ally and Horde leaders (aka kill/enslave probably half of horde alongside alliance), have world or at least part of it corrupted by Old God powers


so both cases it's shitty outcome

[Varodoc]

I still find it funny that people in this thread say "Nooo Blizzard stated Garrosh was in control!!! It's Word of God!!! You can't ignore it!!!", but then these same people ignore the fact that this was retconned in favour of Alleria.

It's stated by Word of God that the Ren'dorei Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal to defy the Shadows' whispers. NOT Garrosh Hellscream.

Many have sought to harness the corruptive magic of the Void. Most who tried have fallen into madness. Determined to use this power for the good of Azeroth, Alleria Windrunner is the first mortal to succeed at defying the shadow's whispers. Coming to the aid of a group of her kin who nearly gave in to the darkness, Alleria has vowed to train these Void elves to control the shadows within them and pledge their newfound powers to the Alliance.

https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/game/races/void-elf

Garrosh was always just a puppet, a slave of Y'Shaarj, and nothing more. He was dancing to the Old God's tune the entire time (as evidenced by his megalomaniac belief in the visions show to him by the ancient heart).

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Would make for a awesome What If Marvel style.

Garrosh with the Heart of Y'shaarj would be nearly unstoppable. The great Y'shaarj could probably warn him about non mundane threats like the Infinite and the Jailor etc. Garrosh empowered by Y'shaarj's heart could go through time and solo Deathwing, Archimonde, and even Kil'jaeden by himself. For stronger foes like Murozond, Primalists, Galakrond's, Azshara, Lich King, N'zoth, and the Jailor. Garrosh would need to resurrect Y'shaarj to beat them.

Once Y'shaarj is bought back, nothing would be able to stop the True Horde besides Sargeras but all Y'shaarj needs to do is corrupt and get Azeroth's powers to destroy him. Y'shaarj would rule the cosmos with a iron fist with Garrosh as his champion and the True Y'shaarj empowered Horde as his cosmic army.

[LemonDemonGirl]

Dude, he was using the power of an Old God. Y'know, the beings that whisper and make people go crazy? Yeah...
Also, have you SEEN the impaled leaders in the Alliance harbor during his fight?

If he would've won, there'd be no more WoW.

- - - Updated - - -

Yes. Yes, it does. Because if Alleria is the first mortal, then that means Garrosh, who is also a mortal, was not able to resist the corruption of the old gods. This isn't about 'feelings', this is about facts.

No matter how you scream and cry about it.

Not to be 'that person' but wouldn't whoever found Xala'tah first technically be the first mortal to get corrupted?

[Jastall]

wtf does that even mean?
You don't have to be corrupted to serve someone's goals, either knowingly or unknowingly? Yea, no shit.

What does that have to do with Garrosh canonically not being corrupted? Absolutely nothing.

Him being corrupted or not is what's largely a pointless issue, I'd argue. He was serving the Old Gods either way, corruption or not, and the Heart definitely had some influence on him given that it was only when he has it that he raves about visions, prophecy and the powers of the Old One. Not before, not after. He probably had too much willpower to be made a gibbering tentacled lunatic, at least for a long while, but Garrosh with the Heart was still not quite the same as Garrosh without.

[Garymorilix]

Him being corrupted or not is what's largely a pointless issue, I'd argue. He was serving the Old Gods either way, corruption or not, and the Heart definitely had some influence on him given that it was only when he has it that he raves about visions, prophecy and the powers of the Old One. Not before, not after. He probably had too much willpower to be made a gibbering tentacled lunatic, at least for a long while, but Garrosh with the Heart was still not quite the same as Garrosh without.

There is no issue. He canonically wasn't.
As I said, for the 3rd time now, this is not a point of opinion. This is not something you can talk around. It was laid out plain and simple.
And as I said, any further comment on this matter is head-canon. Therefore, those I will ignore.

How was he serving any old god? Directly, indirectly, willingly, unwillingly or in any way?
He was literally just using their power.
Did he receive visions? Yes. So did Anduin when N'zoth was released. Everyone does. That's an Old God thing. Receiving a vision is not being corrupted.

He was a bloodthirsty maniac before, during and after.
He just liked what he saw in his vision.

You can stop with this serving bullshit now.
Everyone's been 'serving' the Jailers schemes all this time, so everybody's corrupted and Zovaal's pawn.
There, that's your logic. Utterly non-sensical.

[Jastall]

There is no issue. He canonically wasn't.
As I said, for the 3rd time now, this is not a point of opinion. This is not something you can talk around. It was laid out plain and simple.
And as I said, any further comment on this matter is head-canon. Therefore, those I will ignore.

How was he serving any old god? Directly, indirectly, willingly, unwillingly or in any way?
He was literally just using their power.
Did he receive visions? Yes. So did Anduin when N'zoth was released. Everyone does. That's an Old God thing. Receiving a vision is not being corrupted.

He was a bloodthirsty maniac before, during and after.
He just liked what he saw in his vision.

You can stop with this serving bullshit now.
Everyone's been 'serving' the Jailers schemes all this time, so everybody's corrupted and Zovaal's pawn.
There, that's your logic. Utterly non-sensical.

Acting according to those visions is definitely serving them to a large degree. Call me when Anduin starts infusing his soldiers with Old God juice until they become feral, allies with the Mantid, willingly discards Shalla'mayne (sp?) for an Old God version, and makes plans that include using the visions as guidance rather than warning (like, say, how Wrathion and the PC used the visions in BFA).

It's the Azshara issue. Sure, she wasn't mind controlled at all. But she still acted in accordance to N'zoth's will, even as she probably told herself it was an equal partnership for mutual benefit. It really wasn't. That's not how OGs roll. Garrosh wasn't corrupted, and it doesn't matter.

[Garymorilix]

Acting according to those visions is definitely serving them to a large degree. Call me when Anduin starts infusing his soldiers with Old God juice until they become feral, allies with the Mantid, willingly discards Shalla'mayne (sp?) for an Old God version, and makes plans that include using the visions as guidance rather than warning (like, say, how Wrathion and the PC used the visions in BFA).

It's the Azshara issue. Sure, she wasn't mind controlled at all. But she still acted in accordance to N'zoth's will, even as she probably told herself it was an equal partnership for mutual benefit. It really wasn't. That's not how OGs roll. Garrosh wasn't corrupted, and it doesn't matter.

Garrosh never served anyone but himself.
That's the whole point of his character. He literally says this after countless time of torture in Torghast.

Also, idk what kinda fantasy you're living but Azshara literally conspired all this time to have N'zoth killed.
Which, by the way, she succeeded in. She is free and N'zoth is dead.

[Jastall]

Garrosh never served anyone but himself.
That's the whole point of his character. He literally says this after countless time of torture in Torghast.

Also, idk what kinda fantasy you're living but Azshara literally conspired all this time to have N'zoth killed.
Which, by the way, she succeeded in. She is free and N'zoth is dead.

He served their purposes whenever it was willingly or not. That's the point of what I'm saying, the corruption does not matter. It's the same thing as, say, Doomhammer who served the Legion's purposes even as he actively worked to minimize its influence among the Horde and was as uncorrupted as Orcs got in those times. Not enough, sadly.

More or less entirely by chance RE Azshara. N'zoth knew she was conspiring against him, worked it in his plans, and had we not saved her ass she'd have been tortured for eternity for her defiance.

And much as I usually don't agree with that other poster, they're right in saying Alleria was declared the first mortal to defy the Void's whispers. And that's basically the same sources that say Garrosh wasn't corrupted, before any talks of headcanon happen.

[Minikin]

Sure every other race and culture gets wiped out but consider this in the grand scheme of things if Garrosh remains in control of the sha then it means that Azeroth will recover in time and thus be able to mount a defence against old gods and burning legion alike with the high birth rate of the orcs it means that both kalimdor and the eastern kingdom will be colonized by orcs in no time at all and perhaps even northrend too. Coupled with a influx of orcs from alternate draenor getting invited it means they'd truly have an unstoppable army against cosmic threats. I assume this is what wrathion envisioned.
Of course the everyone else getting wiped out is bad but this is just a thought experiment because honestly i think it's really viable due to how hardy and fast reproducing orcs are.

His encounter proved that he infact was not capable nor was ever in control of the corruption.

As for the rest. Well. The Jailers story kind of wiped all that out regardless. The big bad threat wasn't the void, it was the Jailer. Well...until even he said the ominious "what is to come.....TM"

The whole orc thing sounds great and all, but let's face it. Even with a brand new timeline they still chose to drink the felblood. No other race was offered a second chance. They were.

[Syegfryed]

His encounter proved that he infact was not capable nor was ever in control of the corruption.

the encounter not just proves that but the devs words after that was asked proved he was in perfect control and was using the power like a hammer.

Would still be able to do it if he keeps doing? no, but that is not the issue here.

The whole orc thing sounds great and all, but let's face it. Even with a brand new timeline they still chose to drink the felblood. No other race was offered a second chance. They were.

Only a few chose to do that, a few doing it do NOT condem the whole race.

This idea is just bogus when you have Draeneis who escaped argus and still chose to get corrupted later on and join with the Legion, or elves who did that, or hell, even humans did, but everyone conveniently ignores then

There is bad people in every race, there is people that chose the demons, in every race, fucking taurens did in Legion

[Minikin]

the encounter not just proves that but the devs words after that was asked proved he was in perfect control and was using the power like a hammer.

Would still be able to do it if he keeps doing? no, but that is not the issue here.




Only a few chose to do that, a few doing it do NOT condem the whole race.

This idea is just bogus when you have Draeneis who escaped argus and still chose to get corrupted later on and join with the Legion, or elves who did that, or hell, even humans did, but everyone conveniently ignores then

There is bad people in every race, there is people that chose the demons, in every race, fucking taurens did in Legion

None of the races you mentioned had an alternate timeline.

Orcs literally got a dude come from the future to say "yo man watch out!"

They listened to him for:
1. Making siege weapons
2. Military advancement
3. Invasion planning

But don't you dare stop us from touchnh the green koolaid!

As for the whole "use it like a hammer". The guy is literally a purple tumor in the heroic final phase.

[Syegfryed]

None of the races you mentioned had an alternate timeline.

We literally saw the draenei of the alternative timeline doing

yet, what does this matter?

Orcs literally got a dude come from the future to say "yo man watch out!"

They listened to him for:
1. Making siege weapons
2. Military advancement
3. Invasion planning


But don't you dare stop us from touchnh the green koolaid!

They literally did, they hear him, and did not get corrupted, they killed manoroth and imprisoned Gul'dan

what game did you played?


You want to talk about a few outcasts like Deadeye? mortais with thirst of power that follow the Legion? that happens to every race, that literally brings my point of trying to condem the whole race because a few. But you don't do the same with draeneis or elves, who did the same.

Poin towards Grom who corrupt himself twice in the original timeline and refuse to do in the alternate timeline, twice

As for the whole "use it like a hammer". The guy is literally a purple tumor in the heroic final phase.

And turn right back as his normal form when the fight ended.

Yet, you are still ignoring canon.

[Minikin]

We literally saw the draenei of the alternative timeline doing

yet, what does this matter?


They literally did, they hear him, and did not get corrupted, they killed manoroth and imprisoned Gul'dan

what game did you played?


You want to talk about a few outcasts like Deadeye? mortais with thirst of power that follow the Legion? that happens to every race, that literally brings my point of trying to condem the whole race because a few. But you don't do the same with draeneis or elves, who did the same.

Poin towards Grom who corrupt himself twice in the original timeline and refuse to do in the alternate timeline, twice

when did a draenei go back in time to warn their race?

doesnt matter if its an outcast or not. result was the same. they drank it regardless.

And turn right back as his normal form when the fight ended.

Yet, you are still ignoring canon.

he used void powers in a fight as he got his ass handed to him.

eventually lost total control, because for all his bluster, still got his ass handed to him.

didnt matter at the end anyway. got his ass handed to him.

all that fight and instance proved was that he never had control in the first place.

because if he did indeed have control, he wouldnt have failed so spectacularly.

[Utrrabbit]

The sha were literally fragments of old gods. He was serving them by thd end. Maybe not without his knowledge but he was corrupted

- - - Updated - - -

That's weird. I recall in MoP they mused that Garrosh WAS in control. Did they retcon it later?

He was never in control. It has never been said he was. Infact the opposite was said. He was 100% corrupted the moment he took the heart.